Hybrid, EV, or PHEV for a ski car?

[berryblondeboys]

How often do you charge it up?

What sold me on the RAV4 Prime was being able to have about 40 miles of EV when fully charged. That means when I'm home, I usually don't have to charge it after just doing a few errands in the neighborhood.

The RAV4 wasn't available when we were buying a vehicle, but it's a great car.

In our car, you can go about 40 miles in winter and 50 in other seasons.

 

[SkiGAP]

I’ve a LR Discovery Sport PHEV on order to replace my Diesel one (diesel very prominent over here). Was afraid to go full electric as I have to get up the mountain every week and don’t (yet) have a plug at my parking spot in Andorra (have one in my garage in TLS).

 

[marzNC]

I’ve a LR Discovery Sport PHEV on order to replace my Diesel one (diesel very prominent over here). Was afraid to go full electric as I have to get up the mountain every week and don’t (yet) have a plug at my parking spot in Andorra (have one in my garage in TLS).

Cool! Hadn't heard of that before.

 

[marzNC]

Anyone interested in learning more first hand about EV vehicles might be able to find a National Drive Electric Week event nearby this weekend. I had no idea this effort has been going on for several years all over the USA.

I went to a small event organized by a local electricity co-op yesterday. Got to see a Ford F-150 Lightning in person because the co-op got one a few months ago. Not in the market since I'm quite happy with the RAV4 Prime AWD PHEV.

EV event sponsored by Piedmont Electric Cooperative, Carrboro, NC, Sept. 27, 2022
(Man in red gets to use the truck for work, woman is waiting for a Lightning)

 

[Bookworm]

I've heard good things about that Ford truck.

 

[nopoleskier]

A test from a friend. For those who are interested…..from a testimony on the internet….So ,the Tesla experiment

has come to an end.
Heather and I each had one for the past 3 months and here are some things from our experience. When gas prices were $5 per gallon it seemed like a good thing to try.
Here are some Pro’s & Cons’s!
Pro’s:
1. Watching netflix on the huge screen looked and sounded like a movie

theater!! Amazing actually ! Using the internet to listen to radio stations on line was so cool.
2. These cars are really quick and very fast! Felt almost as fast

as the corvette !
3. high end speed was also fast. Easy to go over 100 mph. I always got to places quickly.
4. All kids were in awe of the Tesla!!!!
5. I had some warranty issues. I scheduled through the app and tesla came to my house. This was cool other then I had to leave it there during that window of time. They fixed my issues at no charge and texted me what they did. Pretty cool!
Con’s
1. My car said it would get 303 miles per charge. It really only get’s 200 miles in my opinion!!! These cars drain so fast! But when it gets to 80 miles left you need to be concerned. So it really only gets 160-170 true miles. This is not good !
2. Range anxiety is a real thing. This past weekend we took the car to new jersey. Made it there with 60 miles left. Plenty to get us to charging station. Went to the charging station I found In my phone and it was a mall!!! No charging station. Put the next one in my phone!!! Go to this station and had 6 miles left. Im glad it was not another mall. So yes this creates unwanted anxiety

. So I would not want to go below 100 miles ever again. So really this is a 120-140 mile car when its not winter.
3. I heard when winter comes the anxiety is worse. Imagine running electric heat. I heard the numbers go way down from normal usage from other tesla owners. I cant imagine what this will do?!?!
4. The tires on this car can easily get damaged. My wife had two flat tires In her 3
months. And flat tires are a pain in the ass. She had to schedule through the tesla app. Only tesla could fix the tire. She needed a new one

the first time $412. The next time it was a hole and it was $150. They will only fix a tire one time so the next time on that tire it needs a new one. Only tesla can fix tires. Not cool

These tires cut like butter. Dont drive off road at all and dont nick a curb at all!! This tire situation was a deal breaker for heather for sure because she hits curbs every day!!!
5. The car is too fast

