How do you ski faster?

[SkiPAGal]

I'm an advanced intermediate skier. I point my skis down the hill and do a few turns on any nice groomed blue or black. I always feel like I'm going fast until my husband blows past me. He used to have ridiculously long skis (210's) and I had 180s. Now he's got 178s and mine are a little shorter (brand new and honestly don't remember). He still is blowing past me like I'm standing still.

I see women skiers barrelling down the mountain making beautiful s turns. How are they doing that? I know I'm not a slow skier, but just can't figure out how to take it up a notch to get more speed.

 

[altagirl]

I'm an advanced intermediate skier. I point my skis down the hill and do a few turns on any nice groomed blue or black. I always feel like I'm going fast until my husband blows past me. He used to have ridiculously long skis (210's) and I had 180s. Now he's got 178s and mine are a little shorter (brand new and honestly don't remember). He still is blowing past me like I'm standing still.

I see women skiers barrelling down the mountain making beautiful s turns. How are they doing that? I know I'm not a slow skier, but just can't figure out how to take it up a notch to get more speed.

Assuming you're making equal turns, there are a couple factors:

Most important is weight+ski length. I'm guessing this might be the biggest factor. My husband has about 30-40lbs on me and whether we're on bikes or skis, if we're straightlining down something, he can usually pick up speed faster and blow me away. There's not much you can do about that unless you really want to gain a bunch of weight...

That said, there are days I've passed him on the flats. This is where things like your ski wax come into play. It's not just a matter of fresh wax, but the right wax for the snow temperature. Or an aerodynamic body position - whether it's tucking your arms behind your back on a flat, getting into a tuck or drafting people when you're on a flat traverse - that makes a difference too.

The other thing is your turns. If you're making turns that scrub speed, or are rounder, or something like that, it's obviously going to slow you down. To go really fast, you'd be making large radius railroad track style turns. Check your tracks on some morning when the corduroy is fresh and see if they're nice and clean or if you're sending off a wave of snow as you turn.

Mind you, you don't always WANT to be going that fast, and need to be confident you can stop for it to be any fun! ;)

 

[volklgirl]

It's hard to say why he is faster than you without seeing you ski. It could be weight, technique, or equipment.

In general, though...
Most people turn to slow down using a skidding motion at some point during that turn (skiing the fast line slow). The truly fast skiers, however, turn to speed up by by using terrain features and a truly carved turn to accelerate (skiing the slow line fast).

Fast line slow:
l l
\ \
/ / skid
l l
/ /
\ \ skid
l l

Slow line Fast:
( (
) )
( (
) )

 

[liquidfeet]

Last year I sped up amazingly. This happened for two reasons. First, I skied 50 days during the season, and the hours on snow built confidence and skill.

Second, I bought a new pair of skis. All the guys I ski with said I shouldn't buy them because they were too stiff for me to bend. Well, let me tell you..... they were wrong. Go fast enough and they will bend because of the build-up of forces under the foot!

These skis rock! Suddenly I discovered that I could go fast and not panic, because the skis didn't wobble at speed as did the old ones. I could all of a sudden begin to teach myself to handle the speed, whereas before I was braking all the time because the skis just wouldn't stay stable at speed.

So the change in skis allowed me to go fast without wobble/chatter; the number of days on snow gave me the opportunity to learn to handle that speed.

The old skis were short (154), had a tight slalom-style turn radius of 12 meters, and a core of foam. Nobody told me that I couldn't keep up with the fast boys on these skis, but it couldn't be done. They were made to turn often since they were slalom skis, and thus go slow. Going fast requires turning less often.

The new skis were a bit longer (160), have a longer GS-style turn radius of 16 meters, and a core of titanium. The titanium keeps them from shaking at speed. The longer turn radius (very important!!! Why don't they tell you about this in the shops???) allows me to make longer turns and thus go faster. If these skis had a turn radius of 21m I'd really be scary.

It's the turn radius, not the length of ski, that really determines its "speed". Length depends on your weight more than anything else, plus what you want to do on the snow.

I hope this info will help. What kind of skis do you ski on?

 

[perma-grin]

Nicely put Volklgirl! I may need to borrow that explanation for my next clinic. P.S are you going to be at the Highlands for the PSIA event this weekend?

 

[volklgirl]

Nicely put Volklgirl! I may need to borrow that explanation for my next clinic. P.S are you going to be at the Highlands for the PSIA event this weekend?

Nope, but have fun! You'll have to give us a run-down on anything cool you learned.

SkiPAGal-
Liquifeet did a great post on the equipment portion of the equation! I find that at least 75% of skiers (and an even greater % of women) who say that they don't like to ski fast are merely hampered by their equipment. Once they've been put in boots that truly fit and get on skis that are the correct (usually longer) length and appropriate stiffness (usually stiffer) and side-cut (16+ meters), their speed tends to jump by a significant amount. The confidence at speed that the proper equipment inspires then allows the skier to play with speed and terrain, eventually leading to that Aha!...Yeeee-Haaaaa!!! moment when speed becomes a thing of beauty.

