How to avoid being a jerk on your ski vacation.

[Christy]

The rudest students are consistently the ones staying at the top end hotels not short term rentals in my 20 year experience.

Oh, I'm not trying to make any kind of link between jerkiness toward others and what kind of lodging people choose, or even how much money they make. I think jerks and narcissists come in all varieties*. I was responding to Wendy's "what else can we do to help locals" question. And the link between short term rentals and affordability is well documented (and we've discussed it on other threads so I won't rehash anything).

*Maybe the super rich have more jerks in their ranks, I don't know. Though I personally doubt it. They probably just have more opportunity to be jerks to others. A lower income jerk or worse just stays home and abuses his family members and animals or whatnot.

 

[santacruz skier]

I didn't quite get the AirBNB analogy other than they are probably driving prices up for locals trying to rent.

 

[mustski]

So much truth here.

I live in two tourist towns and am on local Facebook pages for both. The elitist attitude that comes out when a tourist asks questions can be brutal.

Yes. I see this all the time also. On the other hand, I am a little tired of folks who ask .. snow is predicted, will I need chains? The law is simple, you MUST carry chains. So YES, you need chains. I swear, someone asks that every day, on the Big Bear FB page, during the winter. My other favorite ... what is there to do in Big Bear? Seriously, you can't use google like the rest of the world? Personally, I just ignore rather than answer rudely ... but I do understand the temptation.

 

[ski diva]

Yes. I see this all the time also. On the other hand, I am a little tired of folks who ask .. snow is predicted, will I need chains? The law is simple, you MUST carry chains. So YES, you need chains. I swear, someone asks that every day, on the Big Bear FB page, during the winter. My other favorite ... what is there to do in Big Bear? Seriously, you can't use google like the rest of the world? Personally, I just ignore rather than answer rudely ... but I do understand the temptation.

I understand this completely. I think a lot of people bring their city sensibilities and expectations to places that do not have the same amenities, and they just don't get it. There are a couple local Facebook pages for my area, too, and the questions and comments are incredible. Like "I have an Uber Eats coupon. Where can I use it?" Hello....this is rural Vermont. WE DO NOT HAVE UBER. You CAN NOT use Uber to get around, either — that's asked about a lot, too. Sometimes people ask about nightlife and bars, and believe me, this town shuts down by 8 PM. Every place is not the city or the suburbs — that's why we love it and why a lot of people come here. But they don't seem to realize that.

 

[Jenny]

@mustski @ski diva - People don't know unless they ask. It's always somebody's first time and if they've never been there before, how would they know? I still remember when a friend of mine was driving outside of Chicago with a friend of hers from the city and this girl was stunned to realize there are roads without streetlights. She had grown up in the city and just never been anywhere else. So I think cutting people some slack isn't a bad idea. Now, if they get all snotty and rude about the answer, that's another issue.

The chains thing - there are lots of places that chains aren't required, or are even forbidden. If you're from a place like that, the chains thing is hard to understand. And yes, people can google and read, but that doesn't replace "real people" language vs legal language. As many times as we've been to the mountains, I still have chain anxiety. And it doesn't help when you see that some certain cars with these tires and this kind of drive can get through but otherwise you need chains. Or when the rental car companies don't have to guarantee you a car that meets the requirements, and furthermore, won't let you put chains on them. Or even bother to ask you about it, for that matter.

 

[ski diva]

You are right, @Jenny . It's something I need to remember. But still, it makes me go "Really?"

 

[Christy]

I didn't quite get the AirBNB analogy other than they are probably driving prices up for locals trying to rent.

Yes. If we are looking for ways to not be jerks to locals, it seems like a really really big thing would be, stop supporting the industry that has made the housing crisis so acute. We know it's not that it's just probably driving up prices--it's displacing workers altogether. And how do we expect our favorite restaurants, shops etc to be staffed?

 

[altagirl]

Yes. I see this all the time also. On the other hand, I am a little tired of folks who ask .. snow is predicted, will I need chains? The law is simple, you MUST carry chains. So YES, you need chains. I swear, someone asks that every day, on the Big Bear FB page, during the winter. My other favorite ... what is there to do in Big Bear? Seriously, you can't use google like the rest of the world? Personally, I just ignore rather than answer rudely ... but I do understand the temptation.

Our variation here is that the cars spinning out and blocking traffic are often obviously (2WD no chains) rental cars that I hear a lot of anti-tourist rage over it. Following the local laws about driving in the snow is huge... and YES they vary place to place. But if you're ignoring the big flashing signs and then get stuck and block traffic.... ugh. I get that maybe you reserved an appropriate vehicle and the rental place gave you something else but then you take the bus. Sorry....

LOL DH always jokes that he wishes the only roadside assistance for people who ignored the requirements for tires would be to push them into the ditch and they can wait a few hours until late morning when the road clears so they have adequate time to sit and contemplate their actions.

