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Interesting Gear Thread on Epic
- Thread starter ski diva
- Start date
volklgirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Gotta admit.....I'm with mntlion, to a point.
For advanced to expert skis, I'm fully in support of same ski, same graphics, different cores and lengths for weight/height based differentiation (?). Don't we all b*tch about the "girlie graphics??
However, given my experiences with the "normal" female skier (not us crazys!), marketing a WS ski is probably a good idea - unfortunately, many of them DO pick their skis based on looks and name. :(
For advanced to expert skis, I'm fully in support of same ski, same graphics, different cores and lengths for weight/height based differentiation (?). Don't we all b*tch about the "girlie graphics??
However, given my experiences with the "normal" female skier (not us crazys!), marketing a WS ski is probably a good idea - unfortunately, many of them DO pick their skis based on looks and name. :(
Little Lightning
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Maybe if i were an average woman I could agree but as a small footed, lightweight woman here's what I've discovered.
Manufacturers determine the center of the ski based on averages. something like 24? for women. My size 22 boot is about 1'1/2" off the center point. So even on a woman's ski with a small sweet spot I need to be more forward than the manufacturer recommends. I wonder how far forward I need to go on a unisex ski?
I ski a 154 length. How many unisex skis come that small.
Very few boot manufacturers make a true 22 shell. They make 23's and they put plastic bars in the toe to shorten them. I had a pair of boots like that and for 3 seasons I had to live with a black big toe from hitting the bar.
The only Jr. boot narrow enough for my foot are Lange Racing boots. However, they are to low volume for my high, inflexible instep. Now Lange women's boots are to wide for my narrow foot!
Last year I bought the Head Dream Thang boots. Supposedly the shell is made on a woman's last, most women boots are not. It's the first boot that I've skied 60+ days on and haven't had to have heel lifts to reach the heel pocket, the shell blown out because it's pressing on my venicular bone or padding because my heels are slipping. The Dream Thangs accomodate my ankles, calves, instep, and heels in a way that no other boot has.
I don't wear shoes, clothing, own bikes, bike shoes, gloves, jerseys or backpacks designed for men. Why should I be limited to ski gear that is unisex, in other words, designed for men?
If it weren't for womans ski gear, I've been there and don't plan to go back, I would have a very frustrating time skiing. My gear has helped me to become a better skier and has made the ski experience more enjoyable than I ever had back in the days of gear designed solely for men!
Finally, I don't buy skis based on graphics but how they perform for me. I have a pair of 04-05 K2 Phat Luvs. Do I like the green and purple flowers? Not really but I bought them because I liked they way they performed.
Manufacturers determine the center of the ski based on averages. something like 24? for women. My size 22 boot is about 1'1/2" off the center point. So even on a woman's ski with a small sweet spot I need to be more forward than the manufacturer recommends. I wonder how far forward I need to go on a unisex ski?
I ski a 154 length. How many unisex skis come that small.
Very few boot manufacturers make a true 22 shell. They make 23's and they put plastic bars in the toe to shorten them. I had a pair of boots like that and for 3 seasons I had to live with a black big toe from hitting the bar.
The only Jr. boot narrow enough for my foot are Lange Racing boots. However, they are to low volume for my high, inflexible instep. Now Lange women's boots are to wide for my narrow foot!
Last year I bought the Head Dream Thang boots. Supposedly the shell is made on a woman's last, most women boots are not. It's the first boot that I've skied 60+ days on and haven't had to have heel lifts to reach the heel pocket, the shell blown out because it's pressing on my venicular bone or padding because my heels are slipping. The Dream Thangs accomodate my ankles, calves, instep, and heels in a way that no other boot has.
I don't wear shoes, clothing, own bikes, bike shoes, gloves, jerseys or backpacks designed for men. Why should I be limited to ski gear that is unisex, in other words, designed for men?
If it weren't for womans ski gear, I've been there and don't plan to go back, I would have a very frustrating time skiing. My gear has helped me to become a better skier and has made the ski experience more enjoyable than I ever had back in the days of gear designed solely for men!