. I was bound to get a speeding ticket or an accident. Heather said I drove way too fast everywhere! Driving a 100 mph in this car is not a
Good thing.
6. I charged this car on sunday and it was $43 to charge it at a tesla super station. This price to drive 170 mph is insane. The charging was free for me because of the rental program I was in. But I would never pay $72k for this car then pay that amount to charge it on trips!
7. My electric has gone so sky high at my house these past two months so its hard to actually know how much it is to charge a tesla at home. My guess is its between $75-$100 for one car for a month. I had thought it would be closer to $50 month. I can only see this cost rising.
8. Running electric to my garage was not cheap. My brother did it for $1,000 in materials but it would have been much more if we hired it out. This prob would have been a $3,500 job.
9. Winter was coming and we show/look at alot of houses. We could not risk driving a tesla based on charge or bad tires in this situation.
10. When going to a tesla super charging station it will charge the tesla to 80% in 25 min. But it takes another 25 min to get to 100%. 50-55 min is too long for a full charge. They also dont like you to fully charge the car all the time. What the heck!
Overall I think

electric cars are not ready for us. They really lack what you need if you really have to drive somewhere. And its risky getting a flat tire on any road.
So we turned in our leases and bought 2 - 2021 dodge limited trucks with 30k miles on them. They were $54k each and with 100% bonus depreciation still in effect the real cost was $36k each. These trucks now are $78k brand new which is why buying used made sense. These just came off monthly rental programs. These will be safer, more reliable and more durable especially going into winter.
Peace

out tesla for now!

 

[VickiK]

I have a 2011 Outback too, and will probably get the 2023 Outback.

 

[marzNC]

I have a 2011 Outback too, and will probably get the 2023 Outback.

Hybrid or PHEV? I haven't been following what Subaru is doing.

 

[Susan L]

A test from a friend. For those who are interested…..from a testimony on the internet….So ,the Tesla experiment

has come to an end.
Heather and I each had one for the past 3 months and here are some things from our experience. When gas prices were $5 per gallon it seemed like a good thing to try.
Here are some Pro’s & Cons’s!
Pro’s:
1. Watching netflix on the huge screen looked and sounded like a movie

theater!! Amazing actually ! Using the internet to listen to radio stations on line was so cool.
2. These cars are really quick and very fast! Felt almost as fast

as the corvette !
3. high end speed was also fast. Easy to go over 100 mph. I always got to places quickly.
4. All kids were in awe of the Tesla!!!!
5. I had some warranty issues. I scheduled through the app and tesla came to my house. This was cool other then I had to leave it there during that window of time. They fixed my issues at no charge and texted me what they did. Pretty cool!
Con’s
1. My car said it would get 303 miles per charge. It really only get’s 200 miles in my opinion!!! These cars drain so fast! But when it gets to 80 miles left you need to be concerned. So it really only gets 160-170 true miles. This is not good !
2. Range anxiety is a real thing. This past weekend we took the car to new jersey. Made it there with 60 miles left. Plenty to get us to charging station. Went to the charging station I found In my phone and it was a mall!!! No charging station. Put the next one in my phone!!! Go to this station and had 6 miles left. Im glad it was not another mall. So yes this creates unwanted anxiety

. So I would not want to go below 100 miles ever again. So really this is a 120-140 mile car when its not winter.
3. I heard when winter comes the anxiety is worse. Imagine running electric heat. I heard the numbers go way down from normal usage from other tesla owners. I cant imagine what this will do?!?!
4. The tires on this car can easily get damaged. My wife had two flat tires In her 3
months. And flat tires are a pain in the ass. She had to schedule through the tesla app. Only tesla could fix the tire. She needed a new one

the first time $412. The next time it was a hole and it was $150. They will only fix a tire one time so the next time on that tire it needs a new one. Only tesla can fix tires. Not cool

These tires cut like butter. Dont drive off road at all and dont nick a curb at all!! This tire situation was a deal breaker for heather for sure because she hits curbs every day!!!
5. The car is too fast

. I was bound to get a speeding ticket or an accident. Heather said I drove way too fast everywhere! Driving a 100 mph in this car is not a
Good thing.
6. I charged this car on sunday and it was $43 to charge it at a tesla super station. This price to drive 170 mph is insane. The charging was free for me because of the rental program I was in. But I would never pay $72k for this car then pay that amount to charge it on trips!
7. My electric has gone so sky high at my house these past two months so its hard to actually know how much it is to charge a tesla at home. My guess is its between $75-$100 for one car for a month. I had thought it would be closer to $50 month. I can only see this cost rising.
8. Running electric to my garage was not cheap. My brother did it for $1,000 in materials but it would have been much more if we hired it out. This prob would have been a $3,500 job.
9. Winter was coming and we show/look at alot of houses. We could not risk driving a tesla based on charge or bad tires in this situation.
10. When going to a tesla super charging station it will charge the tesla to 80% in 25 min. But it takes another 25 min to get to 100%. 50-55 min is too long for a full charge. They also dont like you to fully charge the car all the time. What the heck!
Overall I think