 

[Christy]

I have no sympathy for people that ignore road conditions/tire and chain requirements. Checking the DOT website or app (or formerly calling the hotline or watching tv news) in winter is a very basic thing even for us city people. Plus there are electronic signs in so many places now. The idea that someone might have no idea that there is such a thing as winter conditions that they may need to account for...that to me is like anyone who claims ignorance when breaking a law. It's up to everyone to know laws/rules whether that is not going 60 in a 40 mpg zone, not letting your dog run free in places where leashes are required, or carrying chains in your car.

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

When you read travel forums, city people have similar complaints about "country folk" or suburbanites---ie they don't know enough to not stop in the middle of the sidewalk or they don't understand not to stand in the subway door so people can't move in and out. The list goes on and on. It's just human nature to complain and also human nature to tend to not think of what the differences are between where you may live and where you may be visiting. I think the main point on both sides is to just try to be aware that there are differences that exist.

 

[RachelV]

...

*Maybe the super rich have more jerks in their ranks, I don't know. Though I personally doubt it. They probably just have more opportunity to be jerks to others. A lower income jerk or worse just stays home and abuses his family members and animals or whatnot.

I don't think the super rich have more jerks in their ranks, but I do think the super rich are used to living in a world where everyone falls over themselves to wait on them, which leads to a lot of a certain kind of entitled jerky behavior.

 

[altagirl]

@mustski @ski diva - People don't know unless they ask. It's always somebody's first time and if they've never been there before, how would they know? I still remember when a friend of mine was driving outside of Chicago with a friend of hers from the city and this girl was stunned to realize there are roads without streetlights. She had grown up in the city and just never been anywhere else. So I think cutting people some slack isn't a bad idea. Now, if they get all snotty and rude about the answer, that's another issue.

The chains thing - there are lots of places that chains aren't required, or are even forbidden. If you're from a place like that, the chains thing is hard to understand. And yes, people can google and read, but that doesn't replace "real people" language vs legal language. As many times as we've been to the mountains, I still have chain anxiety. And it doesn't help when you see that some certain cars with these tires and this kind of drive can get through but otherwise you need chains. Or when the rental car companies don't have to guarantee you a car that meets the requirements, and furthermore, won't let you put chains on them. Or even bother to ask you about it, for that matter.

Agreed - here it is AWD with snow tires OR chains and it still gets ignored constantly unless they post police at the base of the canyon and check every car.

But whatever the reasons for the local laws... you don't get to ignore them because they are not what you expected.

 

[Jenny]

But whatever the reasons for the local laws... you don't get to ignore them because they are not what you expected.

Totally understood.

 

[elemmac]

And yes, people can google and read, but that doesn't replace "real people" language vs legal language.

This is what I was thinking. When I research an area that I'm traveling to, I often search blogs and forums rather than just Googling. Most "Top 10" lists or articles are paid advertisements, even Google itself, businesses pay a lot of money to come up first in a search. I would rather get an opinion on restaurants, things to do, places to see, etc. first-hand. It's the same idea as people coming on this site and ask "what ski do I buy"...it allows you to get personalized answers, and there's a lot of value to that.

That being said, people don't use the search function on Facebook groups enough...this leads to the same question over and over. I do the same as Mustski...just ignore it. I've also left Facebook groups because the monotonous nature of people asking the same question that has already been answered the day before.

 

[santacruz skier]

When you read travel forums, city people have similar complaints about "country folk" or suburbanites---ie they don't know enough to not stop in the middle of the sidewalk or they don't understand not to stand in the subway door so people can't move in and out. The list goes on and on. It's just human nature to complain and also human nature to tend to not think of what the differences are between where you may live and where you may be visiting. I think the main point on both sides is to just try to be aware that there are differences that exist.

Don't get me started. I live in a beach city in CA that used to be a mellow laid back place. Students and retired folks. Tourists would visit from the Bay Area.
Now, entitled drivers ignoring crosswalks, cutting people off, asking the most absurd questions, ignoring mask mandates. No they don't live here.
There used to be a sign on the main freeway to get here, "Valley Go Home."
Well that wasn't good for tourism as was perceived that locals were acting entitled. The City took it down.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I was a condo owner at a large New England resort for four long, unhappy years. The amount of destruction/vandalism/theft - you name it - that went on in the units and common areas was jaw-dropping.

Of course, the owners always had to pick up the price tag, often in special assessments, for any expenses that exceeded the quarterly maintenance fees. And replace their unit’s furnishings or appliances.

It was a nightmare.

The “guests” (I use this term lightly, with a chuckle) were presumably all from out of town or out of state. Locals don’t rent condos. (I live in the general region.)

Complete and total disregard and disrespect for property and other people.

My unit, thankfully, was not on the rental program.

Every spring after the ski season ended, during unofficial condo clean-out weekend, mountains of destroyed furniture appeared outside, to be hauled to the town dump. Destroyed appliances. Name it.