Finally, I don't buy skis based on graphics but how they perform for me. I have a pair of 04-05 K2 Phat Luvs. Do I like the green and purple flowers? Not really but I bought them because I liked they way they performed.
persee
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think the reason why WS equipment is somewhat neccessary is due to size differences. I can't think of any men's advanced skis which come in a length that is appropriate to my height - I'm short not much I can do about that. Also even if a guy my height is looking for skis he's likely to have 30-50lbs of weight on me and what is a proper flex for my height/ability would not be appropriate to a similarly "small" man.
I think if mtn lion's desires were fulfilled with ski manufacturers only making unisex equipment most likely you would see smaller women - regardless of their ability forced into "junior" equipment as it wouldn't pay to make the smaller sized "advanced" equipment in "adult" equipment. Generally what I see with kids equipment is that it's not made to last more than a season or two as kids will outgrow stuff quickly.
Also if we take on the "boot" issue then why do we have women's and mens shoes - certainly for any type of shoe if there are really so few differences resultant from gender than we should not have any differences - just make more sizes, right? but lets be honest women's body's are generally shaped a bit differently than men, both in terms of center of gravity (although i have met some women w/ no hips but they're the exception to the rule), as well as general leg and foot shape.
I'm not looking for girly graphics or dumbed down equipment - I'm looking for appropriate equipment, which without the major push for womens equipment would probably be very difficult for someone my size to find.
I think if mtn lion's desires were fulfilled with ski manufacturers only making unisex equipment most likely you would see smaller women - regardless of their ability forced into "junior" equipment as it wouldn't pay to make the smaller sized "advanced" equipment in "adult" equipment. Generally what I see with kids equipment is that it's not made to last more than a season or two as kids will outgrow stuff quickly.
Also if we take on the "boot" issue then why do we have women's and mens shoes - certainly for any type of shoe if there are really so few differences resultant from gender than we should not have any differences - just make more sizes, right? but lets be honest women's body's are generally shaped a bit differently than men, both in terms of center of gravity (although i have met some women w/ no hips but they're the exception to the rule), as well as general leg and foot shape.
I'm not looking for girly graphics or dumbed down equipment - I'm looking for appropriate equipment, which without the major push for womens equipment would probably be very difficult for someone my size to find.
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Really is interesting - and food for thought. For those of us who have been skiing for a really long time, the current explosion in women's specific skis is really, totally recent. And based on the number of inquiries we get here (and new members as a result), sometimes befuddling to the point of exasperation.
The graphics stuff has, IMO, just gone off the charts crazy, and this really is just in the last few years.
And when did WS skis first hit the market anyway, 8+- years ago? And who was the first big name? Wasn't it K2 and the original T9 series?
There were no such choices when I was "coming up in the ranks" as an adult beginner to intermediate and beyond. The skis were unisex. Period. It was more a length thing than anything else. The goal then was to get to your "target length" as an advanced skier. Oh, how great that first pair of 190's was....
Heck, even the first widely marketed shaped skis from makers like K2 came in but a few models (I'm remembering the K2 3, K2 4).
Boots were gender specific by the time I started skiing - but what was marketed to women wasn't worth a second glance. The days of "fur-lined" cuffs...
It's nice to have so many choices----but maybe it really has gone overboard in numbers of models and increasingly outrageous graphics (for both genders)???
The graphics stuff has, IMO, just gone off the charts crazy, and this really is just in the last few years.
And when did WS skis first hit the market anyway, 8+- years ago? And who was the first big name? Wasn't it K2 and the original T9 series?
There were no such choices when I was "coming up in the ranks" as an adult beginner to intermediate and beyond. The skis were unisex. Period. It was more a length thing than anything else. The goal then was to get to your "target length" as an advanced skier. Oh, how great that first pair of 190's was....
Heck, even the first widely marketed shaped skis from makers like K2 came in but a few models (I'm remembering the K2 3, K2 4).
Boots were gender specific by the time I started skiing - but what was marketed to women wasn't worth a second glance. The days of "fur-lined" cuffs...
It's nice to have so many choices----but maybe it really has gone overboard in numbers of models and increasingly outrageous graphics (for both genders)???
Little Lightning
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Olin came out with the first skis marketed to women in the late 90's. It was called the DTV. The graphics weren't much different than the unisex, maybe a different color but not pink.
The DTV was designed with the bindings moved forward. I was in 7th heaven with those skis! I no longer crossed tips or hung up my tails. They were a 190 cm length although shorter ones were available. Prior to getting those skis I had the ski shops move the bindings forward on my unisex skis.
