Is there a gender bias for unsolicited golf advice?

[Christy]

I think that's an example of the exception proving the rule. The boarding pass thing is super weird, but I've literally never my entire life heard a man say that women often give him unsolicited advice.

 

[MissySki]

Note:
This same discussion on SkiTalk has been really refreshing. Most of the men posting agree that its not cool to offer unsolicited advice. Some of the men have said, "I don't think I do that but now that you mention it, I'm going to pay attention and make sure I don't."

One man(really nice guy) sent me a private message. He said he didn't want to derail the thread so he politely sent me a note saying that he recently experienced the polar opposite.
He had a first class boarding pass for a flight and a woman in line with him questioned whether he was in the correct boarding group. He said yes, and she said, "Show me your boarding pass, I don't believe you're in the right group."

So, we women need to be aware of this too. I agree with him that it was none of her business and she had no right to question him or demand to see his boarding pass.
I mean.... who does that?

I would not take kindly to someone of either gender demanding to see my boarding pass if they are simply another passenger and not with the airline. That is extremely strange! I’d be telling them they need to mind their own business. Yikes.

 

[Christy]

This is why I think he is well meaning and lonely.

Sure, but as the recipient of unsolicited skiing advice from many an older gentlemen: why do I have to deal with their lack of socialization / social skills? Because they spent a lifetime doing this to women and no one pushed back, because they didn't want to be called a b****? I just don't have patience with this anymore and don't think "well meaning" counts for much. My husband and male friends don't do this; it's not inevitable. There are tons of retired male skiers and golfers out there. Why don't they find each other and just ski or golf without looking for women to badger?

 

[MissySki]

Something funny, or not so much I guess, but on the topic of lonely older men… At my ski condo this season I was often going up on Thursdays and coming back on Sundays. It’s very quiet in our building outside of the weekends, since not many live there full time or on weekdays in general. There are some retirees who spend the week there and leave on Friday for the weekends too.

Anyway, later in the season I went outside one Friday morning with my dog Sookie and we immediately saw this older guy packing his car up near the side door we use. I had not met him before. He called me over and I thought he was going to introduce himself or something, but instead he proceeds to tell me how he sees a lot of dog poop from a small dog left on the ground outside of his unit and looks pointedly at Sookie. I was quite taken aback, like I’m sorry did you just accuse me of leaving dog poop on the ground simply because you saw a stranger with a small dog… that’s quite bold in a building of 64 units with many dog owners. And YES we have a huge issue with irresponsible owners not picking up after their dogs or obeying leash rules… but I digress. I simply tried to be friendly and commiserated that yes it’s a big issue but no it’s not me or my dog leaving poop behind. I then proceeded to pull poop bags out of my pocket like see I’m all prepared, as always. And then I just made an exit. I was actually pretty annoyed the more I thought about it on our walk, and told my significant other about it when we returned too. But whatever.

Well, a couple of weeks later I come outside on a Friday morning and who do I see? Same guy loading his car again. Mind you, I was already in a bad mood from something else happening in my own life so I was already starting on a bad note. But I come outside and the guy AGAIN mentions dog poop… and I cannot literally believe I’m getting accused by this idiot AGAIN of something I don’t ever do. I think that’s the worst part is that I’m always mad about the people leaving poop behind and I am ALWAYS pick up after my dog no matter what. So this time I wasn’t placating, I very confidently said, “Sir, we’ve had this conversation and I’m NOT having it again. The poop is not from my dog, period, the end.” And I go to walk away, and he starts raising his voice at me and aggressively pointing to the dog waste station we have and I just lost it. I won’t go into what I said, but there was some go pound sand in a much less friendly way before I stormed off with Sookie.

At that point I’m like no I’m not getting harassed by this guy a third time… I’m reporting it to the property manager and board. I don’t know this guy and if he’s doing this to other people, but I basically wanted them to step in and tell this guy to leave me alone. Turns out he HAS had other complaints against him and from other women with small dogs. Hmmmm would he be running his mouth to a guy with a dog? I doubt it. If a man acts aggressively like that to another man he knows he might get more than he’s trying to bite off.

