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Ikon 2020-21, Alterra vs Partners when it comes to lift access reservations

marzNC

Angel Diva
So they tweet or something when the lots are near full? You'll have to tell us how it goes tomorrow. There isn't cell service along the highway to Crystal for the last hour of the drive so unfortunately it wouldn't work here.
It's far more than checking for Tweets up in the canyons for Alta. The primary Twitter account is #Alta Alerts. UTDOT has several others related to the LCC/BCC canyons roads as well as the general UTDOT traffic map. Definitely pays to check one way or another before heading down in the afternoon as well.

There is a webpage for Alta specifically about parking and road conditions for RT210. Includes the main UTDOT traffic cameras. There are electronic signs at the base of LCC showing status. I read somewhere that once the Alta parking lots are full, uphill drivers will be stopped and have to talk to a traffic monitor in order to be allowed to continue on. Exceptions include employees, someone doing a pick up only, or other reasons where it's clear the person is not going to park. UTDOT has been managing traffic during the winter for LCC and BCC for decades. So what's happening for 2020-21 is not that much different. Might even be a little easier since Snowbird is using parking reservations and all the ski areas/resorts are limiting capacity by not selling as many day tickets.

Here are the tweets from last weekend as an example.

Sat, Dec. 12, 2020 - 6+ inches new snow

5:00a
The traction law is now in effect for both Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons. Make sure you’re properly equipped with traction devices before heading up OR down canyon!

8:14am
Parking is limited today. Plan to arrive early or ski this afternoon.

9:00am
Parking is expected to be full by 10am. Please plan to arrive at Alta soon, take the
@RideUTA
Ski Bus or ski this afternoon.

10:22am
Parking is now full. Take the
@RideUTA
Ski Bus or ski this afternoon. Follow the Parking and Road page for updates throughout the day.

12:36pm
Parking spots have opened up in Wildcat, Albion and the Town of Alta. And it's still snowing! Spend your afternoon enjoying the fresh snow at Alta.
 

TNtoTaos

Angel Diva
It's far more than checking for Tweets up in the canyons for Alta. The primary Twitter account is #Alta Alerts. UTDOT has several others related to the LCC/BCC canyons roads as well as the general UTDOT traffic map. Definitely pays to check one way or another before heading down in the afternoon as well.

There is a webpage for Alta specifically about parking and road conditions for RT210. Includes the main UTDOT traffic cameras. There are electronic signs at the base of LCC showing status. I read somewhere that once the Alta parking lots are full, uphill drivers will be stopped and have to talk to a traffic monitor in order to be allowed to continue on. Exceptions include employees, someone doing a pick up only, or other reasons where it's clear the person is not going to park. UTDOT has been managing traffic during the winter for LCC and BCC for decades. So what's happening for 2020-21 is not that much different. Might even be a little easier since Snowbird is using parking reservations and all the ski areas/resorts are limiting capacity by not selling as many day tickets.

Here are the tweets from last weekend as an example.

Sat, Dec. 12, 2020 - 6+ inches new snow

5:00a
The traction law is now in effect for both Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons. Make sure you’re properly equipped with traction devices before heading up OR down canyon!

8:14am
Parking is limited today. Plan to arrive early or ski this afternoon.

9:00am
Parking is expected to be full by 10am. Please plan to arrive at Alta soon, take the
@RideUTA
Ski Bus or ski this afternoon.

10:22am
Parking is now full. Take the
@RideUTA
Ski Bus or ski this afternoon. Follow the Parking and Road page for updates throughout the day.

12:36pm
Parking spots have opened up in Wildcat, Albion and the Town of Alta. And it's still snowing! Spend your afternoon enjoying the fresh snow at Alta.
Just curious, if one decides to take the @RideUTA Ski Bus, is there a place to park and leave your car for the day where you can pick up the bus?
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Just curious, if one decides to take the @RideUTA Ski Bus, is there a place to park and leave your car for the day where you can pick up the bus?
Yes, there are several Park-and-Ride lots that are served by the UTA Ski Bus. Just need to be sure that the down canyon bus is going to stop at the particular lot. The lot that is closest to the base of LCC is sometimes skipped.

Note that there are times that UTA sends out an extra bus or two to try to get everyone who needs to get down canyon back to their car in the late afternoon. But still better not to ski too long if riding the bus.

They are keeping a strict count of passengers to limit capacity. We saw a couple buses with FULL BUS signs this morning as they headed to Snowbird Center. But they dropped off enough people that the people waiting at the Iron Blosam to head to Alta could all get on the 9:00am bus.

Ikon passes serve as bus passes this season. Only need to pay if riding up/down LCC. UTA bus service is free between Alta and Snowbird.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
Sounds like people are lobbying Crystal to take parking reservations, but understandably it's a bit late in the game for that. What I can't understand is why they're still giving people 3 strikes in terms of skiing without a reservation. Statement from them today:

Today was the day we all wait for. A blue bird powder day with mild temperatures. We received over four feet of snow this week; it seemed the demand to get outdoors today would be intense. The parking lots quickly filled this morning which caused frustrating times on the highway and we get it. The parking lots have shrunk this week as the snowbanks around the perimeter kept growing. We also saw many more single car drivers – typical of a powder day. And a sizeable number of backcountry skiers, snowshoers, and others outside of the ski and ride reservations. What we did not have was more reservations than any other Saturday this season. Crystal is still capping reservations at a level that the mountain can safely accommodate. Drivers are also not parking as tightly as they might in a non-Covid environment. The result was unusual demand for parking with slightly less supply of spots resulting in full lots. It’s the first time it’s happened this season and resulted from innocent things all occurring at once.