In 2000 I demoed skis at Steamboat. I had a selection of 4-5 brands womens skis. Each company had 1 woman's ski in their lineup at the time. There were 2 that I liked. One was the Rossigonal B? and the other was the Dynastar ATV 4X4. In 02, I think it was, I bought my 1st Volkl woman's ski. I also demoed the K2 T-Nine. I bought the Volkl. I'm not sure exactly when K2 came out with the T-9 skis but I don't remember it in the group that I demoed in 2000.
We've come a long way in 10 or so years!
The DTV was designed with the bindings moved forward. I was in 7th heaven with those skis! I no longer crossed tips or hung up my tails. They were a 190 cm length although shorter ones were available. Prior to getting those skis I had the ski shops move the bindings forward on my unisex skis.
In 2000 I demoed skis at Steamboat. I had a selection of 4-5 brands womens skis. Each company had 1 woman's ski in their lineup at the time. There were 2 that I liked. One was the Rossigonal B? and the other was the Dynastar ATV 4X4. In 02, I think it was, I bought my 1st Volkl woman's ski. I also demoed the K2 T-Nine. I bought the Volkl. I'm not sure exactly when K2 came out with the T-9 skis but I don't remember it in the group that I demoed in 2000.
We've come a long way in 10 or so years!
volklgirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yes but....
Haven't we had a couple of threads about equipment appropriate for teenage boys and small/light men?
Surely, women's skis WOULD be appropriate for them, but would they buy it? No! Would we expect them to? No. Would a unisex ski with a softer core and in a shorter length be the ticket (read a women's ski with unisex graphics)? Absolutely.
So why not (ie): Mantra Stiff, Mantra Standard, and Mantra Soft, in lengths appropriate for each weight class and with both "standard" and "forward" mounting points marked? Aren't snowshoes chosen by weight range and length?
Boots are a "hole 'nother" story, though. Yes, women's feet are typically shaped differently and should be accomodated appropriately.
Haven't we had a couple of threads about equipment appropriate for teenage boys and small/light men?
Surely, women's skis WOULD be appropriate for them, but would they buy it? No! Would we expect them to? No. Would a unisex ski with a softer core and in a shorter length be the ticket (read a women's ski with unisex graphics)? Absolutely.
So why not (ie): Mantra Stiff, Mantra Standard, and Mantra Soft, in lengths appropriate for each weight class and with both "standard" and "forward" mounting points marked? Aren't snowshoes chosen by weight range and length?
Boots are a "hole 'nother" story, though. Yes, women's feet are typically shaped differently and should be accomodated appropriately.
Severine
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't have a lot to offer in this thread having only 2 seasons under my belt (and being large enough weight-wise that I could probably have no problem finding "unisex" skis to suit my needs). But I will say that I have seen 2 young men at the local ski hill sporting my Dynastar Marie Martinod pro model TTs. These are marketed as women's skis, yet these men are using them. Then again, they have a sexy woman on them
... but they're still so-called women's skis that men are using. I found that interesting.
Little Lightning
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Another little tidbit, Olin was later bought out by K2.
A small company called 4Frnt makes skis with a very large sweet spot. A rep talked me into demoing this ski. I was skeptical because I didn't think it would work for me. I was pleasantly surprised how well centered I was on this ski. I loved it on groomed but it wasn't as easy to ski in bumps. The reason? It was a 161 and it was the shortest ski they made. The graphics were neat too. If you put all the lengths in the series together they made a mtn scene.
So yes, it's possible to make a ski to appeal to everyone and it looks like some of the non-traditional companies are trying it.
The rep told me that 4Frnt is coming out with a woman's ski next year. He said it was a "traditional" woman's ski and would be made by Elan.
I don't know about kids skis but the binding mount is a biggie for me. I guess they would be soft enough that it wouldn't matter. But I think of it this way, I'm not a small man and I'm not a "big" kid either. Why can't I have my own gear?
After spending the 1st 20 yrs of my ski experience on everybody skis I'm very happy to take advantage of the availability of women's skis.
