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Help Needed: Jackson hole for intermediate skiing

lmbotr825

Diva in Training
Hello a group of us are planning a possible trip to jackson hole. there are a mix of advanced and intermediate skiers. i would love the real down low on what to really expect for inermediate runs. i have read all kinds of things from its a great place for intermediates to dont bother unless you are gonna ski blacks. ive also read that there are no true intermediates most are double blues at best. . most importantly i have read that much of the so called intermediate terrain is composed of cat tracks, which in my opinion does not really constitute skiing! any advice would be great.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Would help to know where the intermediates have enjoyed skiing. An intermediate who enjoys long Colorado blues is quite different from an intermediate who skis blue/black groomers in the Mid-Atlantic.

I waited until I was an advanced skier comfortable on ungroomed black terrain out west (Alta, Big Sky) before planning a trip to JH. For me, it was a good decision. Apres Vous is the area where most intermediates would ski the most. Those groomers are relatively steep compared to blues at Alta. The way JH is spread out, a mixed ability group doesn't really have the option of skiing different trails off the same lift and meeting at the bottom. The cat tracks are how you get from one section of JH to another. Definitely not fun skiing for an intermediate. My friends and I had a good time, but we were all advanced skiers not worried about the steepness of the groomers and looking to get off-piste as much as possible. We didn't have good luck with snow conditions, but definitely got a feel for what JH has to offer.

I can think of several places that would be better for a mixed ability group. What timeframe are you thinking about? How long a trip? Staying slope side or more budget minded?
 

lmbotr825

Diva in Training
well my favorite out west trips are canyons park city and deer valley ( you can tell where im going with this lol) ! found the bowls in vail challenging but doable. enjoyed steamboat and breck too. completely competant on blues dble blues in all these resorts. wasnt a fan ofthe laketahoe resorts but that was a long time ago....not a powder skier hate to say it and i like wide open stuff with limited cat tracks. i ve been skiing all my life but im a bit of a scardy cat when confronted with narrow, bumps and rickedynchairlifts lol! my lifelong experience in icy overcrowded northeast terrain has resulted in injuries and accidents which havent helped any!!! thanks for your help!
 

lmbotr825

Diva in Training
btw we r mostly looking at jh cuz the airfare is CHEAP!!! we may try telluride and durango otherwise. i just love jh so much have been there summers several times and even worked nearby in yellowstone as a college student so alas i wish it was for me!
 

DeweySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The first trip I took to JH was when I was an advanced intermediate, and would agree with @marzNC that there is limited terrain for intermediates. I know they are really trying to push their intermediate terrain, but it will always be known for it's steeps and off piste terrain and will ultimately be more fun for advanced and expert skiers. It's also kind of intimidating because everyone there is so good. My SO is an expert boarder and I spend little to no time skiing with him when we go because of the way the mountain is set up. It's just not the best for mixed-ability groups. The second time I went I was more of a low-advanced skier and this definitely opened up some terrain for me. I took lessons both trips because I need someone else to push me into new terrain sometimes. Excellent ski school btw!

The runs of the Casper chair are decent but short. The runs of Apres Vous are technically blue but I think they are on the steep side of blue compared to other Western resorts, especially the pitch right off the top of the lift. The first year I went St. John's (the run) was groomed but the second year I went it was bumps. The Kemmerer run is black and not too bad (only from the Moran Traverse down; the new lift over there just opened this year).
 

RuthB

Angel Diva
@snoWYmonkey is the person to ask. She is an instructor at Jackson and is very accommodating with specific answers if you PM her. I think that she is familiar with some of the Utah resorts at least so may be able to compare terrain with other resorts.

My recollection of JH was that the intermediate terrain was not all cat tracks, but I am not the person to ask, since I honestly didn't take much notice of what runs were classified as.

Also, their women's camps cater to intermediates and judging from the movie from our camp they did not have any issues finding terrain.
 

2bjenny

Certified Ski Diva
@snoWYmonkey is definitely the person to ask. I have never skied Park City, Vail or Deer Valley, so I can't really compare, but I think you would be fine at JH. It is where I spend most of my time skiing and I do not in any way consider myself an expert skier, maybe high intermediate (but then women do tend do underrate themselves). I was a low intermediate (that's probably being generous) my first trip to JH, and loved it so much I traveled out here at least once a year until I moved to Idaho.