But very long story wrap up lol… I swear I had a point! Even with the history of this guy harassing other women, the property manager tried to tell me how she felt kind of bad for him because he didn’t have any family and was lonely. My response… as sad as that may be, perhaps there’s a reason he’s lonely if that’s how he behaves. I’m not sorry for sticking up for myself because the guy is lonely. Though I was surprised and proud of myself for not being walked over because I’m not usually confrontational if I can help it. He could have been a nice neighbor, actually introduced himself, and I’d be happy to chat skiing with him like I do with many other owners in our building. He could have trusted me when I said it wasn’t me and dropped it, or hey go set up a camera outside on your patio and catch the actual culprit so we can all shame them! So yeah, I guess my point is that we shouldn’t necessarily demonize the people kindly looking for some human contact when there are these others who more deserve the less than polite responses... I’d take an annoying person who can’t just take the social cue that I’m now getting back to the task at hand any day over the total a’hole who thinks he has the right to try and intimidate random women in the building I own a condo at.

 

[SnowHot]

Sure, but as the recipient of unsolicited skiing advice from many an older gentlemen: why do I have to deal with their lack of socialization / social skills? Because they spent a lifetime doing this to women and no one pushed back, because they didn't want to be called a b****? I just don't have patience with this anymore and don't think "well meaning" counts for much. My husband and male friends don't do this; it's not inevitable. There are tons of retired male skiers and golfers out there. Why don't they find each other and just ski or golf without looking for women to badger?

You don't have to tolerate unsolicited advice and frankly I don't. I will tell the person doling out advice "I'm good thanks"
I do tend to use sarcasm in some situations where the giver is persistent(which is really quite rare) I can also be a bit snarky in those moments.

And really, I don't know these people so I don't really care if they think I'm a bitch.
For the record I can assume he has good intentions(not a jerk) without tolerating the behavior.

RE: your husband and male friends don't do this...
See my earlier post about how refreshing it is to see what the men on SkiTalk are saying in the same thread.

Note:
This same discussion on SkiTalk has been really refreshing. Most of the men posting agree that its not cool to offer unsolicited advice. Some of the men have said, "I don't think I do that but now that you mention it, I'm going to pay attention and make sure I don't."

I think that's an example of the exception proving the rule. The boarding pass thing is super weird, but I've literally never my entire life heard a man say that women often give him unsolicited advice.

What I have heard from some men is that there are certain women who are entitled that don't necessarily give unsolicited advice but they can be intrusive or judgy, similar to the situation about the boarding pass I mentioned.

Example: I have a really good friend who lives in a wealthy neighborhood who has a female neighbor who is constantly either turning him into the HOA or leaves notes on his door and once actually knocked on his door to tell me about things she thinks he should do differently with his yard and even questioned him on the choice of paint when she realized he was having his house re-painted. "I hope you're not painting it a horrible color"
One day he had gone to his storage area to pick up his boat and took it to his house to get it ready to take out on the water. She rushed over to him while he was loading it up with boat toys and food and such to tell him "You know you can't park that there!!!"
He was literally at the house with the boat for less than an hour getting ready but she had to be a bitch about it.

So yeah, women can be icky too.

 

[SnowHot]

Something funny, or not so much I guess, but on the topic of lonely older men… At my ski condo this season I was often going up on Thursdays and coming back on Sundays. It’s very quiet in our building outside of the weekends, since not many live there full time or on weekdays in general. There are some retirees who spend the week there and leave on Friday for the weekends too.

Anyway, later in the season I went outside one Friday morning with my dog Sookie and we immediately saw this older guy packing his car up near the side door we use. I had not met him before. He called me over and I thought he was going to introduce himself or something, but instead he proceeds to tell me how he sees a lot of dog poop from a small dog left on the ground outside of his unit and looks pointedly at Sookie. I was quite taken aback, like I’m sorry did you just accuse me of leaving dog poop on the ground simply because you saw a stranger with a small dog… that’s quite bold in a building of 64 units with many dog owners. And YES we have a huge issue with irresponsible owners not picking up after their dogs or obeying leash rules… but I digress. I simply tried to be friendly and commiserated that yes it’s a big issue but no it’s not me or my dog leaving poop behind. I then proceeded to pull poop bags out of my pocket like see I’m all prepared, as always. And then I just made an exit. I was actually pretty annoyed the more I thought about it on our walk, and told my significant other about it when we returned too. But whatever.