A small company called 4Frnt makes skis with a very large sweet spot. A rep talked me into demoing this ski. I was skeptical because I didn't think it would work for me. I was pleasantly surprised how well centered I was on this ski. I loved it on groomed but it wasn't as easy to ski in bumps. The reason? It was a 161 and it was the shortest ski they made. The graphics were neat too. If you put all the lengths in the series together they made a mtn scene.
So yes, it's possible to make a ski to appeal to everyone and it looks like some of the non-traditional companies are trying it.
The rep told me that 4Frnt is coming out with a woman's ski next year. He said it was a "traditional" woman's ski and would be made by Elan.
I don't know about kids skis but the binding mount is a biggie for me. I guess they would be soft enough that it wouldn't matter. But I think of it this way, I'm not a small man and I'm not a "big" kid either. Why can't I have my own gear?
After spending the 1st 20 yrs of my ski experience on everybody skis I'm very happy to take advantage of the availability of women's skis.
skihub
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Interesting...... I am perplexed a bit by the women's and unisex skis also. This women's ski concept is new to me and I don't know quite what to do with it. I have had a hard time finding expert women's skis to demo also, which doesn't help.
I skied my 190 straight skis for many years, took time off for babies, and then got some soft skis so that I could concentrate on teaching my kids to ski. Now I am stepping it up back into racing and aggressive skiing for ME again. Yeah!
But I am confused because I don't know whether I need a women's expert ski or a men's advanced.... ski shops definitely recommend women's skis to me. My ski buddies say unisex because I like to be first down the hill. 
But I am just not sure.
I guess overall the choices are nice, especially with the performance non girly women's skis out there now. But I think that expert women who have strong body types get caught in a dilemna on this issue. I think lighter women of all skiing levels benefit from the women's skis, and that intermediate level women probably do too. But it gets difficult when you want to race, are strong (ie heavier), and are advanced/expert.
If I could have as many skis as some of you divas, I wouldn't be so hung up on this.......
I skied my 190 straight skis for many years, took time off for babies, and then got some soft skis so that I could concentrate on teaching my kids to ski. Now I am stepping it up back into racing and aggressive skiing for ME again. Yeah!
But I am confused because I don't know whether I need a women's expert ski or a men's advanced.... ski shops definitely recommend women's skis to me. My ski buddies say unisex because I like to be first down the hill. But I am just not sure.I guess overall the choices are nice, especially with the performance non girly women's skis out there now. But I think that expert women who have strong body types get caught in a dilemna on this issue. I think lighter women of all skiing levels benefit from the women's skis, and that intermediate level women probably do too. But it gets difficult when you want to race, are strong (ie heavier), and are advanced/expert.
If I could have as many skis as some of you divas, I wouldn't be so hung up on this.......
Solincia
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm actually really glad someone brought this up, because I was reading that on epic earlier today.
As i've stated before, I'm not new to skiing, it's just been 11 years... but OH what a difference 11 years can make.
I have to admit, I'm missing the idea of just picking up a pair of boots, some 180-185 skis, and hitting the slopes.
I don't think it's a matter of limiting choices for woman, I just think perhaps the industry has given too many choices for everything. Even in men's skis <which i'm currently looking at deals because dbf wants skis>. Too many choices, graphics, side cuts, styles, is beginner really intermediate, or is this advanced more intermediate but not too expert??
I bought women's skis, and I'm 5'8" , 220lbs... I could have bought men's and thought nothing of it. But like Persee said, with the new style <new to me anyway> skis, men's skis just don't cut it for her.
The average woman in America is 5'4", 145lbs... and becoming more health conscience, even 100-120 lbs...
Most woman who are 5'7" - 5'9" in good shape are about 135lbs to 160... And with flex being a consideration in skis these days, a man that height is, like Persee said, usually a good 20lbs heavier. So will a man's ski work just as well? I don't think so.
Volklgrl, you said you agree with him, that upper level skis should be the same... but not the same, taking into consideration weight/height , making different cores and lengths. Isn't that what they are already doing?
We are woman, and there is nothing wrong with liking pretty graphics and "stylish" gear. Nothing at all. And I can understand the frustration that he has <from reading the post on epic> regarding people wanting to buy a product based on graphics, but can you blame them? If I hadn't done my research AND if I hadn't discovered ski diva, I probably would have done the same thing.
