How to overcome fear of collision w/others??

[MaineSkiLady]

Now that I have a ton of time on my hands, my fears having manifested themselves in a less than wonderful outcome, I'm wondering if anyone else has this issue - and if so, how do they deal w/it?

My fear started about 3 years ago when I was knocked out cold from behind (not moving, just like recent injury). Less than a month later, a clip to my tails (at speed) resulted in another big crash (perpetrator having fared way less well than I). Now I ski paranoid. I'm so often looking over my shoulders and glancing that half the fun gets taken away.

I've been buzzed and near-clipped too many times this season to count. The last buzz came within 10 minutes of my recent mishap, as I was skiing to the base. DH could NOT believe it. His comment: "Do you have some kind of bullseye on your jacket???" He has seen it enough times this season alone to chase down the fools who have nearly clipped me. I am not a slow or incompetent skier.

Okay, I realize that "almost doesn't count." Except now I'm dealing with someone else's carelessness in a big way.

My son has chased down people who have caused others to crash in CO and gotten mountain patrol help to collect information - it's now a law not to leave the scene of a crash in CO - and there are new liability laws.

As if I weren't skittish enough this whole season, now I'm worried that this fear will increase considerably next season when I begin anew. I've already given up on most weekends due to traffic and volume, which eliminates so many of the days I could ski w/DH.

Any thoughts/input?

 

[Solincia]

MSL, I hear you... loud and clear. I don't know if you read my post on skiing with my niece on Sunday, but I'm more worried for HER than I am myself. She was pretty sore last night, and her neck still hurts her. Watching my niece get laid out wasn't exactly what I had planned for the day.

If anything, it's going to make me not want to ski on the days when I know it'll be packed. Fortunately I have one day off through the week, and sundays. That weekday morning time slot is my new ski time.

I think we just have to realize that with any sport, there is a certain level of risk. The only thing, really, is protect ourselves <goggles, helmet... yes, she's getting one, so am I> and hope for the best. Unfortunately we can't control what others do.

I've had many sports related injuries over the years, most when I was younger that I'm still paying for now. I've thrown my back out 4 times <literally bent over can't move> since I was 18, and still have bad knees and ankles. btw, how did the apt. go?

 

[SueNJ]

I'm with you, MSL, and I (knock very loudly on wood) have not yet had a collision but have certainly had my share of near misses, the most recent and closest of which happened at the end of the day this past Sunday at Belleayre. As a result, I tend to be a paranoid skier, especially when the mountain is crowded and I'm on a busy trail. I try to avoid crowded ski areas--recently we went to a local resort on a holiday weekend and, when I saw the crowds in the parking lots so early in the day, we just kept right on driving through and went to a smaller, less crowded ski area.

I think we all accept that there will always be some risk inherent to skiing, but it seems to be getting out of hand in some places. One problem is that, due to the anonymity of skiers/boarders at a resort, unless you collide with someone or follow them down the mountain, once they're out of site, they're gone and it's hard to file a complaint against a particular person, so basically they've gotten away with it.

Are the majority of your collisions and near-misses at one or two resorts? If so, I wouldn't hesitate to communicate, in writing, my negative experiences at a resort, every time that I experienced it. If no one speaks up, management won't feel the need to take action. Maybe there needs to be action similar to what your son has helped bring about in CO.

Here's an interesting article on the legal ramifications of skier safety in CO: https://www.chalatlaw.com/NEW/articles/skilaw.html Of particular interest is this statement: "Under the Ski Act, a collision is not an inherent risk, and the defense of assumption of the risk is not available." That means if someone collides with you, they're legally responsible for what happens. I think that safety education, and knowledge of the individual consequences of reckless behavior, are sorely lacking in the industry in general, but probably moreso in some states than in others. We need to start sending the message to those ski areas who turn a blind eye to skiers and boarders who exhibit reckless behavior, or who blatantly ski/ride way beyond the limitations of their abilities. The message also needs to be much more prevalent to individuals, but I think the responsibility for education and for sending a strong message to reckless skiers/riders has to be assumed first by the resorts.

I wonder if there are any statistics being collected at those areas that have mountain patrol staff--Camelback and Shawnee are two ski areas in PA that have them. Do those areas have less incidents than others that don't have mountain patrollers on the mountain?

I suspect I'd be out skiing more days each season if it wasn't for the crowd factor on the weekends. If the answer for you, in part, is avoiding crowded resorts and/or the busiest days, I'm sure you're far from alone in dealing with it that way--I'm right with you! I've found that, even on the busiest of weekends, there are always smaller ski areas that have less crowds. On busy days, we try to get to the mountain as early as possible, and usually end our day early afternoon when the crowds get nuts.

