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I don’t get why I like this demo skis

Ski Sine Fine

Angel Diva
Before I dive into my demo day, I have to get this out first. On the chairlift ride up, I saw a heavyset man on the easy green slope ready to turn. He jerked his body to the right and fell. But he fell in a very odd way, like his skis were planted on the ground and all of a sudden he moved forward but his right skis didn’t move with him. I looked closer . . . he fell out of his boot! I couldn’t believe it. It was like something out of a roadrunner cartoon. I wonder how that could happen. Buckle failure?

Okay, back on topic. I went to Massanutten and partook Freestyle’s demo fleet. The mountain was wet, slushy, foggy, and just the ugly stuff I want to demo in. I was looking for some mid-80s width for cruddy and slushy stuff. I took a couple of runs on my Absolut Joy as a baseline. I only lapped Lower Showtime (an easy blue) for each pair so I wasn’t pushing them at all.

First up was the Stockli 85 in 154. They were much heavier than the rest of the skis but I found out later it’s because of the Salomon XM13 demo binding. I noticed the stability of the wider width right away. They were damp but very responsive and I seemed to have an easier time staying on top of them. No problem edging them either.

Next was the K2 Mindbender 88. Not as damp as the Stockli and I didn’t really notice any difference in the extra 3 mm in width. Didn’t find them any better than my baseline AJs.

Next was the Blizzard Sheeva 9. Too wide.

While waiting for the BP 88 to come back, I tried the Stockli 85 in 161 to see if I like a longer skis. Nope. Didn’t feel as much in control.

Finally got to try the BP 88 that everybody seems to love. I get almost the same feel skiing them as the Stocklis but they seemed to be a little bit more playful.

By this time my legs are tired so I got back on the Stockli 85 in 154 to see how I handle them with tired legs. Still felt great, stable, responsive, and in control. I then talked to the rep about the weight and he blamed the weight on the Salomon bindings and recommended different bindings (Marker Squire or Attack 11).

So I liked Stockli the best and the BP 88 a close second. I went home and did some googling and here’s where I got confused. Stockli is supposed to like to be driven and skied aggressively. I am neither. So I don’t understand why I feel the most comfortable on them? Maybe if the terrain were more difficult it would be too much for me? My thinking is if I like them on comfortable terrain I’d like them on steeper ones too. Is that not the case?
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
So I liked Stockli the best and the BP 88 a close second. I went home and did some googling and here’s where I got confused. Stockli is supposed to like to be driven and skied aggressively. I am neither. So I don’t understand why I feel the most comfortable on them? Maybe if the terrain were more difficult it would be too much for me? My thinking is if I like them on comfortable terrain I’d like them on steeper ones too. Is that not the case?
Well, you may have better technique than you think. :-)

By this time my legs are tired so I got back on the Stockli 85 in 154 to see how I handle them with tired legs. Still felt great, stable, responsive, and in control. I then talked to the rep about the weight and he blamed the weight on the Salomon bindings and recommended different bindings (Marker Squire or Attack 11).
Good idea to check them out again when you were a bit tired.

When I first demo'd a Stöckli model at the Whitetail Demo Day, it was the Laser SC. That's what my Mnut L3 instructor, Walter, has. He got them from Freestyle. I figured I wouldn't be able to deal with them. Turned out that they were quite fun. Guess all those lessons for 3-4 seasons paid off. Even more fun after the rep shifted the binding location a bit. The next year I demo'd the Laser SC again. Still liked them but wasn't about to spend that kind of money for mid-Atlantic skiing. Then the rep suggested I try the Stormrider 85. I really liked that. Ended up buying a pair a couple years ago after demo'ing mid-season at Taos where I could explore longer runs and more varied terrain.

I also liked the original Black Pearl back in 2012 when I was a low advanced skier with some definite old habits. Still like the current BP88 and BP98, but don't really like the BP78 that much. Had I not demo'd the Stormrider, most likely would've looked around for the BP88 in an appropriate length during late season sales.

