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Intermediate in the PNW! How narrow, how wide?

bluebluerose

Diva in Training
Hi, I found a thread on skiing in the PNW but it was about a year old. Given that gear changes a little all the time I hoped to get some updated info.

I'm skiing at Mount Hood Meadows on the Spring progression pass. I hadn't been on skis in over 20 years, but splurged and jumped back in. It's been a blast! I'm having a lot of fun on groomed green and blue runs, and don't have a lot of interest in the tough advanced runs. The current spring sales are really tempting me to get different skis than what the Meadows ski school has available... but I think I will rent gear next year to try different setups.

I'm 5'7 and 190 lbs, so figuring out lengths has been tougher too. The rental gear I have from Meadows is all super short - 155 - so I'm looking forward to trying different lengths as well.

I read a lot about skis like the Santa Ana line, Black Pearl, and Rossignol Black Ops. Does the snow in the PNW lend itself better to certain widths over others? Are Santa Ana 93s too fat, would 84s be a better choice for our kind of terrain? I expect to be on Mount Hood a lot next year.

Would love to hear from other PNW ladies. Thanks!
 

Analisa

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Definitely sounds like it's time to get off the basic demos if you're feeling good on blues. They're made of foam and super soft, and don't do much for skiers once they've got basic parallel turns down.

If you're skiing only groomers, I'd probably look for something in the mid-80s to low 90s in width. Those skis are categorized as "all mountain," but their shape usually favors piste skiing. If it's one of those days where it's powing out or a lot of snow fell after the resorts groomed overnight, they'll give you some float. Plus since PNW groomers are super slushy and get roughed up through the day, they'll help navigate the crud. And if you decide to the sides of the runs and ski some powder, they'll support it.

That category is also *stacked* with well loved, best selling skis. They break down into a few categories:

- Easiest: Atomic Maven 86, Pandora 84, Volkl Blaze 86, Salomon QST Spark, Dynastar MPro 84 W. These skis are the softest and easiest in this width class. They'll be an easy jump from rentals since they're still very soft and beginner-accessible. They're a wood core, which'll be a little more responsive and more stable at speed compared to rentals. They're also a full or partial "sidewall" construction, meaning they'll feel connected to the snow when you're on edge or skiing in icy conditions compared to rentals. If you're already skiing blues with connected, rhythmic turns, they might not have enough runway for growth.

- Easy-ish: Atomic Maven 86 C, Armada Reliance 88 C, Volkl Yumi, Elan Ripstick 88 W, Dynastar MPro 90 W. These have some carbon or a smidgen of metal in them, which makes them stiffer and more stable at speed compared the other group, but they're all still light, which means easier to drag through the parking lot and less fatiguing to ski.

- Strong Intermediate & Up: Black Pearl 88, Santa Ana 88, Salomon Stance 88, Mindbender 88Ti (becomes the 89Ti next season). These have a sheet or partial sheet of titanal in them, which makes the ski heavier and stiffer. They are super smooth with a little bit of speed, but can feel heavy, planky, and cumbersome if you're not smoothly connecting one turn to the other. You don't need to be a speed demon, but you need to just need to have a bit of momentum going from turn to turn. These also all have full sidewalls, so they feel very planted and secure on the snow. There's also a spectrum in this category. Like the Mindbender's the lightest and has the smallest sheet of metal, while a ski like the Volkl Kenja 88 has 2 full sheets and targets an advanced to expert skier.

There's definitely a trade off between buying on sale and demoing first. It wasn't a great snow year and the supply chain issues led to some late delivery timing, so I expect prices are going to get really sharp in the summer. You could always game the system: with Evo in your area, they have a 365+1 day return policy, and price matching. You could always nab a ski if you see a really good deal (mark your calendar for late June, their 4th of July sale has been pretty good in the past). If you don't mount what you buy, you can always test some options throughout next season and see if you want something a lot burlier or more accessible and take your purchase back. But if you bought a Black Pearl 88 and liked the Santa Ana, they're not drastically different and you could probably feel pretty confident mounting the sale pair.
 

bluebluerose

Diva in Training
Thank you so much! And especially for the advice on picking up gear. I really appreciate having such an authoritative breakdown - it's so hard to get the information just from skimming 'Ten Best Frontside Skis' lists.
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@bluebluerose curious if you have you been renting the high performance demos? I haven't been to Mt. Hood Meadows in 6 years but they had a nice selection of performance skis when I was there..... looks like they would possibly have some of the skis @Analisa mentioned and they are selling their demo fleet ..... perhaps they have a demo/ apply rental fee to purchase program?

