Help Needed: How to Approach a Personal Demo Day

[CrystalRose]

@Analisa, first, crazy story about the boyfriend! New Year’s Eve?! I'm sure you're better off without him! And yes, I have the Cheyennes. I plan on bringing them with me to Divawest. Haven't been back on them since that first try back in December. Since there is space in my car, I figure why not. I'm curious how they will feel now that I'm skiing better and they will be on softer snow conditions. Pretty much have completely written them off, I’m not concerned how they do either way.

Thanks to your pep talk I’m putting the K2 Luvsick 80Ti back on the list. Towards the bottom but still.

 

[mustski]

I've been looking at the weather and for now it's supposed to snow/rain? everyday during Divawest. But that may change as we get closer to the time. Which makes me concerned because the snow is going to be much softer than the conditions I really ski- man-made hardpack. How they perform at Mammoth vs Big Bear may be very different. Oh well, I'm on vacation and it's something fun to do!

Ignore the rain stuff. It will snow on the mountain. There will be plenty of groomed runs and if you stay on the green runs, you will be fine. There will be soft snow on top, but the run underneath will be nice and smooth.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

Yes I remember @Olesya Chornoguz from the big ski length thread! She was 6'1" and around 180 lbs. She said her first ski was 166 cm. I remember all that because I felt she might make a good benchmark at 1" taller and about 20 lbs heavier. It helped me settle on my 160-165 cm range. But more than happy if she has any tips to add.

Hi there. sorry for not getting back to you earlier - just saw your thread. You are correct - I am 6'1" and now closer to 188 pounds - winter weight gain! You are correct that when I had my first skis (K2 Superfree - soft ski) were 167 or 166 cm long. I was probably a low intermediate or advanced beginner at that point.

Yes, I think for your described ability 160-165 cm is good. I think I would avoid skis under 160, unless they are stiffer, but you mentioned that you wanted a softer ski and yes, you are right, soft ski is probably better for you currently. So I would say closer to to 165 should be good, also if there are women's demo skis in 165-170 cm you could demo those too. Though women's demo skis in lengths above 165 are really hard to come by in my experience. I suppose what I am trying to say demo 160-170 cm long skis if available and then decide what length/what ski. @marzNC brought up a good point about demoing multiple lengths, that's worthwhile doing if multiple lengths for the same ski are available

Something to note that the good thing with going wit skis that are 165-170 cm is that you may be able to ski and enjoy them for a few seasons whereas the 160 cm long ones you may outgrow quickly depending how much you ski. I think I outgrew my 166 cm K2 rather quickly - about a season or less, I think. Hope this helps! Good luck and hope you find a ski that is perfect for YOU!

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

Out of the skis you listed for demoing I only tried Santa Ana 93 mm in 166 cm 1 season ago and didn't like them. I think they were too short for me. I'm also much heavier than you though. So they may work well for you, a lot of Divas love Santa Anas. I have head a lot of great things about Atomic Vantage and Armada Victa. I remember reading on another forum that @pinto demoed them and liked them. Pinto is tall and light for her height from what I understand, but she is an expert skier.

 

[CrystalRose]

Thanks for your opinion @Olesya Chornoguz! I feel like 165 is definitely my sweet spot. It's a length I know I can handle but not something I would outgrow as quickly as a ~160. The thing I'm wrestling with now is that most of the skis I want to try have both a 160- 165 cm and 165-170 cm option. Ideally I would take out both lengths for every ski but I don't think I have that kind of time. Somehow, I'm going to have to be systematic about how I choose which length to try. My best bet is to not get so hung up on the numbers but the feel on snow. Some lengths may not be available so the decision will be made for me.