I rarely read reviews. Even more so after I started demo'ing fairly regularly. If I do, I look carefully at the description of the reviewer(s). I'm petite, reasonably strong, advanced but not really aggressive, and definitely not really that interested in speed although I can go pretty fast in good conditions. Don't usually match up that well with women who review skis in a formal way.

By the way, the reason my Stormriders are 159cm is because that was the shortest length for the 2017 model. The available lengths are all a few cm shorter for 2019. I had the demo bindings swapped out for Look bindings because of the weight factor. Plus I was pretty sure I'd be keeping those skis for a long time. Stöckli skis are designed to last.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
I also got the impression your skills have improved without you realizing! I believe I’ve read the same words about the BP88s.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Just because a ski "likes" to be driven aggressively doesn't mean it needs to be. What makes it stable a high speed or over crud probably makes it stable at moderate speeds and on groomers.
It may mean that it's a great ski for you because you like it now, but it will serve you well if/as you ski more aggressively.

Don't get too hung up on marketing hype. I once read the following product description at Evo: "Like a seahorse submerged in cosmic waters, the Attack 12 is the tool you need to take your skiing to the next level."
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Don't get too hung up on marketing hype.
Also occurs to me that relatively few beginners/intermediates would consider paying for Stöckli skis, which are at a premium price for good reasons. Also fair to say that the skiers asked to test out skis for formal reviews are usually advanced/expert skiers. So the review text is written based on describing the reviewers. Pretty sure someone I talked to at Taos about the Stormriders noted that they were on the soft side, at least in comparison to other skis in that width class.

That said, it's obvious when I'm not using good technique on steep groomers. Meaning if I'm back at all, I get instant feedback. Walter has said that one reason he likes the Laser SC because he can't get lazy.

When I started demo'ing about 10 years ago, I was a confident intermediate. At a free demo day, I would take out any skis that were remotely the correct length (I'm petite). Learned a lot from the skis I liked, but more from the skis I didn't like. That helped to narrow down which brands usually had models that were fun for me, and what length was really too long.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I think I am leaning toward the BP88. I don’t think at my skill level I can justify spending that kind of money.
Makes perfect sense to buy skis that aren't around $1000 at this stage in your skiing development. Especially since most of your skiing will be at small hills.

Pretty sure the BP88 hasn't changed for the last couple years at least. So quite possible to find a deal if you have some patience in the new few months.

I bought two pairs of all-mountain skis after demo'ing at good prices during the summer. Then went for AJs for mid-Atlantic skiing. By the time I bought the demo Stormriders as a longer term investment, I was averaging 25 days a season on trips out west. Even though I enjoy demo'ing, I don't particularly like shopping.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I still can't get past someone falling out of their boot unless the plastic exploded.... :smile:
At Massanutten, I've seen obvious beginners who rent boots that are 2 or 3 sizes too large and then they still don't buckle the top buckles. On top of that, they have ski pants inside the boot. Not really much holding their feet in the boots. :wink:
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
At Massanutten, I've seen obvious beginners who rent boots that are 2 or 3 sizes too large and then they still don't buckle the top buckles. On top of that, they have ski pants inside the boot. Not really much holding their feet in the boots. :wink:

That's on the rental shop and instructional staff more than the beginner, and that's the kind of poor service that leads to bad experiences that keep people from becoming lifelong skiers. Rental boots are never going to fit very well, but there's no excuse for sizing way up and not helping people put them on properly.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
That's on the rental shop and instructional staff more than the beginner, and that's the kind of poor service that leads to bad experiences that keep people from becoming lifelong skiers. Rental boots are never going to fit very well, but there's no excuse for sizing way up and not helping people put them on properly.
Not disagreeing. But please keep in mind that the ski hill at Massanutten is an amenity to a large timeshare resort in Virginia. Not exactly in ski country. Having talked to local never-evers on the lift and in the lodge over the last decade, their attitude towards skiing is quite different than in New England, or even in PA. Very few take advantage of the beginner lesson package that essentially makes the two 1-hour lessons free. I don't expect the folks in the rental shop to get into a big argument with someone who insists on walking out with boots that are too large and then doesn't do up the top buckle at all. I'm not saying that most of the beginners do that, but a few do because they don't know what they don't know.