 

Christy

Angel Diva
My daily drivers are 98s. I ski in WA. Black Pearl 98s to be specific but they are a few years old and have changed. I love them for everything. I even loved them at Bachelor in January when it was solid ice. 88s would be good too.
 

vs28

Diva in Training
Definitely sounds like it's time to get off the basic demos if you're feeling good on blues. They're made of foam and super soft, and don't do much for skiers once they've got basic parallel turns down.

If you're skiing only groomers, I'd probably look for something in the mid-80s to low 90s in width. Those skis are categorized as "all mountain," but their shape usually favors piste skiing. If it's one of those days where it's powing out or a lot of snow fell after the resorts groomed overnight, they'll give you some float. Plus since PNW groomers are super slushy and get roughed up through the day, they'll help navigate the crud. And if you decide to the sides of the runs and ski some powder, they'll support it.

That category is also *stacked* with well loved, best selling skis. They break down into a few categories:

- Easiest: Atomic Maven 86, Pandora 84, Volkl Blaze 86, Salomon QST Spark, Dynastar MPro 84 W. These skis are the softest and easiest in this width class. They'll be an easy jump from rentals since they're still very soft and beginner-accessible. They're a wood core, which'll be a little more responsive and more stable at speed compared to rentals. They're also a full or partial "sidewall" construction, meaning they'll feel connected to the snow when you're on edge or skiing in icy conditions compared to rentals. If you're already skiing blues with connected, rhythmic turns, they might not have enough runway for growth.

- Easy-ish: Atomic Maven 86 C, Armada Reliance 88 C, Volkl Yumi, Elan Ripstick 88 W, Dynastar MPro 90 W. These have some carbon or a smidgen of metal in them, which makes them stiffer and more stable at speed compared the other group, but they're all still light, which means easier to drag through the parking lot and less fatiguing to ski.

- Strong Intermediate & Up: Black Pearl 88, Santa Ana 88, Salomon Stance 88, Mindbender 88Ti (becomes the 89Ti next season). These have a sheet or partial sheet of titanal in them, which makes the ski heavier and stiffer. They are super smooth with a little bit of speed, but can feel heavy, planky, and cumbersome if you're not smoothly connecting one turn to the other. You don't need to be a speed demon, but you need to just need to have a bit of momentum going from turn to turn. These also all have full sidewalls, so they feel very planted and secure on the snow. There's also a spectrum in this category. Like the Mindbender's the lightest and has the smallest sheet of metal, while a ski like the Volkl Kenja 88 has 2 full sheets and targets an advanced to expert skier.

There's definitely a trade off between buying on sale and demoing first. It wasn't a great snow year and the supply chain issues led to some late delivery timing, so I expect prices are going to get really sharp in the summer. You could always game the system: with Evo in your area, they have a 365+1 day return policy, and price matching. You could always nab a ski if you see a really good deal (mark your calendar for late June, their 4th of July sale has been pretty good in the past). If you don't mount what you buy, you can always test some options throughout next season and see if you want something a lot burlier or more accessible and take your purchase back. But if you bought a Black Pearl 88 and liked the Santa Ana, they're not drastically different and you could probably feel pretty confident mounting the sale pair.
This is so incredibly helpful - thank you! Super interesting though that you put the Dynastar MPro skis under easy and easy-ish because I always read that they’re really stiff, which I kind of interpret to mean that they’re less approachable for a petite upper-intermmediate like myself looking to progress. What are some of the other attributes of these skis that made you put them in this category? Would love to hear your thoughts since I’m seriously considering picking up the MPro 90 W.
 