Well, a couple of weeks later I come outside on a Friday morning and who do I see? Same guy loading his car again. Mind you, I was already in a bad mood from something else happening in my own life so I was already starting on a bad note. But I come outside and the guy AGAIN mentions dog poop… and I cannot literally believe I’m getting accused by this idiot AGAIN of something I don’t ever do. I think that’s the worst part is that I’m always mad about the people leaving poop behind and I am ALWAYS pick up after my dog no matter what. So this time I wasn’t placating, I very confidently said, “Sir, we’ve had this conversation and I’m NOT having it again. The poop is not from my dog, period, the end.” And I go to walk away, and he starts raising his voice at me and aggressively pointing to the dog waste station we have and I just lost it. I won’t go into what I said, but there was some go pound sand in a much less friendly way before I stormed off with Sookie.

At that point I’m like no I’m not getting harassed by this guy a third time… I’m reporting it to the property manager and board. I don’t know this guy and if he’s doing this to other people, but I basically wanted them to step in and tell this guy to leave me alone. Turns out he HAS had other complaints against him and from other women with small dogs. Hmmmm would he be running his mouth to a guy with a dog? I doubt it. If a man acts aggressively like that to another man he knows he might get more than he’s trying to bite off.

But very long story wrap up lol… I swear I had a point! Even with the history of this guy harassing other women, the property manager tried to tell me how she felt kind of bad for him because he didn’t have any family and was lonely. My response… as sad as that may be, perhaps there’s a reason he’s lonely if that’s how he behaves. I’m not sorry for sticking up for myself because the guy is lonely. He could have been a nice neighbor, actually introduced himself, and I’d be happy to chat skiing with him like I do with many other owners in our building. So yeah, I guess my point is that we shouldn’t demonize the people kindly looking for some human contact when there are these others who more deserve the less than polite response I provided.

Wow, that guy is a jerk.
The guy who offered me golf tips was actually quite kind, just clueless and intrusive. and like I said in the post to Christy, just because I said he was well meaning old and lonely, does not mean I have to tolerate the action.

RE: dog poop.
Like you, I've always been a responsible dog owner. There is a woman in our neighborhood that several of us have noted her as "a karen". When we adopted Gypsy 5 years ago she turned us into animal control, accusing us of allowing our dog to poop in her yard and run around the neighborhood. TWICE!
Both times Animal Control closed the case as unfounded. The second time, the officer said it was clear that Gyspy was not running around the neighborhood because she was glued to me while she was doing her check in with us. She explained how I could get the documentation for the reports and since there were two unfounded claims from the same person I could file a report with the Sherriff and have (essentially) a PPO placed on her so she would have to pay a fine if she harassed us about our dog again.

So yeah, women can be icky too.

*BTW, I don't know how the term "a karen" came about. What's up with that?

 

[MissySki]

You don't have to tolerate unsolicited advice and frankly I don't. I will tell the person doling out advice "I'm good thanks"
I do tend to use sarcasm in some situations where the giver is persistent(which is really quite rare) I can also be a bit snarky in those moments.

And really, I don't know these people so I don't really care if they think I'm a bitch.
For the record I can assume he has good intentions(not a jerk) without tolerating the behavior.

RE: your husband and male friends don't do this...
See my earlier post about how refreshing it is to see what the men on SkiTalk are saying in the same thread.



What I have heard from some men is that there are certain women who are entitled that don't necessarily give unsolicited advice but they can be intrusive or judgy, similar to the situation about the boarding pass I mentioned.

Example: I have a really good friend who lives in a wealthy neighborhood who has a female neighbor who is constantly either turning him into the HOA or leaves notes on his door and once actually knocked on his door to tell me about things she thinks he should do differently with his yard and even questioned him on the choice of paint when she realized he was having his house re-painted. "I hope you're not painting it a horrible color"
One day he had gone to his storage area to pick up his boat and took it to his house to get it ready to take out on the water. She rushed over to him while he was loading it up with boat toys and food and such to tell him "You know you can't park that there!!!"
He was literally at the house with the boat for less than an hour getting ready but she had to be a bitch about it.

So yeah, women can be icky too.

Oof yes they can! I was on an HOA in the past when I owned a townhouse as my primary residence, and I couldn’t believe how petty some people were. Most often it actually was a woman making complaints that made my eyes roll so far until the back of my head. Lol

I vowed then never to own another property with an HOA as a primary residence. I dislike it in general but Feel it’s a necessary evil I’m willing to accept in my vacation property only because I’m 4 hours away and appreciate things being taken care of and looked after when I can’t be there.