Anyways, I ski off all of the lifts at JH, and I am not terribly comfortable in bumps or deep powder (yet). Casper is a nice area for intermediates in addition to AV, and then Amphitheater off the Gondola. There are different ways to get around the mountain. I've also noticed that in an effort to make the terrain friendlier to intermediates/families, they are doing more grooming. I have not been over yet this year since only the AV lift was running until there is more snow (not sure if this has changed). The cat tracks are mostly used to get from one section of the mountain to another, there are plenty of blue and double blue trails. The only green trails are at the very bottom, off the Teewinot lift.

If you have a car, or take the shuttle, Targhee can make a nice change of pace for a day if you do indeed visit JH. It is a little more "friendlier" terrain, definitely less crowded, but still plenty of terrain to challenge everyone, just try to visit when it is not foggy.

I would recommend taking a lesson your first day, it can be a good way to be introduced to JH (if no one in your group has ever visited) with someone who knows the mountain and strategies for skiing the terrain. I can tell you that after skiing at JH, other places will look less steep for sure. Or, if you want, let me know when you visit, and I would be happy to ski with you and show you around some of the less steep areas. I'm happy just to ski!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
For a group of similar abilities, the pricing of "private" lessons at JH makes it very affordable since it's the same price for 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 people. Definitely a very good ski school for all levels even for group lessons.

JH was the first place I talked my two ski buddies into doing a lesson with me. What they learned from @snoWYmonkey in 4 hours made an impression. Before that, neither had paid for a lesson in a long time. The next season they were both interested in more semi-private lessons with experienced instructors (PSIA Level 3 or better, 15+ years teaching experience). We are all having more fun as a result.
 

DeweySki

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I forgot to say earlier that there have been many discussions about JH on this forum, which you can search in the upper right of the page, above your profile picture. Lots of good info.

I would agree with what has been mentioned above that the terrain for intermediates is good. It's just limited. There was way more for me as an intermediate in the Utah resorts I visited during that period (Alta & Solitude) and even some CO resorts. But all around I loved JH the most and now we make a yearly journey out there. Sorry if I'm sending mixed signals :smile:
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hello a group of us are planning a possible trip to jackson hole. there are a mix of advanced and intermediate skiers. i would love the real down low on what to really expect for inermediate runs. i have read all kinds of things from its a great place for intermediates to dont bother unless you are gonna ski blacks. ive also read that there are no true intermediates most are double blues at best. . most importantly i have read that much of the so called intermediate terrain is composed of cat tracks, which in my opinion does not really constitute skiing! any advice would be great.
Yikes, sorry, just now getting to the forum after a long summer absence. I can give you my opinion, which is only just that, but based on having skied with many students in the intermediate range.

Oh and a huge shout out to those of you who ask my to chime in. Makes my day to have some hopefully helpful information for fellow ski fanatics!

Do we have endless mellow blue terrain no. However, while probably a tad steeper than most, our blues and double blues are nice, long, almost all groomed and seldom too crowded. It is not true that the blues are cat tracks. However to get from the upper mountain (Tram - black only, and Sublette - one double blue) you will indeed have to traverse using cat tracks. Most of the blues and double blues however are off of Apres Vous, Casper, Kemmerer, and the Gondola, and there are definitely non cat track options for getting down to the base if double blues are ok for you.

While steeper than many resorts, in my fifteen years teaching, I have only really had two or three guests that would have been better served if we had had more gentle blues. Everyone else quickly improves and finds that with a lesson or two they become very comfortable managing their time on the mountain if they had any issues to begin with. If anything, I think that Jackson is a great place for riders/skiers to realize that they can enjoy more than they ever thought they would and suddenly they go from intermediate to thinking about off piste, trees, etc....

Let me know if there are any other questions I can answer for you. I hope you choose to come and don't regret the decision. I would be happy to provide you a list of my blue progression (which can vary based on conditions of course).
 