Analisa

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@vs28 Mainly just trying to find a place to draw the line. The MPro 90 is the burliest of the middle group, the Mindbender 88Ti is probably the easiest of the 3rd. They're probably very close, but generally I see where on the spectrum women want to focus on, and then I like to get into the nitty gritty from there.

I'm looking at weight (which'll usually indicate more titanal or a denser / thicker wood core), turn radius (with the understanding that it shortens when a ski bends and will be less meaningful for softer skis), and mount point. Then some anecdotal experience skiing with my partner's aunt who's on the 90W and a lot of success matching newly-intermediate skiers to the previous version (Legend 88W) with good success. They can't get *that* stiff at their given weight, and the turn radius is tighter than most of its burlier peers. Upper-intermediate sounds like a solid match.

Dynastar really likes to mark their skis as expert models when they have control (their internal site, I believe evo is manufacturer-entered as well). I don't think they grasp that any man who tumbles down a black diamond considers themselves an expert, and women are so much more likely to underrate our skills. Powder7 sets their skill rating for each ski and tends to get it pretty right (with the exception of the Blizzard Sheevas, IMO). I also read any reviews that I can get my hands on, and the M Pro almost always gets called out as a good compromise between opposites: stable and damp, but also nimble and accessible.
 

scandium

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Having been on both the MPro 90 and the Mindbender 88 last year I would say they are much of a muchness on firm groomers, but the MPro has an almost bouncy feel in softer conditions probably due to the tip rocker. I preferred the Mindbender 88, but my daily driver is the full-metal 2019 Kenja.
 

bluebluerose

Diva in Training
@WaterGirl - I didn't even realize I could rent higher end equipment from Mt Hood Meadows. When I'd asked them about 'is there other gear I could rent' I was clearly not being specific enough. Thanks for the tip!
 

floatingyardsale

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
<snip> I don't think they grasp that any man who tumbles down a black diamond considers themselves an expert, and women are so much more likely to underrate our skills. Powder7 sets their skill rating for each ski and tends to get it pretty right (with the exception of the Blizzard Sheevas, IMO). I also read any reviews that I can get my hands on, and the M Pro almost always gets called out as a good compromise between opposites: stable and damp, but also nimble and accessible.

Not much opinion on skis but MAN does this resonate. I have *no* idea how to rate my skiing skills because if it doesn't feel effortless I assume I'm not at all skilled (looking at you, cruddy cement snow), so I describe myself as an intermediate because I assume anyone who is an expert doesn't care about snow conditions and I have no idea what advanced means.

I'd try to demo as much as you can, even if it's just to get a feel for what people mean by 'playful' and 'damp.'
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
@bluebluerose - Analisa put together a great summary and breakdown of ski easiness. The only thing I would add is DO NOT shy away from the strong intermediate, advanced, or even expert skis just because of the label put on them. The experience label generally describes how stiff they are, and how difficult/easy they are to bend.

This is where weight and momentum come into play --- An expert skier at 5'0", 110lbs will often be happier on an intermediate ski because they are easier to bend. The opposite rings true to 5'7", 190lbs, you might be happier with a stiffer "expert" ski, because they'll give you the support you need as you continue improving.
 

maddy13

Certified Ski Diva
@WaterGirl The Meadows demo center is in the old lodge, which is a different building than the regular rental center (new lodge starts with S, but the name escapes me). They really do have a decent selection most years, and you can swap skis out for different ones as many times as you want
 

steezeling

Certified Ski Diva
@WaterGirl The Meadows demo center is in the old lodge, which is a different building than the regular rental center (new lodge starts with S, but the name escapes me). They really do have a decent selection most years, and you can swap skis out for different ones as many times as you want
Yep, the basic rentals are in Sahale lodge basement and the High Performance Center-which offers demos-is in the Main Lodge.

@WaterGirl Their demo stock is getting pretty low this year so I would call to see what they have on hand and if it fits your needs before you buy a demo package!
 

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