If "Faster" is truly a goal of yours, hire a race coach to examine your equipment and technique....sometimes just 1 little tip from an exceptional coach will be all it takes once the equipment is spot-on.

 

[Kiragirl]

without reading posts, it sounds like you are doing better than him, if he's just "blowing past" you. he probably does not turn, or is leaning back. You can go straight down the mountain if you want to, but it really hurts when you hit the parking lot. : )

 

[volklgirl]

You can go straight down the mountain if you want to, but it really hurts when you hit the parking lot. : )

:ROTF: :ROTF: Dang Pepsi!!!!

Now I gotta clean my keepboard again.

 

[sibhusky]

Since my accident, I think I will be slower than ever. My daughter was able to blow by me last year (racer) already. I've always had the mental issue ("Cripes! If I fall at this speed I'll die!") and now I've had the accident to slow me down even more. That being said, there are some who think I ski extremely fast. It's all relative. I do like to keep my vertical statistics high. :D

 

[smpayne]

You can go straight down the mountain if you want to, but it really hurts when you hit the parking lot. : )

That's what the wall of snowboarders sitting in the snow is for.

I never used to think that I skiied terribly slow, but the guys were always having to wait for me. Now I actually give them a head start, because by the end of last season, I was always right behind them.

Why would I give them a head start? Have you ever had to drive home with a guy that was being out skiied by a girl? Well that and I can watch their skiing and when they stop to "wait" for me they get to see how I am skiing. It does help when someone points out that you were leaning a little too far back or were skidding a few turns.

 

[Pequenita]

I've been rereading Liquidfeet's post and pondering it b/c I cannot figure out what was going on the last time I was out on the slope. I was skiing the Nordica Victory in 146 (turn radius something like 12m) that had whatever wax on them that they have when you take the shiny plastic off them.

Anyway, I was wicked fast from about 9am to 11am (after which the snow started softening up and turning mashed potatoey). So, part of me is wondering if my slowdown was due to wax and conditions. The only reason I even noticed that I was wicked fast earlier was that there were few people on the slope and I'm so slow at the top of the lift getting my straps through my mitts that regularly 3 to 4 people behind me on the lifts would start off the mountain before me.

But, they'd go off and be like 200 yards ahead of me, and before long - when making both short and long radius turns (I mixed it up each run b/c I was trying to figure out if it was me just taking straighter lines down the hill), I would fly by everyone. I was even trying to ski slow by making deliberate J turns on one run, but after a few J turns, I thought that would be a little too dangerous to the skiers above me, so I just went back to normal turns.

Anyway, lest anyone going to Solitude get the sense that I'm a speed demon, I don't think I am, which is why it is puzzling to me why I was consistently cruising by everyone, even when I gave them a head start. I guess my question really is, under what circustances will a skier make a ski w/ a short radius move fast? I mean, my technique's not crap, but if a short radius ski isn't supposed to cruise this fast, it makes me wonder if something funky is going on.....

 

[liquidfeet]

I guess my question really is, under what circustances will a skier make a ski w/ a short radius move fast?[/B] I mean, my technique's not crap, but if a short radius ski isn't supposed to cruise this fast, it makes me wonder if something funky is going on.....

Could it be that you were carving, and others were doing linked braking turns? Skidding/braking is slower; just think of linked hockey stops. Carving is faster, no matter what the size of turn radius.

And then I could have been wrong about turn radius, too. This last Thursday I took an all-day clinic with Pam Fletcher and Lisa Densmore, former US Ski Team racers, and they do know their stuff. I asked the question about turn radius -- that I'd read that you can always shorten the turn radius of a ski by bending it and still carve your turns. But you can't lengthen the radius and still carve. They both said bull. So.... maybe you were just carving more purely than the slow-pokes on the hill, no matter the turn size.

 

[volklgirl]

It is entirely possible to lengthen a turn on short turn radius skis.

To turn, you tip then pressure. By tipping without pressuring, you can draw out that turn considerably. When you're ready to end the turn, just pressure the ski and it should whip into the finish and be ready to blast into the next turn. This is the hallmark of the greatest racers - the ability to really edge that ski super early in the turn then be patient during the turn until just before the gate. Pressure at this point finishes the turn at the gate without skidding and leaves the racer ready for the next turn on the "high and tight" line.

The only issue you may get as a short radius ski approaches its speed limit on a longer turn is some tip flap and chatter because the ski is not being pressured.

 

[liquidfeet]

To turn, you tip then pressure. By tipping without pressuring, you can draw out that turn considerably. When you're ready to end the turn, just pressure the ski and it should whip into the finish and be ready to blast into the next turn. This is the hallmark of the greatest racers - the ability to really edge that ski super early in the turn then be patient during the turn until just before the gate. Pressure at this point finishes the turn at the gate without skidding and leaves the racer ready for the next turn on the "high and tight" line.