The ski school at Massanutten is very good given it's location. Their training program is by far the best in the region in my opinion. The managers are locals who have been running the programs for decades. They are all PSIA Level 3 or above. I do not want to leave the impression that instructors don't care.

Plus, we don't know that was the problem for the man mentioned in Post #1.
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
I saw this once, we saw someone crash in a crazy way, and the ski started running downhill with something still attached. Finally figured out the boot broke in half with the sole still in the binding. Not surprisingly, they had been skiing in ancient rear entry boots. You can't expect plastic to last what, 30 years....
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
Also, to some extent, you like what you like for skis. I have known aggressive skiers who, against all logic, like soft noodley skis and the reverse situation too. If the skis behave nicely for you, I wouldn't worry about who they are marketing them towards.
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
I saw this once, we saw someone crash in a crazy way, and the ski started running downhill with something still attached. Finally figured out the boot broke in half with the sole still in the binding. Not surprisingly, they had been skiing in ancient rear entry boots. You can't expect plastic to last what, 30 years....
Yep. What I saw was instead of a runaway ski the man was carrying the ski with half the boot still attached - and walking through the snow (at the base, luckily for him) in his sock. :doh: The upper part of the boot was still on his leg.
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Also, to some extent, you like what you like for skis. I have known aggressive skiers who, against all logic, like soft noodley skis and the reverse situation too. If the skis behave nicely for you, I wouldn't worry about who they are marketing them towards.
This. ^^
Don't overthink it.
 

Kimmyt

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Also, to some extent, you like what you like for skis. I have known aggressive skiers who, against all logic, like soft noodley skis and the reverse situation too. If the skis behave nicely for you, I wouldn't worry about who they are marketing them towards.

Yes, this is why I make a terrible ski reviewer. 'Oh I liked that ski, it was fun and.... blastey? through the trees. There was a slight whiff of charginess followed by a subtle note of.... makes me smile'.
 

Serafina

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yep. What I saw was instead of a runaway ski the man was carrying the ski with half the boot still attached - and walking through the snow (at the base, luckily for him) in his sock. :doh: The upper part of the boot was still on his leg.

yep - that was my first thought, too, that the guy OP saw had been skiing in some ancient boot and the plastic failed. I had to perform an Intervention last year with a friend of mine who saw no reason to spend all that money on new boots, and was skiing in a pair of boots that predated parabolic skis. Happily, our ski techs keep some busted boots and bindings on hand behind the counter as Exhibit A and Exhibit B for people who don't understand about equipment failures.
 

badger

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've also witnessed boot-fail x three. Each caused by old plastic, and each with a dangerous break in different spots. One of the skiers was injured and took a sled ride down the mountain. :(
 

Ski Sine Fine

Angel Diva
yep - that was my first thought, too, that the guy OP saw had been skiing in some ancient boot and the plastic failed. I had to perform an Intervention last year with a friend of mine who saw no reason to spend all that money on new boots, and was skiing in a pair of boots that predated parabolic skis. Happily, our ski techs keep some busted boots and bindings on hand behind the counter as Exhibit A and Exhibit B for people who don't understand about equipment failures.
Come to think of it, that could have been me two years ago when I started skiing again. I took my 20 years old Nordica rear entry boots to Liberty and rented skis. The rental shop said not a thing. Luckily they held together. At a ski swap the following season some kind soul pointed out I really shouldn’t be using rear entry boots at all, much less ones from straight skis days. It never occur to me they could fall apart at all.
 

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