I wish I could say something more profound, to help you deal with your fear. I hope that your fear doesn't reach the point where it prevents you from enjoying skiing. It's a matter of finding the balance and figuring out what works best for your comfort level.

 

[Bing]

I've struggled with this after last year, was hit once by an out of control border WHILE in my ski lesson, in the middle of the snake line. Second time, was hit at Tahoe by an out of control border (are you sensing a theme here) when I was standing STOPPED behind a slow sign. unbelievable.

I was so scared right after each incident that I was paralyzed with fear, literally crying on the slopes that I didn't want to get hit and I didn't want to be robbed of my love of the slopes.

This past weekend I did something that i never thought I would ... I skied with my ipod in ONE EAR only. The result ... I could still hear things around the slopes, however, I wasn't attuned to the sound of the shushing boarders who were not out to hit me and as a result relaxed and had a very good time.

This might be worth a try as we can't control the idiots, but not everyone is an idiot and being hypersensitive to the sound of approachign idiots was not helping me much.

 

[Solincia]

I've struggled with this after last year, was hit once by an out of control border WHILE in my ski lesson, in the middle of the snake line. Second time, was hit at Tahoe by an out of control border (are you sensing a theme here) when I was standing STOPPED behind a slow sign. unbelievable.

I definately see a theme here. And while I have nothing against snowboarders <MSL's son is a snowboarder, and my boyfriends brother is also> I do think there is definately a different dynamic at play here. When I skied in highschool, I was never once hit by anyone else. I took some pretty bad spills myself, all of the result of bad skiing, but not anyone else. My niece is now weary of snowboarders on green hills. It's her first year, and she's now also skiing blues pretty well, but when you see a board coming at you like a snowplow, it's a different feeling I think then having someone standing upright on skis coming at you. Unfortunately, it's up to personal responsibility to take lessons, learn how to stop and control yourself, to insure the safety of yourself and others--and some just aren't doing it.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

Vail is also now giving tickets for skiing out of control or too fast.

I understand this paranoia because I can't stand the idea of falling or hitting my head again...even with a helmet.

Mr. NVG skis behind me most of the time, so I know I am taken care of and he is helping to build my confidence and trust in the mountain again.

I also tend to steer clear of the center of a crowded run or a groomer. I tend to ski on the far left side. I've found this to be a safe area for me and my visual field on the left is trees...which is helpful for me. (I have left visual neglect due to the injury).

Yes. Skiing is a risk. But, I do believe that Colorado is beginning to really take the liability seriously....especially since some of the ski areas have been sued for not enforcing safety laws more consistently.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

This past weekend I did something that i never thought I would ... I skied with my ipod in ONE EAR only. The result ... I could still hear things around the slopes, however, I wasn't attuned to the sound of the shushing boarders who were not out to hit me and as a result relaxed and had a very good time.

Yes....the sound of shooshing boards is a HUGE fear for me! They like to weave through and around the skiers....not all....but a lot! Freaks me out! (which I think is the goal!)

 

[altagirl]

I just don't ski groomers unless it's very un-crowded or I really have to for some reason. All of my near misses (and one collision where a friend came from behind me and hooked one ski inside my skis and we just exploded at high speed) have been on a groomer. I know that's probably not practical for a lot of people but I just don't trust other people. Along the same vein, I owned a road bike for a while, but can't stand worrying about cars hitting me, so I sold it and I just mountain bike. I'd rather be out in a location where if I get hurt, 99% of the time it's due to my own mistake.

 

[mollmeister]

I just don't ski groomers unless it's very un-crowded or I really have to for some reason. All of my near misses (and one collision where a friend came from behind me and hooked one ski inside my skis and we just exploded at high speed) have been on a groomer.

^^^^^ Yeah, that.

I have almost entirely stopped skiing groomers, except when absolutely necessary or I am skiing with my Dad and an instructor. Not JUST because of collisions, certainly, but the groomers do tend to be where the people are, and I don't really enjoy the human slalom. Heck, sometimes at the end of the day, I will ski a bump run when tired or even download the lift just to avoid a big crowd.

I make the biggest point of avoiding crowds at the end of the day, as tired + crowded + reckless is a BAAAAAAAAAD combination.

I have to say that for me, it's an age and *style*/attitude thing, not a skier vs. snowboarder thing (although I am married to a snowboarder of 17 years, so I am sure that colors things for me). I am typically most nervous around groups of young (teens to early 30s) men, skiers or snowboarders, who are shouting to each other, egging each other on, and really into taking/finding jumps. I have no problem with hitting jumps. . . in a safe location. But the kind of person who is going to catch blind air across a catwalk in a crowded area at the end of the day (or even seriously consider doing it) is not my friend or anyone else's.