Boy would I like to be able to do this. Haven't got a clue!

 

[Pequenita]

Wow. Thanks, ladies, for demystifying the mechanics!

 

[volklgirl]

Boy would I like to be able to do this. Haven't got a clue!

Get somebody to set a short course on a verrry flat hill (like 4-6 gates, maybe) with some helper gates or brushes on the "rise line" about 1/4-1/3 the distance below each gate. Try to get your hips really low with high edge angles, then be very patient at the start of the turn and try to finish each turn between the gate and the helper, changing edges and being ready to start the next turn right at the helper without skidding. It's really hard at first, but gets way easier as you do it a bunch. Oh yeah, use your slalom skis while getting the feeling for this - they make it much, much easier. If your edge angle isn't high enough, your skis will skid or skip out from under you the minute you put the pressure on, dumping you unceremoniously on your butt.

 

[liquidfeet]

Get somebody to set a short course on a verrry flat hill (like 4-6 gates, maybe) with some helper gates or brushes on the "rise line" about 1/4-1/3 the distance below each gate. Try to get your hips really low with high edge angles, then be very patient at the start of the turn and try to finish each turn between the gate and the helper, changing edges and being ready to start the next turn right at the helper without skidding. It's really hard at first, but gets way easier as you do it a bunch. Oh yeah, use your slalom skis while getting the feeling for this - they make it much, much easier. If your edge angle isn't high enough, your skis will skid or skip out from under you the minute you put the pressure on, dumping you unceremoniously on your butt.

VGirl, this is very helpful. I really appreciate it. Thanks. I'll drop some koolaide on the snow to serve as gates and helpers, since I'll have to set this up myself. Hope the mountain won't mind.

Here are two more questions. You say:
"If your edge angle isn't high enough, your skis will skid or skip out from under you the minute you put the pressure on."

1. When does the putting the pressure on happen, at the top or the middle or the end of the turn?
2. When I put the pressure on, do you mean literally I should force myself to pressure the skis more than gravity and centrifugal force do together naturally? If so, how do I do that?

 

[SnowHot]

Vgirls post is one of the most well put when it comes to cleaning up you carve.
I remember starting a thread on Epic called, My size and My speed, which almost mimics this thread.

I got a lot of advice, but nothing helped me until I had a day of Skiing with Kneale Brownson, and he gave me a couple tips to lose my stem.
Each time you stem a turn, you'll scrub off speed. When you flex your boot, get your inside knee moving in the direction you want to go and you'll be shocked at the speed you pick up. Clean speed.

My husband still skis "old school" scrubbing off speed every time the tails make a turn............he's really really annoyed that I'm kicking his butt!

 

[volklgirl]

1. When does the putting the pressure on happen, at the top or the middle or the end of the turn?
2. When I put the pressure on, do you mean literally I should force myself to pressure the skis more than gravity and centrifugal force do together naturally? If so, how do I do that?

1. To lengthen out turns on a "SL" ski, the pressure would happen later in the turn. How late depends on how big you want the turn to be - the earlier you pressure, the shorter the turn will be. In the gates, you'll know if you're being patient enough and if you're pressuring too early or too late - too early and you'll have to slide sideways so you don't turn before the gate, too late and you'll have to skid to finish the turn before you get to the helper gate.
2. Yes. This is a physical movement, not just the effects of gravity, centripital force, or inertia. The real question here should actually be "how do I NOT pressure my skis after I edge them?". Once you have this part figured out, the movements needed to then apply pressure later in the turn should just happen naturally. In general, you'll want to feel like you're pulling your legs in to your body to achieve the "edge without pressure". When you're ready to apply pressure push your legs out, press down on your toes, and drive your knees into the turn. The skis should just rocket through the finish of the turn and spring into the next.

A note here, just to keep us on track.....
We're discussing lengthening the turn on a short radius ski. For normal skiing and racing, early edge engagement and pressure very high in the turn is the goal for efficient skiing!

 

[liquidfeet]

1. To lengthen out turns on a "SL" ski, the pressure would happen later in the turn. How late depends on how big you want the turn to be - the earlier you pressure, the shorter the turn will be. In the gates, you'll know if you're being patient enough and if you're pressuring too early or too late - too early and you'll have to slide sideways so you don't turn before the gate, too late and you'll have to skid to finish the turn before you get to the helper gate.
2. Yes. This is a physical movement, not just the effects of gravity, centripital force, or inertia. The real question here should actually be "how do I NOT pressure my skis after I edge them?". Once you have this part figured out, the movements needed to then apply pressure later in the turn should just happen naturally. In general, you'll want to feel like you're pulling your legs in to your body to achieve the "edge without pressure". When you're ready to apply pressure push your legs out, press down on your toes, and drive your knees into the turn. The skis should just rocket through the finish of the turn and spring into the next.

I'm going to print this out and practice, practice, practice. Thanks.