New demo list:

1. Absolute Joy- 163 vs 168
2. Yumi- 161 vs 168
3. Atomic Vantage 85w- 165 (longest available)
4. Armada Victa - 159 vs 167
5. Nordica Astral 84- 165 (has a 158 & 172 but not interested in either)
6. k2 Luvit76 - 163 (longest available)
7. k2 Luvsick 80 ti - 163 (has a 170 but not that interested..)
8. Black Pearl 88 - 166
9. Santa Ana 93- 161 vs 169

As for the Santa Anas (and the BP 88), it's just something fun to try. Everybody raves about them and I just want to see what a "wide" ski feels like but if I can't get to it I won't be upset. Same goes for all the skis under 6.

 

[marzNC]

I feel like 165 is definitely my sweet spot. It's a length I know I can handle but not something I would outgrow as quickly as a ~160. The thing I'm wrestling with now is that most of the skis I want to try have both a 160- 165 cm and 165-170 cm option. Ideally I would take out both lengths for every ski but I don't think I have that kind of time. Somehow, I'm going to have to be systematic about how I choose which length to try. My best bet is to not get so hung up on the numbers but the feel on snow. Some lengths may not be available so the decision will be made for me.

Flipping around what I do as a petite skier, think about taking out the longest length that's available for a given model. I've had situations when the shortest length available is still on the long side. But I still learn something about how that model feels. I think I learn more in some ways from skis that I don't like than ones that are fun for whatever reason.

You don't need to take out two lengths for every model. But good to try to take out one model in two lengths. Doesn't even matter if that's a favorite or not.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

Flipping around what I do as a petite skier, think about taking out the longest length that's available for a given model. I've had situations when the shortest length available is still on the long side. But I still learn something about how that model feels. I think I learn more in some ways from skis that I don't like than ones that are fun for whatever reason.

You don't need to take out two lengths for every model. But good to try to take out one model in two lengths. Doesn't even matter if that's a favorite or not.

@CrystalRose I completely agree with the above! Try one model in 2 lengths and see how you feel! A few comments on your updated list - I would stay above 165 if possible and demo 1-2 skis under 165 just to see how it feels. I think even though you are lightweight, being 6' tall 165-170 cm is a better length to grow into. I agree with you in that I would steer clear of the skis close to 170 that have a lot of metal so I agree K2 Luvsick 80 Ti in 170 could be a lot of a ski. I haven't demoed it but just read it has a full sheet of metal, so something to keep in mind.

I have a confession to make - I skied 170 cm 2013 Kenjas for about 3 seasons as my 2nd ski and while they were super stable, fun and I could bend them and carve on groomers quite well I think a bit softer skis would have helped to improve faster than Kenjas. My current daily driver is a ski with carbon (no metal). Also it's great you are demoing skis in the 80 mm range, great width to improve on and they will be quite versatile! Santa Anas 93 aren't too wide if you ski in Lake Tahoe a lot. I see that you are in CA, so 80-90 mm is a great width. Good luck and tell us your impressions after demoing!

 

[santacruz skier]

I'm in Tahoe for the week and was given a free demo today as took my black crows to shop for hot wax and not done this morning. So demoed the Head Wild Joy at 90 underfoot... A wide shovel and what a fun ski to lay down the carve in Tahoe.... I'm petite and lightweight so demoed the 153. Think I want one!

 

[CrystalRose]

@CrystalRose I completely agree with the above! Try one model in 2 lengths and see how you feel! A few comments on your updated list - I would stay above 165 if possible and demo 1-2 skis under 165 just to see how it feels. I think even though you are lightweight, being 6' tall 165-170 cm is a better length to grow into. I agree with you in that I would steer clear of the skis close to 170 that have a lot of metal so I agree K2 Luvsick 80 Ti in 170 could be a lot of a ski. I haven't demoed it but just read it has a full sheet of metal, so something to keep in mind.

I have a confession to make - I skied 170 cm 2013 Kenjas for about 3 seasons as my 2nd ski and while they were super stable, fun and I could bend them and carve on groomers quite well I think a bit softer skis would have helped to improve faster than Kenjas. My current daily driver is a ski with carbon (no metal). Also it's great you are demoing skis in the 80 mm range, great width to improve on and they will be quite versatile! Santa Anas 93 aren't too wide if you ski in Lake Tahoe a lot. I see that you are in CA, so 80-90 mm is a great width. Good luck and tell us your impressions after demoing!

