• Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.

Intermediate skier looking for drills/tips

Ellyl

Diva in Training
Hi everyone!

After a few years away from skiing, I recently moved to upstate NY (Rochester) and decided to get a once a week pass. I last took lessons 3 years ago - it was a group lesson where the instructor taught us parallel turns on blues (tip edges, pressure on toe), but as one of the faster/more confident skiers in the group, I had little instructor attention.

I've spent the past month refamiliarizing myself with skiing, and find I can go down the blues/single diamond at the current resort (there doesn't seem to be much difference) slowly by either doing big C turns or skidding, or just tear down the slow with small incomplete turns (I just lean on different edges quickly). I don't mind going fast, and can always hockey stop if necessary, but my technique is sloppy compared to others who are going past me with rhythm. Once when I went with my parents, my mom mentioned that when I turn my skis still sometimes form a slight A shape, which I wasn't conscious of.

Given Covid, I am hesitant to get lessons at the moment. I remember that a drill while learning to parallel ski was to pick up the tail of the inner ski, and was wondering if there are other similar drills I could practice to improve my turns?
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Welcome! What's your home mountain? Greek? or Holiday Valley?

When you make what feels like a C-turn, do you slow down a bit before starting the next turn? I just did a semi-private lesson with a friend who is an intermediate. I'm advanced but the lesson was with an instructor I've worked with before at my home hill (northern VA). We worked on fundamentals. The drill the instructor often starts with is called a garland. It's essentially a set of turns in only one direction while moving across an easy pitch. The goal is to almost come to a stop before pointing the skis down to start another turn.
 

Ellyl

Diva in Training
Yep, Bristol mountain is only half an hour away for me, not the biggest place but enough for a couple of hours of skiing a week ^^!

Yeah, my attempts at a C turn really is me holding the skis tipped over till I start going up the hill and slow (fortunately the slopes are really wide).

Ooh, googling garland lead here, with what I guess are some pretty advanced drills. Thanks for the tip!
 
Last edited:

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So many fun drills. Would be helpful to have a video... The slight wedge can have differing causes, and the inside ski pick up, depending on which part of the turn you do it for, could be one aid in reducing that move.

I love shuffle turns personally as they address different aspects of my skiing.

Pivot slips are also a big favorite.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Ooh, googling garland lead here, with what I guess are some pretty advanced drills. Thanks for the tip!
While that's the heading and shape of a garland, the way my Massanutten teaches is has no emphasis on getting to a high edge angle like the junior racers in the video. What he teaches is a way to learn how ski design leads to a turn without very little effort.

The first version of the garland is based on making a turn until gravity brings you to a stop. It's actually a very slow exercise.

@snoWYmonkey and @liquidfeet are instructors. I'm just someone who has taken a number of lessons from assorted instructors, sometimes in small groups where I was the better skier. What I've learned in the past 5-6 years is that a small hill is a good place to practice fundamentals.
 

Ellyl

Diva in Training
So many fun drills. Would be helpful to have a video... The slight wedge can have differing causes, and the inside ski pick up, depending on which part of the turn you do it for, could be one aid in reducing that move.

I love shuffle turns personally as they address different aspects of my skiing.

Pivot slips are also a big favorite.

Ah, I'll try to get a video the next time I can persuade my parents to go skiing with me. I do believe the A forms during turn initiation when I flatten the skis and shift my weight. My weight and focus is typically on the new outside foot, and I guess I'm not tilting/rotating both skis at the same rate?

The shuffle turn sounds fun - it's now on my todo list the next time I'm on a green run. Thanks for the tip!
 

snoWYmonkey

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hi again. Try picking up the inside ski of the soon to be new turn, before you even go through the edge change through flat. After a few dozen of those, leave the inside ski on the snow and make an early weight change turn. If that did not fix the issue then it is likely an inside ski lack of steering as you suspect. Or it can be caused by staying too far forward at the end of the turn allowing the outside ski tail to wash out... So many possible causes... So many fixes. Petra Vhlova actually has a mini stem and she is one of the best racers in the world.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
^^This.

Picking up the new inside ski's tail while leaving its tip down on the snow is a great exercise. Do this lift as the old turn ends. You'll be heading across the hill, so it's the downhill ski's tail that you lift. You don't have to lift it much. Then wait. Just wait. The new turn should happen all on its own. This will initiate a brushed turn, not a purely carved turn. To add gusto to the turn, tip that lifted ski with your foot so that the tip's little toe edge is in the snow, not the whole tip.

If you pick up the whole ski, be careful not to let the tip rise higher than the tail. If this keeps happening, you are aft. Close your ankles (bend your ankles forward) and try again. Lifting the whole ski parallel to the snow surface as the old turn ends can initiate a pure carved turn if your balance over the skis is good. Again to add gusto tip that air borne ski onto its little toe edge with your foot, as if it were on the snow.

Work backwards from these exercises to lightening instead of lifting the new inside ski. Then take video and see if the stem and/or A-frame is gone.

You may have an A-frame without the converging tips. This is a special case. You anatomy's Q-angle may be to blame, or a twisted tibia, or other anatomical things particular to your foot or hip. Adjustment to the footbed or the boot sole may help. When this happens, it may be a purely cosmetic issue, although some instructors may think it's a functional one, in which case it's time to ask how your ski-snow interaction is messed up by the A-frame since the turn entry is parallel.