We know some of you couldn’t get on the mountain as you had intended. If you had a reservation today and couldn’t make it up, you will not be penalized. However, we continue to monitor reservations and anyone who skied or snowboarded today without a reservation will receive a violation and may even lose their pass privileges if it wasn’t a first-time offense. That too contributed to the volume of cars. We remain committed to managing our capacity this winter, and with that comes a commitment to reservations.

We’ve heard your feedback about parking reservations and that is certainly something we’ll be looking into for future seasons, but it’s just not possible to implement in mid-season with all of the other complexities we’re facing this season. We never want to deny anyone access to the mountain and it has been a fine line balancing that with the demand and our desire to offer Crystal as an enjoyable and safe outlet to all the pressures we’re facing in life. We are grateful for your continued feedback, patience and commitment to Crystal Mountain.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Sounds like people are lobbying Crystal to take parking reservations, but understandably it's a bit late in the game for that.
Crystal seems to be the one Alterra resort that really didn't make good decisions about how to handle capacity limits. Winter Park didn't start with lift access reservations but figured out how to implement the Ikon reservation system. I wonder why Crystal tried to do something that clearly hasn't worked well at all.

The only Ikon locations using parking reservations are owned by Powdr. That may not be that obvious to most people since Powdr resorts are run pretty independently and are scattered around the country. I noticed that Killington is only requiring parking reservations on Saturdays and Sundays now.

I used the parking reservation system for Copper and it worked quite well. I could make a reservation beforehand and update with the license plate of the rental car after I got to Denver.

We ended up changing plans for that trip and cancelling or adding a day was pretty painless. For the first day, I didn't drive into the parking lot until after 1pm on a weekday (picked up a ski buddy at the Denver airport that morning). By then, they weren't even bothering to check if people had a reservation. The parking attendants were long gone. That was the free lot and it was more than half empty, with plenty of empty spaces close to the shuttle bus stop.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
I wonder why Crystal tried to do something that clearly hasn't worked well at all.

Yeah. I get that it's been hard and different this year, but the Alterra policy (and it does seem to be an Alterra not just Crystal policy) of not taking action until the 3rd time someone skis without a reservation is a real fail. And I think the lack of experience managing a ski area in the very snowy Cascades, near millions of people, really shows. Every time Crystal puts out a statement they say at least once "this really crazy thing happened and we couldn't have foreseen it"* but it's always something that does happen here and an experienced manager could have foreseen that is sometimes happens.

*Snow taking up part of the parking lot, other recreational users using Crystal's lots, mountain passes and their ski areas closed while Crystal remains open...
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I get that it's been hard and different this year, but the Alterra policy (and it does seem to be an Alterra not just Crystal policy) of not taking action until the 3rd time someone skis without a reservation is a real fail.
Where else have you seen that Alterra has a policy based on 3 strikes related to skiing without a reservation? I haven't paid that much attention since November, but during early season none of the Alterra resorts were requiring lift access reservations. The only Ikon resorts that were using the Ikon reservation system were Partners that are independents not owned by Alterra. Crystal and Winter Park are the only Alterra resorts that are requiring lift access reservations.

Winter Park has RFID. Seems to be using the Ikon reservation system. At least that's the website that shows up when clicking on the link to make a reservation. Although there is a note about trying to ski without a reservation, not sure I understand how that would be possible. Unless there is a way to get to a lift that doesn't have RFID gates. Never been to WP.

https://www.winterparkresort.com/plan-your-trip/reservations

Screen Shot 2021-02-28 at 1.24.22 PM.png
 

Christy

Angel Diva
@marzNC I saw a post, on another message board, from a guy who called the main Ikon help number after not being able to get a reservation and he was told, explicitly, that he could ski without a reservation, with no penalty, but just don't do it 3 times. I went back and found the thread and it was for a partner on the Ikon Pass, but that doesn't matter--the Ikon Pass is an Alterra product and this person called the Ikon helpline. And this is what Crystal is essentially telling people as well.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
@marzNC I saw a post, on another message board, from a guy who called the main Ikon help number after not being able to get a reservation and he was told, explicitly, that he could ski without a reservation, with no penalty, but just don't do it 3 times. I went back and found the thread and it was for a partner on the Ikon Pass, but that doesn't matter--the Ikon Pass is an Alterra product and this person called the Ikon helpline. And this is what Crystal is essentially telling people as well.
Thanks for the clarification.

I've been assuming that at a resort with RFID, if someone tried to use an Ikon pass without a reservation then they couldn't get thru the gate. But that may not be the case. Would certainly be simpler if there is no real time link between the Ikon reservation database and the Ikon pass database. Especially since each resort is using separate software platforms and databases. That's certainly the case for the independent resorts, and even for Alterra resorts.
 

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