The K2 Luvsick 80 Ti is on the list just because I really liked my K2 rentals and wondered if it was a brand thing or just that ski. Also if I liked it, there is the K2 Luvstruck 80 which is supposedly the same ski with no metal. But it's low on the list, more to answer the question of what does a ski with metal feel like?

I've never skied Lake Tahoe though I might next year thanks to the Ikon Pass. Mostly, I'll be at Mammoth and Big Bear Resorts with maybe a random Colorado/Utah/somewhere else trip thrown in. The skis don't have to be good for those conditions though.

How long did you keep your 1st ski? How much were you skiing? Just wondering for a ball park of how fast someone may outgrow their 1st ski if they buy them on the shorter side...

 

[Analisa]

My first pair were shorter than recommended for my height/ability level and I skied them for a season and a half, some of which I was skiing them too short and didn't realize I needed to size up. Probably 35-40 days on them while they fit?

 

[CrystalRose]

My first pair were shorter than recommended for my height/ability level and I skied them for a season and a half, some of which I was skiing them too short and didn't realize I needed to size up. Probably 35-40 days on them while they fit?

This is very helpful! I also wonder when people say they outgrew their skis fast what is "fast"? Personally, if I get 12-15 days a season I'm golden. So in theory, even if my first skis are short they could last me several seasons...

 

[marzNC]

This is very helpful! I also wonder when people say they outgrew their skis fast what is "fast"? Personally, if I get 12-15 days a season I'm golden. So in theory, even if my first skis are short they could last me several seasons...

As you have correctly figured out, it all depends on how often and where someone gets to ski after buying their first pair of good skis.

Here's my story of buying skis after starting to ski every winter after getting my daughter hooked . . .

After it was clear my daughter liked skiing (started age 4), the first pair of skis I bought were super short former rental skis from eBay for $100. Didn't know about online ski forums or ski swaps back then. I had my own boots that were obsolete but better than renting. The skis were 136cm (currently I use 145-168cm, depending on the design). Those short skis were fine for an intermediate skiing with an intermediate kid at small hills in the southeast. Better than renting for $25/day. We were skiing no more than 15 days locally. I rented demo skis when I traveled out west. Didn't buy good skis until two years later after going to my first free demo day (Sugar in NC) for a few hours. Didn't buy skis that day but bought good 4-buckle boots at an early season sales price. The skis I bought during late season sales were from a brand I liked at the demo day, but I hadn't actually skied that model. Maybe $250? Used them for a couple seasons. By then I'd started reading ski forums and started taking two trips out west a season, a mid-season trip with adult friends and a late season trip with my daughter to Alta. Found a perfect ski demo'ing during a Diva West in north Tahoe. Bought during the summer for $400 online, used them two seasons exclusively, and a couple more at Massanutten, sold them to a Ski Diva for $125 because I'd bought the next all-mountain skis for trips out west after a personal demo day at another Diva West.

As with many Divas who ski in assorted snow conditions, I have essentially a quiver of two. One narrower and shorter pair that I mostly use in the Mid-Atlantic and in the northeast. Another all-mountain that I take when I fly out west. I rent powder skis when I get lucky, rarely more than a day or two during a 1-week trip.