electric cars are not ready for us. They really lack what you need if you really have to drive somewhere. And its risky getting a flat tire on any road.
So we turned in our leases and bought 2 - 2021 dodge limited trucks with 30k miles on them. They were $54k each and with 100% bonus depreciation still in effect the real cost was $36k each. These trucks now are $78k brand new which is why buying used made sense. These just came off monthly rental programs. These will be safer, more reliable and more durable especially going into winter.
Peace

out tesla for now!

1/2/3. Better to see % instead of miles. I don’t ever go below 5% before charging and my safety buffer is 10%. You will get used to planning out charging after a while. Range anxiety is real and I carry an extension cord plus extra charging cable in my frunk for emergencies if I find a wall plug. It is slow but better than nothing. I have been using my S as a ski car for the last 2 years and I have to have at least 50% charge if parking in the cold overnight. It takes about 10-15% to wake up and warm up the car before driving. It also helps to keep the car plug in to a wall outlet to prevent unnecessary phantom drain. Every % counts.
Range of your car will depend on many factors, including temperature, terrains and driving habits. My husband drives with a heavy foot so his range drains alot faster than mine. Turn on chill mode and range mode to conserve energy/get maximum range and learn to use regenerative braking effectively.
4. Not true that only Tesla can fix a flat. I have been using Costco for my Teslas for years. The only thing “special” about the tires that came with your car is the foam padding to reduce noise and vibration. I personally don’t feel any difference in my S or X without that foam. We also carry a flat repair kit and a pump since there is no spare in the Tesla. Some people on longer road trips will travel with a spare...
5. Turn on valet mode to limit your speed. My husband did that to me when I first got mine as it was way too easy to go 80+ without trying. It is also very tempting to step on it when the light turns green. But apparently a cop can give you a ticket for doing that even if you are still under the speed limit. My friend got a ticket in his S Plaid for “excessive acceleration”!! Chill mode can take care of that pick up power.
6. I cannot imagine paying for Supercharging. I have heard about the cost per kw has more than doubled in the last few months and it cost just as much to charge a Tesla as gas for ICE, plus time to sit around.
7. I agree with the electric bill at home. Electricity cost $. I have free Supercharging so I try to SC if I pass by one and then keep my cars plugged in at home to top it off.
8. Depending on what you already have at your house and where you are running the charger to, it doesn’t have to be expensive. I only have NEMA14-50 at home and it only cost $380 for the first one and $450 for the 2nd one (one garage space farther from the breaker box). Cost could also be a regional/location thing.
10. Depending on your % when you plug in at a Supercharger, those who start with a lower % will get the highest charge rate, then it levels out. I usually set to 80%, then 90%, then 100% if needed. I find that if I set it to 100% from the get go, the charge rate drops substantially after 80%, unless no one else is charging. If the SC are at least 50% full, they will automatically limit your charge to 80% so others can charge too. If you really need more, you have to manually set it again.
Once you reach the charge level you set, you have 5 mins to unplug and move or it is $1 per minute to occupy the space.
There is an unspoken charging etiquette on how to choose a charging bay if you have choices. You don’t automatically pull up next to someone else (unless you have no choice). You want to avoid sharing the same charging # as others, for example, 1A and 1B share power, so if someone is at 1A, then you want to avoid 1B. Taking 1B will slow both of you down. If you see a Supercharging cable sitting on the ground, it usually means that bay is out of order. You can use your app to report this to Tesla even if someone else has already done so. It will create urgency to speed up repair.

I will add a 11...I find it a safety concern when charging the car. Many Superchargers are at sketchy places. Once you are plugged in, you are stuck there. The car will not move unless you physically unplug the charger, so you are basically a sitting duck. I think there should be an emergency eject button...

As much as I love my Teslas, I don’t usually recommend them to friends unless they have time and money to spare. I am still not ready to go 100% electric so we still have an ICE as a backup.

Curious to know - sounds like you have a short lease? How does that work? I’d like to try a 3 or Y.

 

[marzNC]

As much as I love my Teslas, I don’t usually recommend them to friends unless they have time and money to spare. I am still not ready to go 100% electric so we still have an ICE as a backup.