 

[MissySki]

Wow, that guy is a jerk.
The guy who offered me golf tips was actually quite kind, just clueless and intrusive. and like I said in the post to Christy, just because I said he was well meaning old and lonely, does not mean I have to tolerate the action.

RE: dog poop.
Like you, I've always been a responsible dog owner. There is a woman in our neighborhood that several of us have noted her as "a karen". When we adopted Gypsy 5 years ago she turned us into animal control, accusing us of allowing our dog to poop in her yard and run around the neighborhood. TWICE!
Both times Animal Control closed the case as unfounded. The second time, the officer said it was clear that Gyspy was not running around the neighborhood because she was glued to me while she was doing her check in with us. She explained how I could get the documentation for the reports and since there were two unfounded claims from the same person I could file a report with the Sherriff and have (essentially) a PPO placed on her so she would have to pay a fine if she harassed us about our dog again.

So yeah, women can be icky too.

*BTW, I don't know how the term "a karen" came about. What's up with that?

Oh my goodness, why do people act so awfully to others like this?? That’s also insane!

haha I don’t know but I feel bad for people named Karen because of this at times.

 

[SnowHot]

Oh my goodness, why do people act so awfully to others like this?? That’s also insane!

haha I don’t know but I feel bad for people named Karen because of this at times.

Yeah this particular neighbor's name is actually April. When she moved into the nieghborhood I actually bought a plant and took it to her to welcome her to the neighborhood. She seemed nice at the time, but before Ziggy passed in 2019 we would walk by her house occasionally and her dogs (she has/had two) would usually be in the yard going nuts and barking like crazy(she has a wrought iron fence that you can see through). At one point she came out and yelled that walking by her house with a dog was upsetting her dogs and we needed to find a different route.

Yeah....that ain't happening. This is where we walk our loop. It would be different if we were actually crossing her property but we were on public open space which her house abutts to. Don't buy a house on the edge of open space if you don't want people walking by.

Talk about a thread drift...

 

[SnowHot]

@MissySki Also, your HOA person can be as sympathetic as she wants but they still need to do their job or she could get into trouble for allowing him to harass people.
You could sic @ilovepugs on him!

 

[Puppyski]

Something funny, or not so much I guess, but on the topic of lonely older men… At my ski condo this season I was often going up on Thursdays and coming back on Sundays. It’s very quiet in our building outside of the weekends, since not many live there full time or on weekdays in general. There are some retirees who spend the week there and leave on Friday for the weekends too.

Anyway, later in the season I went outside one Friday morning with my dog Sookie and we immediately saw this older guy packing his car up near the side door we use. I had not met him before. He called me over and I thought he was going to introduce himself or something, but instead he proceeds to tell me how he sees a lot of dog poop from a small dog left on the ground outside of his unit and looks pointedly at Sookie. I was quite taken aback, like I’m sorry did you just accuse me of leaving dog poop on the ground simply because you saw a stranger with a small dog… that’s quite bold in a building of 64 units with many dog owners. And YES we have a huge issue with irresponsible owners not picking up after their dogs or obeying leash rules… but I digress. I simply tried to be friendly and commiserated that yes it’s a big issue but no it’s not me or my dog leaving poop behind. I then proceeded to pull poop bags out of my pocket like see I’m all prepared, as always. And then I just made an exit. I was actually pretty annoyed the more I thought about it on our walk, and told my significant other about it when we returned too. But whatever.

Well, a couple of weeks later I come outside on a Friday morning and who do I see? Same guy loading his car again. Mind you, I was already in a bad mood from something else happening in my own life so I was already starting on a bad note. But I come outside and the guy AGAIN mentions dog poop… and I cannot literally believe I’m getting accused by this idiot AGAIN of something I don’t ever do. I think that’s the worst part is that I’m always mad about the people leaving poop behind and I am ALWAYS pick up after my dog no matter what. So this time I wasn’t placating, I very confidently said, “Sir, we’ve had this conversation and I’m NOT having it again. The poop is not from my dog, period, the end.” And I go to walk away, and he starts raising his voice at me and aggressively pointing to the dog waste station we have and I just lost it. I won’t go into what I said, but there was some go pound sand in a much less friendly way before I stormed off with Sookie.

At that point I’m like no I’m not getting harassed by this guy a third time… I’m reporting it to the property manager and board. I don’t know this guy and if he’s doing this to other people, but I basically wanted them to step in and tell this guy to leave me alone. Turns out he HAS had other complaints against him and from other women with small dogs. Hmmmm would he be running his mouth to a guy with a dog? I doubt it. If a man acts aggressively like that to another man he knows he might get more than he’s trying to bite off.