Snowboarders. . . well, even the best of them have bad habits (DH's is that he always zooms partway into the lift line and then ends up blocking it while he's messing with unbuckling-- and no matter how many times I tell him that skiers find this rude and that he's 35yo and should get over it, he doesn't stop), but I think in general they get a bad rap. The noise they make is scarier than the one a snowplowing skier makes. . . and the bad ones do tend to scrape all the snow off the hill. And yes, the learning curve to *semi-competent* isn't as steep, so sometimes bad ones end up in places where they shouldn't be, pretty quickly.

But at the end of the day, lately I have seen just as many crappy/testosterone-fueled skiers who have freaked me out as snowboarders. There are just a lot of rude/uninformed people on the hill these days. And it sucks.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

...but I think in general they get a bad rap.

My experiences with some snowboarders have CREATED their own bad rap. I have also met some very thoughtful and kind snowboarders who respect the fact that without skiers, there probably wouldn't have been a mountain for them to "board" on. :D

But at the end of the day, lately I have seen just as many crappy/testosterone-fueled skiers who have freaked me out as snowboarders. There are just a lot of rude/uninformed people on the hill these days. And it sucks.

Amen to that!

 

[SnowHot]

I feel for you, in a huge way...............huge.

I'm that way with waterskiing. I loved it the first few times, but while I was a beginner, I had a bad experience and never got back up.
I wish I could go back and do it all over.

Please don't phyc yourself out too much.
Let your passion for skiing override your fear of dumb butts.

This is why I like to ski in the trees. A lot less busy in there, and you're going slow enough that you're not likely to really get hurt in there.
*think about it, when someone hits a tree and is injured, its usually someone skiing a groomer and goes off into the trees. Not usually a "tree skier"

No matter what you do, embrace your passion most of all.

* Psst, My husband has one significant and very real phobia. Dentists!
We call a day ahead of his apts and get a single dose of vallium. Mrs SnowHot loves it when Mr SnowHot is getting ready to go to the dentist. Nothing bothers him AT ALL!

 

[vanhoskier]

I can definitely relate to being in fear of the "shussing" boards coming from behind. Living in the mid-Atlantic, I'm relegating to skiing groomers because there's hardly any option unless we get a blizzard. I ski down the far left or far right side...the snow tends to be better there, too.

One of the problems, I think, is that the turn radius for most boarders is much larger than for skiers, and it creates this disharmonic situation that can lead to crossed paths. Add in high-speed, inconsiderate, or simply, out-of-control boarders or skiers and BAM! it's a recipe for disaster. On Saturday night, I saw an out-of-control skier nearly slam a young boarder who was going slowly. So the situation can be reversed.

I ski nights on the weekends...the crowds dissipate at my local mountain then. And I will chase down any offenders and let them know of their mistakes in etiquette (I do this in the park too, for people who park their butts on the top of, or just beyond, jumps). Fortunately, my hill has a very visible and very proactive ski patrol.

I've stopped skiing at Blue Mtn (a large area here in PA that I've visited for years) because of huge crowds, out-of-control boarders, negligent patrol, and rude lift attendants. It's just not worth it.

As for those (like MSL) who are, or have been, injured by collisions, my heart goes out to them. If I'm injured, I want it to be by my OWN volition. Ski off the sides of trails where newbies rarely venture and avoid cat tracks whenever possible! And try to be a good samaritan if the opportunity arises......pay it forward!

 

[SueNJ]

Yes. Skiing is a risk. But, I do believe that Colorado is beginning to really take the liability seriously....especially since some of the ski areas have been sued for not enforcing safety laws more consistently.

AH! I wondered if the ski areas did, in fact, have some responsibility, in spite of the disclaimer stuff on the lift tix, etc. I wish other states would take notice. I have seen a few "enlightement" programs, one of which I believe is at Mt. Snow, where they suggest that skiers/boarders be considerate of others and not ski or ride in such a way that will be agitating for others. But it needs to be taken to the next level--assigning responsibility and consequences for reckless behavior.

 

[ISki]

now I'm worried that this fear will increase considerably next season when I begin anew.

Don't worry today about how much you will worry tomorrow.

 

[vanhoskier]

After posting this I realized I didn't answer MSL's question: how to deal with the fear? Although I don't have a skiing-related collision to comment on, I do have a bicycle one:

I'm an avid road cyclist and ex-racer. I was hit by a truck once from behind, in the evening, when the glare on his windshield prevented him from seeing me. I was badly injured and laid up for 2 weeks.

I was determined to get back on the bike. Just riding through a park at first was scary. I remember crying that first time. Slowly, the fears subsided as I realized what happened to me could happen to anyone, and injuries occur for other reasons, too. Soon, I was riding back on the roads with little fear.