I have a good friend who has had a Tesla for a while. Model S? In any case, he learned a lot when his daughter started going to boarding school in upstate NY. That not only meant the 800 mile drive a few times during the school year, he also went more than once during the winter. It's pretty cold up in Lake Placid in early January. For his normal use at home, it's works great commuting between his house and his small business office/warehouse.

Since I do a combination of staying at home as a retiree and long drives for ski trips or other vacation trips, Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) made more sense than BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle). Has worked out well. The RAV4 Prime SE that we've had for almost two years has 42,000 miles already. We bought a 2022 RAV4 Prime XSE in August. My daughter is using the 2021 SE as her car. Her commute for work is under 20 miles so the 40 mile EV range means she doesn't need any gas during the week at all. We can charge both cars at home overnight at the same time.

 

[MissySki]

1/2/3. Better to see % instead of miles. I don’t ever go below 5% before charging and my safety buffer is 10%. You will get used to planning out charging after a while. Range anxiety is real and I carry an extension cord plus extra charging cable in my frunk for emergencies if I find a wall plug. It is slow but better than nothing. I have been using my S as a ski car for the last 2 years and I have to have at least 50% charge if parking in the cold overnight. It takes about 10-15% to wake up and warm up the car before driving. It also helps to keep the car plug in to a wall outlet to prevent unnecessary phantom drain. Every % counts.
Range of your car will depend on many factors, including temperature, terrains and driving habits. My husband drives with a heavy foot so his range drains alot faster than mine. Turn on chill mode and range mode to conserve energy/get maximum range and learn to use regenerative braking effectively.
4. Not true that only Tesla can fix a flat. I have been using Costco for my Teslas for years. The only thing “special” about the tires that came with your car is the foam padding to reduce noise and vibration. I personally don’t feel any difference in my S or X without that foam. We also carry a flat repair kit and a pump since there is no spare in the Tesla. Some people on longer road trips will travel with a spare...
5. Turn on valet mode to limit your speed. My husband did that to me when I first got mine as it was way too easy to go 80+ without trying. It is also very tempting to step on it when the light turns green. But apparently a cop can give you a ticket for doing that even if you are still under the speed limit. My friend got a ticket in his S Plaid for “excessive acceleration”!! Chill mode can take care of that pick up power.
6. I cannot imagine paying for Supercharging. I have heard about the cost per kw has more than doubled in the last few months and it cost just as much to charge a Tesla as gas for ICE, plus time to sit around.
7. I agree with the electric bill at home. Electricity cost $. I have free Supercharging so I try to SC if I pass by one and then keep my cars plugged in at home to top it off.
8. Depending on what you already have at your house and where you are running the charger to, it doesn’t have to be expensive. I only have NEMA14-50 at home and it only cost $380 for the first one and $450 for the 2nd one (one garage space farther from the breaker box). Cost could also be a regional/location thing.
10. Depending on your % when you plug in at a Supercharger, those who start with a lower % will get the highest charge rate, then it levels out. I usually set to 80%, then 90%, then 100% if needed. I find that if I set it to 100% from the get go, the charge rate drops substantially after 80%, unless no one else is charging. If the SC are at least 50% full, they will automatically limit your charge to 80% so others can charge too. If you really need more, you have to manually set it again.
Once you reach the charge level you set, you have 5 mins to unplug and move or it is $1 per minute to occupy the space.
There is an unspoken charging etiquette on how to choose a charging bay if you have choices. You don’t automatically pull up next to someone else (unless you have no choice). You want to avoid sharing the same charging # as others, for example, 1A and 1B share power, so if someone is at 1A, then you want to avoid 1B. Taking 1B will slow both of you down. If you see a Supercharging cable sitting on the ground, it usually means that bay is out of order. You can use your app to report this to Tesla even if someone else has already done so. It will create urgency to speed up repair.

I will add a 11...I find it a safety concern when charging the car. Many Superchargers are at sketchy places. Once you are plugged in, you are stuck there. The car will not move unless you physically unplug the charger, so you are basically a sitting duck. I think there should be an emergency eject button...

As much as I love my Teslas, I don’t usually recommend them to friends unless they have time and money to spare. I am still not ready to go 100% electric so we still have an ICE as a backup.

Curious to know - sounds like you have a short lease? How does that work? I’d like to try a 3 or Y.