Rainbow Jenny

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks so much for the lift recommendations, @snoWYmonkey. I'm coming to JH with SO right before Christmas and have been concerned about where to take him. He's a solid intermediate and it's been like pulling tooth to get him excited about skiing the past 3 seasons. He's become an incredibly strong road cyclist this year though; I must remind myself to take it easy and allow him to build up some confidence and have fun. And the gift of a lesson is in order :thumbsup:
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That sounds pretty darned awesome. Turning out loved ones on to our own passions can be hard at times. There are daily free guided tours of the mountain which might be a good way to ease into things and get the lay of the land. Let's keep our fingers crossed for cold temps as the moisture is here!
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire

marzNC

Angel Diva
Thanks so much for the lift recommendations, @snoWYmonkey. I'm coming to JH with SO right before Christmas and have been concerned about where to take him. He's a solid intermediate and it's been like pulling tooth to get him excited about skiing the past 3 seasons. He's become an incredibly strong road cyclist this year though; I must remind myself to take it easy and allow him to build up some confidence and have fun. And the gift of a lesson is in order :thumbsup:
You might also consider letting him ski a little on his own after he has a favorite run or two. Then he can go his own pace without worrying about holding you up.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
@Rainbow Jenny : will you have a chance to go over to GT for a day? Assuming good visibility. The view from the top is easily accessible since can take the long green all the way down to the base. Just need to make sure the intermediate knows not to slow down too much at the little valleys that are followed up an up slope. It's fun to play around in the beginner/children's area for a few runs towards the end of the day.
 

Rainbow Jenny

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Good point, @marzNC. He previously insisted on following me and was immensely frustrated going down more challenging terrain. But our usual cycling routine allows him time to wander off and climb additional hills without me.

Perhaps he won't mind... But he can be competitive... I guess me too. :eek:
 

Rainbow Jenny

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
He is ASKING to go to GT since I raved about the spectacular view and fun skiing there. :yahoo:

We may have some flexibility in picking a day with better visibility. :banana:
 

veritasliberat

Certified Ski Diva
We all love @snoWYmonkey! :thumbsup: To add just a little of my personal experience and perspective to the good advice already offered... From what you say you are used to skiing, I think you'll find plenty you are comfortable with here. I admit that as someone who was just starting to ski black groomers in the mid atlantic (and not at all used to or comfortable with powder) I was slightly horrified the first time I skied JH... mostly at what seemed to be a really big jump in difficulty between the beginner trails and intermediate. That might be what people mean when they tell you there are no true intermediate options. But it's really just about figuring out which are the "easier" and which are more challenging. I wouldn't say it's a lack of intermediate terrain, so don't let that scare you off... but if you have someone in your group that is more of an advanced beginner just starting to try intermediate trails I do think it is true that they might be out of their comfort zone on the blues here. I wouldn't let that scare you away, either, it's just something to consider when you're planning your trip and maybe setting aside money for lessons. :smile:

If the others you are with are very serious and intense skiers and only want to ski the most advanced terrain they can all the time, then what others said is probably right that you might not have a lot of options off of the same lift. I do ski with friends who are more advanced than I am but who are very relaxed about their skiing, and we are able to take AV or Casper and then take different routes of varying difficulty down and meet up at the lift again.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Good point, @marzNC. He previously insisted on following me and was immensely frustrated going down more challenging terrain. But our usual cycling routine allows him time to wander off and climb additional hills without me.

Perhaps he won't mind... But he can be competitive... I guess me too. :eek:
Funny . . . when I started skiing more complex ungroomed terrain (steeper, bumps, trees) I would want a better skier to wait until I had a chance to get going. Meaning I had a personal "sweeper" in case anything happen, in particular if I lost a ski. Rarely had a problem but it gave me more confidence to ski a bit more aggressively. Once it was clear I was doing okay, I didn't mind if my ski buddy then skied past me to wait lower down. Worked out well.

Sometimes when I ski with friends who haven't skied new places much, I make them lead for a different reason. Used to do that to my daughter when she was a young tween. I wanted her to have practice deciding where to go and to pay attention to trail signs.
 

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