Now, I just try to be as visible as I can. I can't control those around me, so I can't worry about it too much and let it spoil my fun, or I'd end up a couch potato. MSL, for the first few days you return to skiing next year, do so on weekdays when it's not crowded. Have somebody with you (I'm sure some of us will volunteer a trip to Maine to ski! and in time, most of that fear will subside. Don't let it get the best of you!

 

[Gina23]

I had a lot of fear at the beginning of this season skiing in crowds. I haven't been hit like you guys have yet, but I got more comfortable in crowds when (still not totally comfortable) when I kept skiing in crowds. I know that sounds weird, but maybe I trust people too much. And maybe, this will changes after my first bad collision?

 

[MaineSkiLady]

This is the second time I've been hit while standing still out of the way - once at one of the resorts I frequent, this time at the other. This was an advanced terrain only access catwalk - no easy way down once on the catwalk. At least 10 people were perched at the edge of the run (very wide entrance) waiting for their clearance. Someone moseying along the catwalk headed for points further beyond apparently got distracted by the jaw-dropping view and skied right over my tails at a critical time when I was pivoting, causing the awkward, twisting fall. This was a mature, female skier. The other bad collision was caused by a young female skier. So much for my experience with the norm of male snowboarders being the perpetrators (although one crash did involve this type).

Couldn't believe it: couldn't have gotten farther away from busy groomers if I tried. Still happened.

 

[SueNJ]

I'm an avid road cyclist and ex-racer. I was hit by a truck once from behind, in the evening, when the glare on his windshield prevented him from seeing me. I was badly injured and laid up for 2 weeks.

I was determined to get back on the bike. Just riding through a park at first was scary. I remember crying that first time. Slowly, the fears subsided as I realized what happened to me could happen to anyone, and injuries occur for other reasons, too. Soon, I was riding back on the roads with little fear.

Now, I just try to be as visible as I can. I can't control those around me, so I can't worry about it too much and let it spoil my fun, or I'd end up a couch potato. MSL, for the first few days you return to skiing next year, do so on weekdays when it's not crowded. Have somebody with you (I'm sure some of us will volunteer a trip to Maine to ski! and in time, most of that fear will subside. Don't let it get the best of you!

Good point--I had a very similar thing happen to me on my road bike. A woman came around an uphill corner on a road with no shoulder, and the setting sun shone into her windshield, preventing her from seeing me. She clipped me with her side mirror, at about 50mph, and I was knocked clear away from my bike. I somehow only sustained mostly soft-tissue bruising, and was really sore the next morning, but I forced myself to get back on my bike the next evening for a 10-mile ride on a busy road with a nice, wide shoulder. I shook horribly throughout that short ride and cringed and cowered every time a vehicle came up from behind, but it was the best thing I could have done to minimize the fear. To this day, when I ride around that curve in the road, I break out into a cold sweat and fly around the corner as fast as I can, even though it's uphill.

Definitely good advice, vanhoskier. Start off slowly, on a non-crowded day and with someone who can be understanding and supportive.

 

[SnowHot]

Gina, I've been hit a couple times, Significantly!

Two that come to mind, the hit wasn't as bad as the bad attitude afterward.

Somehow, my passion for skiing has always outweighed my anxiety of twits.

 

[Little Lightning]

https://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_8152567

According to this article Colorado ski areas are noticing. Keystone now has huge banners under the lifts stating common courtesy.

If I see a group of skiers coming down the hill I'll wait until they've passed me. I look over my shoulder a lot and, yes, I avoid groomed, crowded runs. I look uphill before I take off and I ski the edges of the run if the slope is crowded

Having an open run is no guarantee, when I got hit at Vail by the boarder there was no one around! And, in spite of the law, he did not stop. My observation is if "they" don't fall they don't bother stopping.

The other day, a guy was flailing his arms and legs right before the lift line. He whacked my friend in the head with his pole. How can you not know that you hit someone with your pole? He didn’t say a word to her. She was very gracious, she told him to keep his pole on the ground. She did have a helmet on so she wasn’t hurt.

I too avoid weekends, including Friday, which seems to be as bad as Saturdays.

Because I can ski black runs and bumps I can usually avoid lift lines and risky skiers. Copper doesn't seem as bad as other Summit County resorts but March madness is here and Copper, too, will be more crowded during the week. :(

I think it's normal to feel fear after an injury, especially if you have to wait a significant amount of time to get back to the sport. After I broke my wrist falling off my mtn bike it took me forever to get back on the bike, the season after I tore my rotator cuff skiing I felt like I had a ghost on my shoulder, but I kept asking myself what were my chances of getting hurt like that again. The torn acl was hard too, I still hesitate at times going into lift lines.

I know it's hard not to worry but it won't make the situation any better. If more skiers would use common sense there would be fewer accidents.