As always, this is just what's worked for me, not a recommendation for anyone else. YMMV

 

[CarverJill]

Demo-ing can be fun but also really frustrating because it takes a lot of time to go in and out switching skis. I haven't read the whole thread but keep in mind most of the time the shop only has each ski in one length, usually the middle option. I'm 5'9" and back when I was trying to figure out what I wanted I had to try and imagine what the ski would be like in the correct length rather than actually try that length. At your height I'd say you will probably want to go for the longest option, whatever they have that's closest to 170 but also keep in mind being on a shorter ski is okay. I skied on 120's when I initially switched back to skiing after snowboarding for 10 years. Then I moved up to a 149, 160 and now have the correct length skis for me at 168. Shorter skis are easier to turn on but make it tougher to hold on ice or stay afloat in powder.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

The K2 Luvsick 80 Ti is on the list just because I really liked my K2 rentals and wondered if it was a brand thing or just that ski. Also if I liked it, there is the K2 Luvstruck 80 which is supposedly the same ski with no metal. But it's low on the list, more to answer the question of what does a ski with metal feel like?

I've never skied Lake Tahoe though I might next year thanks to the Ikon Pass. Mostly, I'll be at Mammoth and Big Bear Resorts with maybe a random Colorado/Utah/somewhere else trip thrown in. The skis don't have to be good for those conditions though.

How long did you keep your 1st ski? How much were you skiing? Just wondering for a ball park of how fast someone may outgrow their 1st ski if they buy them on the shorter side...

I hear you on the Luvsick, I agree you should try it if you are curios to see how a ski with metal feels like. Ok, I see where you are skiing, still what I meant is 80-90 mm wide skis will be great for most days where you are skiing and same for occasional CO/UT trip.

I kept my first pair for about a season which was approximately 25-30 ski days for me. I outgrew them quickly or it felt that way, but I started skiing 25+ ski days that season and took a fair amount of lessons. If you get 12-15 days a season then yes those skis could last you a few seasons.

 

[Powgirl]

The K2 Luvsick 80 Ti is on the list just because I really liked my K2 rentals and wondered if it was a brand thing or just that ski. Also if I liked it, there is the K2 Luvstruck 80 which is supposedly the same ski with no metal. But it's low on the list, more to answer the question of what does a ski with metal feel like?

I've never skied Lake Tahoe though I might next year thanks to the Ikon Pass. Mostly, I'll be at Mammoth and Big Bear Resorts with maybe a random Colorado/Utah/somewhere else trip thrown in. The skis don't have to be good for those conditions though.

How long did you keep your 1st ski? How much were you skiing? Just wondering for a ball park of how fast someone may outgrow their 1st ski if they buy them on the shorter side...

I ski the LuvStruck 80...I chose it because it's very lightweight, which I need for my bad knee...it has very good camber/edge hold...It also has a pretty good sized shovel for powder/chop/crud. I also wanted a short turn radius, which at my size is about 12...they turn on a dime, yet allow for medium/long turns, too.

I have skied them pretty hard this year (30 days). A couple of weeks ago, I skied them thru some deeper powder(over a foot), bumps, trees, some off piste...this last weekend, I skied them on hard pack, some ice, cruised down a black run at Copper with confidence...they tend to float on the crud and chop vs. power thru it, but I prefer a more playful performance with my ski...and this seems to be easier on my knee, too.

The only drawback for me is they didn't perform well on frozen marbles/chicken heads last spring...they vibrated A LOT...but, I really hate skiing in that condition anyway...they performed well in last year's spring slush. I would probably have some trouble with super deep powder, big mountain type of terrain due to its width...but, I don't do that type of skiing right now either.

I can ski them all day without fatigue! It's been a great ski for me as I'm approaching being an advanced skier!

I am a big fan of K2 skis...it would be great if you could demo both the LuvStruck and Luvsick...

 

[CrystalRose]

Thanks for the advice @CarverJill. I plan on asking what lengths they have available before I commit to the demo. I agree that it does kind of suck to go back and fourth and "lose a day" on demoing. But I'm going to stay optimistic and say it will be fun, maybe not after the 5th or 6th time inside but still.

I am a big fan of K2 skis...it would be great if you could demo both the LuvStruck and Luvsick...

Thanks @Powgirl for the detailed review of the K2! Yea unfortunately for me, they only have the one option so I have to use my imagination for the other. That seems to be the name of the game for demoing.