Like I said, there are sooooo many things to consider now, when all you used to have to consider was the length compared to your height, that how is the average uneducated consumers supposed to know any better? And when you try to educate yourself, I can see where confusion will set in!
And is it really a problem to have someone want to match their skis to their boots? Seriously. I know it doesn't matter, but with all of the options out there, does it really matter? I forget who it was on here who mentioned that she just bought new boots, and she bought the red/white ones. They don't match her skis, but she wished the shop had the black ones, because they would have. Same exact boot, different color. So if you find a boot that fits, I'm sure they'll probably have a different color!
I agree with Little Lightening...."I don't wear shoes, clothing, own bikes, bike shoes, gloves, jerseys or backpacks designed for men. Why should I be limited to ski gear that is unisex, in other words, designed for men?"
And as a side note... My boyfriend bought women's gloves because he liked the color <beige & taupe>. I have the same glove in the men's version because it came in black. He wont open the zipper pocket, though... it's pink in there!
As i've stated before, I'm not new to skiing, it's just been 11 years... but OH what a difference 11 years can make.
I have to admit, I'm missing the idea of just picking up a pair of boots, some 180-185 skis, and hitting the slopes.
I don't think it's a matter of limiting choices for woman, I just think perhaps the industry has given too many choices for everything. Even in men's skis <which i'm currently looking at deals because dbf wants skis>. Too many choices, graphics, side cuts, styles, is beginner really intermediate, or is this advanced more intermediate but not too expert??
I bought women's skis, and I'm 5'8" , 220lbs... I could have bought men's and thought nothing of it. But like Persee said, with the new style <new to me anyway> skis, men's skis just don't cut it for her.
The average woman in America is 5'4", 145lbs... and becoming more health conscience, even 100-120 lbs...
Most woman who are 5'7" - 5'9" in good shape are about 135lbs to 160... And with flex being a consideration in skis these days, a man that height is, like Persee said, usually a good 20lbs heavier. So will a man's ski work just as well? I don't think so.
Volklgrl, you said you agree with him, that upper level skis should be the same... but not the same, taking into consideration weight/height , making different cores and lengths. Isn't that what they are already doing?
We are woman, and there is nothing wrong with liking pretty graphics and "stylish" gear. Nothing at all. And I can understand the frustration that he has <from reading the post on epic> regarding people wanting to buy a product based on graphics, but can you blame them? If I hadn't done my research AND if I hadn't discovered ski diva, I probably would have done the same thing.
Like I said, there are sooooo many things to consider now, when all you used to have to consider was the length compared to your height, that how is the average uneducated consumers supposed to know any better? And when you try to educate yourself, I can see where confusion will set in!
And is it really a problem to have someone want to match their skis to their boots? Seriously. I know it doesn't matter, but with all of the options out there, does it really matter? I forget who it was on here who mentioned that she just bought new boots, and she bought the red/white ones. They don't match her skis, but she wished the shop had the black ones, because they would have. Same exact boot, different color. So if you find a boot that fits, I'm sure they'll probably have a different color!
I agree with Little Lightening...."I don't wear shoes, clothing, own bikes, bike shoes, gloves, jerseys or backpacks designed for men. Why should I be limited to ski gear that is unisex, in other words, designed for men?"
And as a side note... My boyfriend bought women's gloves because he liked the color <beige & taupe>. I have the same glove in the men's version because it came in black. He wont open the zipper pocket, though... it's pink in there!
perma-grin
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think he is whining. It sounds like he either doesn't have enough room, or want to make the effort to accomodate his customers with the type of inventory that they (women) are intrested in or asking for. As a retired general manager and hard goods buyer of a shop, I understand where he is coming from in that respect. It is a pain in the butt trying to keep the right mix of SKU's in your store. Unfortunately with boots while you may be able to fit a lady into a say 25. mondo point that is a unisex boot and color, it is a tough sell to fit the guy that wears a 25 mondo point into the pretty white and lavender lady's boot aimed at the same skier type. 