Wow, I didn't realize it took so much to wake it up before driving. This would worry me for skiing if I took it to Maine, given how very cold the nights can get. When there I'm in a condo, so there is no way to keep it plugged into a wall outlet like I could at home. There are chargers at Sunday River in a parking lot, but not at the condos. I usually just park my car all weekend since I ski in/out.. I wonder what it would hold for a charge in the really cold times over a weekend.

Sounds like too much of a pain to me.. which is why I lean more to a Rav 4 Prime type vehicle for my next as well. I like that I could charge it but also use gas and not need to be freaked out when in more remote areas up north.

 

[Susan L]

I did it for 2 seasons - parking outside in freezing temperatures and it did stress me out, but since I could charge at the ski valley, I made sure I charged as much as I could before leaving. The tradeoff would be driving downhill without regen braking. Driving uphill in the cold would also use at least double the energy. I wouldn’t want to get stuck in traffic in an EV during the winter either!

 

[nopoleskier]

I have a 2011 Outback too, and will probably get the 2023 Outback.

my 2020 is getting 32+mpg on the highway 30 around town.. 4Cylinder regular gas..

 

[ilovepugs]

Yeah I agree, for most people a full EV doesn’t make a whole lot of sense as a ski car. We have 1 EV and one ICE and that works for us. There’s EV charging at Sugarbush which I think is great, but our EV (Model 3) mostly gets charged at home off our solar panels and I drive my ICE car for any long trips — more because I’m concerned about having a place to charge when I get there than because of concerns about charging on the road.

MINI makes a very cute and fun EV but its range is quite limited (110 miles I think) and it’s just not practical for someone like me, who lives straight up in the countryside and lives far from services.

 

[ilovepugs]

my 2020 is getting 32+mpg on the highway 30 around town.. 4Cylinder regular gas..

Subies have made a huge improvement on fuel economy since ~10-15 years ago. That’s pretty darn good.

 

[marzNC]

Sounds like too much of a pain to me.. which is why I lean more to a Rav 4 Prime type vehicle for my next as well. I like that I could charge it but also use gas and not need to be freaked out when in more remote areas up north.

I wouldn't consider an EV for a single car household if I lived in NYC or farther north. Not as a ski nut.

There are a few PHEV SUVs at this point. We picked the RAV4 Prime in 2020 partially because it had the most EV range. The others only had about 20 miles for max EV.

In pure hybrid (HV) mode, I get about 38 mpg for high speed highway driving. That's a little less than a RAV4 Hybrid because the Prime is a bit heavier because of the bigger traction battery. If I keep at least 30 EV miles while on a trip, I get almost 40 mpg because the car automatically uses a bit more EV for the times I'm off the highway and driving under 40 MPH. It's possible to charge while driving. The default is EV when powering up, so there are times I forget to switch to HV after a quick stop.

There is definitely a learning curve even when moving to a PHEV. I've had fun experimenting.

 

[ilovepugs]

Curious to know - sounds like you have a short lease? How does that work? I’d like to try a 3 or Y.

I think that @nopoleskier’s post was a meme post… but anyway, Hertz and Avis both have M3s in their rental fleet.

Dr Pugs drives the M3 and loves it. I think it’s… ok… and call it a “rich person’s Prius” which drives him insane

 

[marzNC]

Hertz and Avis both have M3s in their rental fleet.

I was curious which airports have EVs to rent. The list of locations for Avis for renting a Tesla Model 3 covers the west coast, plus Nevada, Arizona, Texas, and Hawaii.

 

[VickiK]

I compared the Outback specs to the Subaru Ascent, and have finally excluded the Ascent on the basis it is simply too huge for just moi.

I plan to compare Rav4 Prime hybrid specs to the Outback and do some review reading/watching & test driving. Gary mentioned it as a possible choice, even though he's a Subie fan himself, so I must do due diligence.

 

[ilovepugs]

I compared the Outback specs to the Subaru Ascent, and have finally excluded the Ascent on the basis it is simply too huge for just moi.

I plan to compare Rav4 Prime hybrid specs to the Outback and do some review reading/watching & test driving. Gary mentioned it as a possible choice, even though he's a Subie fan himself, so I must do due diligence.

What about the PHEV Crosstrek? My non-skier MIL drives it and loves it, although it’s a bit small for toting her Celtic harp around. She doesn’t have a garage but installed a 220V outlet on the outside of the cottage and charges off that.