If you are worried about an A frame while the skis enter the turn parallel, you'll need the attention of a very smart bootfitter. This is where bootfitting gets called an art and not just a science. In other words, experimentation may be needed.
 
Last edited:

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Ellyl - I think a video would be great. One reason is I think of an A-frame as the position of the lower legs, related to each other. Yet your description sounds more like a wedge.

A-frame could be caused a number of issues. But usually is just not edging the uphill ski. A small wedge would be the skis not being parallel.

Speaking of A-frames, I have a slight one in my avatar. My case, my knees are too close together.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
....I remember that a drill while learning to parallel ski was to pick up the tail of the inner ski, and was wondering if there are other similar drills I could practice to improve my turns?

Re-reading your OP, I see that you've already done this drill. Keep doing it. Do it with variations. Lift the tail a little. Then lift it a lot. You'll see a difference in your turns. Play around with that. Do this on beginner terrain.

Lift the tail earlier and earlier. Lift it for longer and longer. See if you can link turns lifting one tail, then the other, without any real time spent with both skis flat on the snow.

Start lifting the whole ski, and go through this sequence with the whole ski lifted. Be sure the tip doesn't lift higher than the tail.

Another one that's a bit different, since you asked, is the new-inside-ski pull-back. With both skis on snow, head straight down the bunny slope. Slide one ski backwards a little, without letting the hip above it move backwards. It's just a foot pull-back, motored by a knee-bend. Keep that ski on the snow as you do this. You should get a turn.

Link these straight down the fall line on the bunny slope, left foot pull-back, right pull-back, repeat. You'll notice that the tail of the pulled-back ski lightens and its tip presses harder downward as you pull the foot back. Start this going straight down the hill, and be especially careful that your hips continue to face downhill as you do these pull-backs. You say you "just tear down the slow with small incomplete turns (I just lean on different edges quickly)' and that you don't mind going fast. Try this inside foot pull-back instead. Your torso should stay upright as you do this, without any leaning. Keeping the torso upright is GOOD. Avoid leaning it at any point as you edge the skis. Avoid it like the plague (haha).

Getting off the lift, you can turn to the right or left with totally parallel skis if you do the foot pull-back. Watch others get off the lift and turn to the side; rarely do they keep their skis parallel as they do that turn. You can make the turn parallel with this little move.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I have an A frame, it's super annoying to me visually.. My previous boots corrected for it, but it wasn't without a lot of trial and error before making permanent changes to the boot soles to account for a leg length discrepancy and some other anatomical thing I can't recall right now. My right knee is the one that drops in and that leg is my shorter one. I didn't correct for it in my current boot, and don't feel a real functional difference when skiing.. I've been told that it's more of a cosmetic issue for me by instructors because my edge angles usually match when I ski and I don't get hung up on my edge on that side, but I sure did like pictures of myself skiing better when I had it corrected than when I don't. :smile:
 

Ellyl

Diva in Training
Wow, that's a lot of factors, I really didn't expect so many different things could go into the shape when turning. There's definitely a lot on the technique end I should improve on before considering boots ^^! Thanks for the advice, I was aware of the lifting the legs drill, but didn't know of the specifics (The instructor pretty much just told us to lift it when turning and the group of us followed him down like little ducklings).

When skiing regularly, is it recommended to change weight completely before flattening the skis and changing edges? Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure my weight goes even when I start to turn, going fully on the other feet once the edge is tipped.

Jilly - yeah, I think I was describing a wedge, though for all I know I do have an A frame as well. Ah well, one thing at a time XD
 

newboots

Angel Diva
Such a great discussion! So much to learn!

I tried this on the runout at Belleayre last week, but I couldn't do it. Frustrated, then I realized it's the hip problem. Certain angles give me lots of pain. Oh well, continuing the PT exercises and seeing the doctor again! I'm lucky it's the pandemic winter; I can expect a little less from myself.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Ah well, one thing at a time XD
Yep, lots of little factors once you get past the basics, which you obviously have already done.

Have you looked at the videos that instructors posted in your other thread asking for advice a few years ago about slowing down?

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/speed-control-for-beginners-intemediate.20533/

What I've found is that I understand drills differently after 5+ years of working with very experienced instructors. In the recent lessons when we did the garlands, I could feel what he was after far better than when he first showed me the same drill years ago. At the time, he told me it would take at least a season, if not two, to get away from the bad habits I had from cruising blues out west as a working adult who only skied a few days every few years. You are way ahead of the game at this stage given how much you are thinking about what's happening with your legs and skis.
 

Ellyl

Diva in Training
It's been a long time - very helpful to revisit. The tread was amazing in giving me things to look into. It's a bit funny, but the thing that really ended up helping me feel in control of my speed is tightening up my boots. I now buckle it almost to the end (yeah they're a bit too big), which just gave me so much more control.

Before it felt like I was dependent to the edge and had no control of the radius - once I tightened my boots, I could just make the skis go the the direction I want if necessary, which made me feel much safer.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
Ooh, as soon as you can afford them, new boots from a super-reputable bootfitter will completely change your game! Snug, like a firm handshake. Works wonders.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
26,237
Messages
497,697
Members
8,503
Latest member
MermaidKelly
Top