Been looking at men's skis lately because I am so tall I know there is some overlap. Now I remember why I had stopped looking before! All the skis are rated intermediate-advanced (not necessarily a problem) but say things like "charging" and "ripping". I'm not trying to do any of that!! Plus, the shortest length is like a 165 usually (not always). Like for the Armada Victa 83 the longest length is 167cm, but for the Armada Invictus 85 the shortest length is 167. I really feel bad for the shorter lightweight guy.

Oh well, If my list doesn't pan out because of availability, I might just ask the shop for what they recommend. There are a couple of skis I want to like the most but we shall see. Definitely plan on updating with my thoughts. I'm getting excited, Tuesday will be here before you know it!

 

[Analisa]

@CrystalRose - fun fact that might make you feel a bit better looking at the men's versions. Women make up 41% of skiers, but only 13% of skiers that self-identify as experts. We're not disproportionately bad at skiing. There's just some dude named Mike with your same level of skills who tomahawked and snowplowed his way down a groomed black diamond and decided he needs a pretty aggressive ski now. They don't make a ton of beginner skis for men because Mike doesn't think he needs one. It happens a lot when I dip into shops with friends - women newer to the sport are steered towards really soft skis while with guys, the attitude's more "you seem athletic, so let's go with something intermediate-advanced." Same goes for the marketing descriptors - Salomon makes the same skis and only changes the top sheets, but the product descriptions for the men's skis sound way more aggressive than the women's, especially for the easier skis like the 85 and 92. Nothing makes me giggle harder than the idea that the 92's will "Tip in and roll over some euro carves in even the sketchiest of snow conditions."

I agree it's not great for either gender. I have a lot of guy friends who learned just enough to start backcountry touring and got sold a ski that's too much and have some pretty peculiar technique, and yet a lot of gal pals who outgrow skis every season.

The differences between men's and women's ski vary a lot depending on the manufacturer. For Blizzard, the Black Pearl & Brahma/Bonafide lines are very different due to the sheets of metal added. For Salomon, it's the same ski with a different color & name. Same goes for Armada - the Victa & Invictus you're looking at are actually the same ski. It gets wider as it gets larger, from 81 in the 151 to 85 in the 185, but the 167 is a 83 for both the Invictus & Victa, and they share the 123-83-113 dimensions and 17m turn radius.

Skiing the high 160s to low 170s is so freaking rad because we have the have the most options to choose from on both sides of the aisle and have a better chance at finding the exact ski we want - even down to the color of the topsheets for manufacturers like Armada and Salomon. Don't let marketing teams and guys like Mike intimidate you from trying your dream ski ;-)

 

[CrystalRose]

@CrystalRose - fun fact that might make you feel a bit better looking at the men's versions. Women make up 41% of skiers, but only 13% of skiers that self-identify as experts. We're not disproportionately bad at skiing. There's just some dude named Mike with your same level of skills who tomahawked and snowplowed his way down a groomed black diamond and decided he needs a pretty aggressive ski now. They don't make a ton of beginner skis for men because Mike doesn't think he needs one.

Aaahh! That makes sense, I forgot to add male bravado and ego into the equation! Tsk! That makes things harder because there are probably Men's beginner skis that are labeled "intermediate" for marketing purposes. That goes down the rabbit hole of, "Are women's skis necessary?". I'm going to lean toward yes if for no other reason, the products are more approachable for women buyers. Unfortunately, women do second themselves and have more fear than men generally. Those men skis might as well had skulls and crossbones on the topsheets based on their descriptions, smh. I'm not going to lose any sleep over the state of gender relations and ski marketing for now. Just going to go forward with my somewhat flexible list and hope for the best.

 

[VickiK]

@CrystalRose are you thinking of demo-ing at Mammoth?

 

[CrystalRose]

Yep! Skiing Sunday and Monday to get a lay of the land and going to take Tuesday and try out some stuff. The mountain is pricey but convenient.