But very long story wrap up lol… I swear I had a point! Even with the history of this guy harassing other women, the property manager tried to tell me how she felt kind of bad for him because he didn’t have any family and was lonely. My response… as sad as that may be, perhaps there’s a reason he’s lonely if that’s how he behaves. I’m not sorry for sticking up for myself because the guy is lonely. Though I was surprised and proud of myself for not being walked over because I’m not usually confrontational if I can help it. He could have been a nice neighbor, actually introduced himself, and I’d be happy to chat skiing with him like I do with many other owners in our building. He could have trusted me when I said it wasn’t me and dropped it, or hey go set up a camera outside on your patio and catch the actual culprit so we can all shame them! So yeah, I guess my point is that we shouldn’t necessarily demonize the people kindly looking for some human contact when there are these others who more deserve the less than polite responses... I’d take an annoying person who can’t just take the social cue that I’m now getting back to the task at hand any day over the total a’hole who thinks he has the right to try and intimidate random women in the building I own a condo at.

I have been harassed multiple times by two older ‘gentlemen’ in my neighborhood for allowing my dogs to poop (or even pee) on the grass that is between ‘their’ sidewalk and the street. This area is public right of way, even if an home owner maintain it. And I always, always pick up after my dogs.

My husband, of course, has never had these individuals go after him when he is walking the dogs, and somehow when we are both walking the dogs together, we are left alone as well.

As has been said in other posts, the vast, vast majority of men I interact with do not behave this way. And there are certainly some troublesome women in the neighborhood too.

But it would be nice to not have an otherwise pleasant walk feel stressful when I take my tiny dogs passed those two houses.

 

[santacruz skier]

Don’t get me started on HOA’s. I own a beach condo in a small 10 unit complex and am on the board. Nightmare. Sorry for the derail.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

I would not take kindly to someone of either gender demanding to see my boarding pass if they are simply another passenger and not with the airline. That is extremely strange! I’d be telling them they need to mind their own business. Yikes.

That would really irk me as well. I do get funky looks as I have priority boarding but usually can only afford the back of the plane. Let them wonder.... None of their business. I do think that some like to think that they are special and when, by their own weird definition of special, someone joins that looks less the part, it miffs them. I have a friend who is a member of an exclusive golf club and is often asked to bring a guest a towel....because he does not look like the others. Some of it is cluelessness, some of it a bit less so.

 

[SnowHot]

Don’t get me started on HOA’s. I own a beach condo in a small 10 unit complex and am on the board. Nightmare. Sorry for the derail.

What do you call a group of karens?
An HOA

 

[RachelV]

Thought some of you might enjoy the essay that led to the term "mansplaining". It was originally published in 2008, but here it is with a new intro (actual essay starts maybe 1/3 of the way down the page). Long story short, it's about the author attending a party where a man explains her own book to her.

Men Explain Things to Me

I still don't know why Sallie and I bothered to go to that party in the forest slope above Aspen. The people were all older than us and dull in a distinguished way,

tomdispatch.com

 

[Christy]

Oh my goodness, why do people act so awfully to others like this?? That’s also insane!

haha I don’t know but I feel bad for people named Karen because of this at times.

I do too. I know know how it started but it's really just a way to get women to shut up. Who wants to be called a Karen?

 

[Christy]

That would really irk me as well. I do get funky looks as I have priority boarding but usually can only afford the back of the plane. Let them wonder.... None of their business. I do think that some like to think that they are special and when, by their own weird definition of special, someone joins that looks less the part, it miffs them. I have a friend who is a member of an exclusive golf club and is often asked to bring a guest a towel....because he does not look like the others. Some of it is cluelessness, some of it a bit less so.

Ha, they should fly Alaska Airlines more. Plenty of people there with status who are not...fancy. Who may not be wearing a shirt underneath their leather jacket.

 

[santacruz skier]

I do too. I know know how it started but it's really just a way to get women to shut up. Who wants to be called a Karen?

We do have some Karen divas here that might take offense.

 

[SnowHot]

We do have some Karen divas here that might take offense.

There's a difference between being Karen and being a karen

 

[SnowHot]

So, today I was at the practice area and I didn't wear my AirPods .
The same dude who was intrusive a few weeks ago was there and I practiced my RBF. He avoided me.