And then the owners got to walk around the grounds to clean up the unmentionable messes that had been flung off the balconies.

It was like living out a scene in “Animal House.”

It forever changed my perception of tourists, at least to this particular resort. One of my happier days was the day I handed the keys to the new owner. Sayonara.

Just----wow.

 

[mustski]

Driving in the snow is for sure a big beef here as well. My favorite question … “it’s only a couple of inches of snow. Will I still need chains?” Yeeeees? It’s still slippery. We drove up Friday nights - in snowstorms for years. Oh the things we saw!

 

[MissySki]

I was a condo owner at a large New England resort for four long, unhappy years. The amount of destruction/vandalism/theft - you name it - that went on in the units and common areas was jaw-dropping.

Of course, the owners always had to pick up the price tag, often in special assessments, for any expenses that exceeded the quarterly maintenance fees. And replace their unit’s furnishings or appliances.

It was a nightmare.

The “guests” (I use this term lightly, with a chuckle) were presumably all from out of town or out of state. Locals don’t rent condos. (I live in the general region.)

Complete and total disregard and disrespect for property and other people.

My unit, thankfully, was not on the rental program.

Every spring after the ski season ended, during unofficial condo clean-out weekend, mountains of destroyed furniture appeared outside, to be hauled to the town dump. Destroyed appliances. Name it.

And then the owners got to walk around the grounds to clean up the unmentionable messes that had been flung off the balconies.

It was like living out a scene in “Animal House.”

It forever changed my perception of tourists, at least to this particular resort. One of my happier days was the day I handed the keys to the new owner. Sayonara.

Just----wow.

At Sunday River? I’m surprised to hear that. I’ve done seasonal rentals for awhile now and also own there myself, and I haven’t seen anything like this. It’s also always been very quiet where I’ve been in particular for each building too. It probably helps that most of the owners in my building don’t rent much and we have a management company (not Sunday River anymore) that’s responsible for any issues to common areas (and I believe individual units if they are in the rental program) if there were to be a problem. I usually run into the same friendly people and I haven’t heard about this being some ongoing issue of theft and vandalism run wild.. Obviously there are always the exceptions, and maybe your building was especially bad in whatever time you were there.. but the 3 associations I’ve dealt with in the past 3 years on mountain have been great. I love my building and condo unit.. and yep it’s a whole lot of out of staters just like myself. Though there are Mainers who own there too. I couldn’t care less where anyone is from, and I haven’t had an issue with anyone there yet whether renters or owners.

I also love to share my knowledge of the area when asked by renters or people who don’t know the area/mountain overall. Happens all the time, but I usually feel like we’re all on the same snow sport loving team and that gives us a common thread. I’ve never understood, and don’t think I ever will, the animosity that boils up based on where people are from. Having seen first hand how ugly that all got online during Covid, I choose to not even bother myself with it anymore because it was too depressing and frankly I can’t do anything if people choose to feel a certain way. If someone doesn’t want to like me or wants to make assumptions about me based on my license plate, well they probably aren’t people I would want to know anyway.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

@MissySki - very glad to hear that both renting and now ownership have worked out well for you. I believe the move by various condo associations to another management service other than Sunday River has made a big difference. This started to happen just at the end of my ownership tenure. Sunday River Management had “dropped the ball” on too many occasions : (

Yes, my condo was at Sunday River, early 2000's. Obviously, things have changed. I don’t recall the percentage of units in that building that were in the rental program, but it seemed like the majority at the time? Owner-occupied/utilized units always seemed to fare much better.

In no way did I intend to imply that anyone from anywhere else was to blame for this. The conversation herein is about tourists, from wherever they may hail. My perceptions were purely those of how tourists behaved, in my experience.

 

[elemmac]

@MissySki - very glad to hear that both renting and now ownership have worked out well for you. I believe the move by various condo associations to another management service other than Sunday River has made a big difference. This started to happen just at the end of my ownership tenure. Sunday River Management had “dropped the ball” on too many occasions : (

Yes, my condo was at Sunday River, early 2000's. Obviously, things have changed. I don’t recall the percentage of units in that building that were in the rental program, but it seemed like the majority at the time? Owner-occupied/utilized units always seemed to fare much better.

From the sounds of it…you owned at Brookside (you don’t have to confirm nor deny that assumption).

It makes a HUGE difference if you’re in an association with lots of renters vs owners. When purchasing, I didn’t even consider certain associations based on the size of their rental pool. Confirming your thoughts that Sunday River leaving the condo management business made a massive difference. I bought at the tail end of Sunday River management (only was with them for one season), and it seems to be the general consensus that they didn’t manage well, dropped the ball a lot, and most associations seem to be better off than they were previously.

Luckily I’ve had very few run-ins with obnoxious, loud or destructive renters. The bad apples seem to be in the minority, though they are also the most memorable.