So unfortunatley you have to carry more SKU's for both men and women in the same mondo points. Such is life. He probably complained loudly when shape skis were introduce too because he knew they weren't as fast as his 210 Atomic Red Sleds! Also most ski boot manufactures stop at a size 24 (L 7,M6) on their unisex boots some even at 25 (L 8, M 7). With out womens specific boots my only option would be to do what I had to do in high school, ski in a Jr. Race boot. While I didn't mind it then (as a kid) having limited choices. Now that I am shall we say more mature, I expect and demand more choices. Plus as an adult I now have the money to spend on them. As a store if you are unwilling or unable to provide me the customer with those choices, well then I'll take my business some where that will. After all it's my money I've earned it, and I'll spend how I want, on what I want. I do not need to be told what to buy, I know my ability and I know what my boot should fit like. It's 2008, things have changed for women in skiing, and change is good!
So unfortunatley you have to carry more SKU's for both men and women in the same mondo points. Such is life. He probably complained loudly when shape skis were introduce too because he knew they weren't as fast as his 210 Atomic Red Sleds! Also most ski boot manufactures stop at a size 24 (L 7,M6) on their unisex boots some even at 25 (L 8, M 7). With out womens specific boots my only option would be to do what I had to do in high school, ski in a Jr. Race boot. While I didn't mind it then (as a kid) having limited choices. Now that I am shall we say more mature, I expect and demand more choices. Plus as an adult I now have the money to spend on them. As a store if you are unwilling or unable to provide me the customer with those choices, well then I'll take my business some where that will. After all it's my money I've earned it, and I'll spend how I want, on what I want. I do not need to be told what to buy, I know my ability and I know what my boot should fit like. It's 2008, things have changed for women in skiing, and change is good!
Consuela
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't get it...
Originally Posted by mntlion
2) overall I agree that more options are better, BUT you can't sell a man, ladies gear, and you can only sell some ladies, mans gear.
So, I don't get it. If Men don't want to buy "Women's" gear
and some women will buy men's gear, why are they saying the women are the fussy ones who only think about graphics? This just makes no sense.
Also, if men won't buy women's gear and few women care to buy men's gear, how does having only one line solve anything??
Here's my recommendation based on their generalizations: Make one line, put an 'M' on them, and have them all pink with flowers, since women don't need our own gear and are the ones that truly care about graphics. :cheer:
Originally Posted by mntlion
2) overall I agree that more options are better, BUT you can't sell a man, ladies gear, and you can only sell some ladies, mans gear.
So, I don't get it. If Men don't want to buy "Women's" gear
and some women will buy men's gear, why are they saying the women are the fussy ones who only think about graphics? This just makes no sense. Also, if men won't buy women's gear
and few women care to buy men's gear, how does having only one line solve anything??Here's my recommendation based on their generalizations: Make one line, put an 'M' on them, and have them all pink with flowers, since women don't need our own gear and are the ones that truly care about graphics. :cheer:
volklgirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My side of the discussion was purely marketing related. Yes, I think there should be differences in equipment due to differences in weight and strength. But, does it HAVE to be marketed as "women's" gear??????
I DO wear shoes, clothing, own bikes, bike shoes, gloves, jerseys or backpacks designed for men, mostly because I'm large enough that women's clothes and jerseys are too small, womens shoes are too narrow, and women's bikes usually come with lesser components or weaker frames for the same price.
Solincia
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I get what you're saying. In fact, I just read an earlier response on epic. The guy stated that he'd love to try the Aura's, but wouldn't because they were a women's ski.
I think the arguement can go both ways, really. You can't please everyone, but that doesn't mean you should take away from one group <woman> to satisfy another group <men>.
Volklgrl, you and I are in the same situation. We're not small, so it really doesn't matter for us. You race, however, so I see where that would be different for you.
I think the arguement can go both ways, really. You can't please everyone, but that doesn't mean you should take away from one group <woman> to satisfy another group <men>.
Volklgrl, you and I are in the same situation. We're not small, so it really doesn't matter for us. You race, however, so I see where that would be different for you.
C
CMCM
Guest
All the hype about women's skis (i.e. positioning of the binding, and in some cases, raised angles to get women more forward) makes sense to me. A woman's center of gravity etc. IS different from a man's no matter what her height/weight. AND....many of the men's skis aren't made in the shorter lengths.
The thing I don't like is most of the really dopey designs....I always like the men's designs better. But what can you do? I sure wish the ski manufacturers would wise up on the women's designs....sometimes I don't know what they're thinking!
The thing I don't like is most of the really dopey designs....I always like the men's designs better. But what can you do? I sure wish the ski manufacturers would wise up on the women's designs....sometimes I don't know what they're thinking!
I, for one, am delighted that there are women's skis out there. At 5'1" and 110 lbs, I used to have a terrible time finding skis that were right for me; years ago I even resorted to junior skis. I don't think offering the same skis in different lengths and/or flexes and/or mounting points is the answer. These days the differences go beyond that (and I don't just mean graphics!). Women's skis have shorter tips to help you get forward. And some of them offer canting to get you forward, too.
It's the same with boots. Women's boots aren't just smaller. They can offer lower or scalloped cuffs to accommodate our lower calf muscles. So it's more than just size.
I also think that although finding an aggressive women's ski may have been an issue years ago, that's no longer the case. There are some great, kick-ass women's skis out there now. I think there's something for everyone.
It's the same with boots. Women's boots aren't just smaller. They can offer lower or scalloped cuffs to accommodate our lower calf muscles. So it's more than just size.
I also think that although finding an aggressive women's ski may have been an issue years ago, that's no longer the case. There are some great, kick-ass women's skis out there now. I think there's something for everyone.
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Indeed. A lot of the Dynastar Exclusives (not the E Legend) have this ramp angle, which is in addition to the lifter on the binding (Look Exclusive). And a forward mounting point. This was part of the whole Jeannie Thoren philosophy. Some like it, others don't. It's something she promoted for years in her workshops.
vanhoskier
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I haven't demoed the 4Frnt's but have seen them and heard great things. They are BEAUTIFUL skis, graphics-wise and do have a big sweet spot that would appeal to women, I think. However, I got a glimpse of their women's ski for next year (The Madonna) and it's.....PINK AND BLACK. Really hideous. I go for performance over looks but this graphic is a turn-off. This is a classic example of a company that must believe to market a women's ski, it's gotta be pink.
Because I'm 5'10" and 160 lb I can buy unisex skis without a problem. Some women's skis are too soft for my style. That said, my Line Celebrities are pretty stiff and are perfect for aggressive skiing. But, when I wanted park skis, I had to go with unisex skis because the women's models were too short, and I feared, too soft for my taste.
However, I have a very narrow heel, and if there weren't women's boots, I'd be in trouble.
Overall though, I don't know what all the hubbub is about. If there is a good shop person giving information and recommendations, and demos are more widely available, then women should be informed to make good choices, whether it be unisex or women-specific. If flowery skis get more women on the slopes that wouldn't be there otherwise, that's not a bad thing.
Interesting...... I am perplexed a bit by the women's and unisex skis also. This women's ski concept is new to me and I don't know quite what to do with it. I have had a hard time finding expert women's skis to demo also, which doesn't help.
I skied my 190 straight skis for many years, took time off for babies, and then got some soft skis so that I could concentrate on teaching my kids to ski. Now I am stepping it up back into racing and aggressive skiing for ME again. Yeah!
I guess overall the choices are nice, especially with the performance non girly women's skis out there now. But I think that expert women who have strong body types get caught in a dilemna on this issue. I think lighter women of all skiing levels benefit from the women's skis, and that intermediate level women probably do too. But it gets difficult when you want to race, are strong (ie heavier), and are advanced/expert.
If I could have as many skis as some of you divas, I wouldn't be so hung up on this.......
We're similar in some ways - I took time off to start a famil the same time shape skis (and snowboard parks) cam into being. By the time I was back out again, it was totally different. When ready to buy my first pair of shaped (even though I loved my Dynastar Course SL and their ultracool neon bases and graphics lol) it was so weird. I've skiied since 5yo and am very good, and kept up with my fast brother and knew all about gear, etc. Suddenly the sales guys are talking up these short little things with flowers and pastel?! WTF? Right off the bat I feel I have to defend my abilities and desire for unisex, because they usually assume you're a timid intermediate skier - I HATE that.
I still haven't crossed over to female skis and don't expect to. I can definately see how they'd be right for some, but I'm not a 'featherweight' like many/most woman...I'm a big boned strong gal who is heaver than her hubby, so "handling" unisex skis is not a problem at all.
As for speed/racing...I noticed in my weekly NASTAR league, all women use unisex skis. Most are fast/strong woman. Given my weight, speed and ability, I don't see how a ski designed for a 120 pd woman could ever perform for me.
