How do you figure out if you'll "grow" into a ski?

[Christy]

I learned to ski last year and I'm a low intermediate (I'm happy on blues on my local hill--Snoqualmie--but I'm happier on greens at bigger resorts like Whistler). I'm 5'5", 120 and ski in the PNW. I want to buy skis and two ski stores both recommended the Nordica Olympia Drive; two salesmen recommended the 154s, while another recommended the 146s. 154s seem quite long for me considering what I've read in this forum about ski length. I've skied on 155s, 153s, and 149s, and was happiest on the smallest (though it seems like snow conditions are what really makes a difference in my skiing). I'm going to demo the skis, and I can demo both sizes, though the shops are off mountain so it'll have to be on different days. I'm assuming I will be happier now on the shorter skis, but the two sales guys told me that I'll "grow out of" them in a couple years. They said if I got the 154s, I'll be happy for 10 years. So how am I supposed to figure out if the 154s are indeed right for me, if they are skis I am supposed to grow into? And if I just love the 146s, will they hold me back as I continue to develop? Thanks.

 

[bklyn]

IMO, there is a reasonable expectation for skill improvement at the level you're at now. (Beginner -> Low Intermediate) If you were to rent/demo then you could continue using equipment designed for a beginner.

Now that you're going to purchase, you should consider skis designed for a solid intermediate at a minimum. You're going to be at that skill level well before the skis wear out. Purchasing something designed for a beginner is a waste of your money and you will grow out of them quickly.

I personally plan to use a pair of skis for 2-3 seasons, at the end of that, they're pretty worn out and I feel that I've gotten my money's worth.

 

[Christy]

Any opinions as to whether the 146s would be right for me, or if I do need the longer ski? I'm wondering if I need a 146 based on my weight regardless of my ability level, and I'm not sure that I'll be able to make an informed decision based on the demo (how will I be able to tell if the 154s are just too long, or if they won't be too long as I advance?). The ski itself is designed for intermediates.

 

[atlantiqueen]

Hi Christy

I am in no way an"expert" but I will share my experience with you.
I began skiing in earnest last year. I did a little bit of skiing (greens) in 2005 and was given 146 and 148cm to rent.

When I bought skis, I bought Rossi Saphirs in 150cm. I am 5'2" tall and weigh around 150-155 (so a lot heavier than you but little shorter). I was very happy with the entry-level/low intermediate 150s until I began to improve. This year, I found them too chattery, too soft and just not aggressive enough. I got a great deal on a pair of Fischer Visions and bought them. I was concerned that the length (158cm) would be too much for me but they are fabulous. I'm not suggesting you go out and buy something in that length but I think you will be disappointed if you don't buy a ski that you wil progress on - once I changed skis, I could see a marked difference in my skiing. The increased stability that came with the lenght and wider waist helped my confidence and I now ski blacks regularly.

Not sure if this helps but I just had to give my opinion

 

[Kimmyt]

Christy, in your thread on Epic you mentioned finding the 154s hard to control, right? I would be hesitant to buy a ski that I found hard to control right off the bat. You may be hindering your ability to improve.

FWIW I am only 10 lbs heavier than you and 5'3" and ski a 152 right now, which is pretty much in the middle of your choices. If the 149s make you happy I don't think you'll be regrettiung the length too soon. Maybe in a year or two, but by that time you'll probably want a more advanced ski anyway.

K.

 

[jaydog]

Welcome Christy, Snoqualmie Pass is also my home hill!! Glad to see another PNWer.

I can't weigh in on the Drive, but I can give you a little bit of a comparison. From what I understand, the Olympia line tends to run short. I did fine on a 154cm Victory (advanced/expert ski) when I'm usually better off in the low 160s. I'm a tad heavier than you, (5'5" 130lbs) and an advanced skier. So the 146 will probably suit you. And you'll want to upgrade to a more advanced ski anyway as you improve.

I'm not a technical expert but you can sort of tell a ski is too long or too advanced if you have trouble initiating turns or controlling a carve. Conversely, a ski is probably too short if it is unstable at higher speeds.

 

[bklyn]

Once again, just my opinion...

146 is too short for anyone except a child, or my sister who's under 5 feet tall. Skis this short are not worth purchasing for adult women.

I will probably get some backlash for telling you this, but these snowblades the shop is trying to sell you are duds. They are unloading the junk on you. If, later on, you feel the longer ski was a mistake you have a chance at reselling them on ebay (et al). Forget about selling the 146s.

The difference is less than 10cm, go for the longer ski. I doubt you'll find another solid intermediate woman skiing on 146's in your height and weight range.

 

[skigirl]

Once again, just my opinion...

146 is too short for anyone except a child, or my sister who's under 5 feet tall. Skis this short are not worth purchasing for adult women.

I will probably get some backlash for telling you this, but these snowblades the shop is trying to sell you are duds. They are unloading the junk on you. If, later on, you feel the longer ski was a mistake you have a chance at reselling them on ebay (et al). Forget about selling the 146s.

The difference is less than 10cm, go for the longer ski. I doubt you'll find another solid intermediate woman skiing on 146's in your height and weight range.

I guess I must be some kid on a piece of crap ski because I ski on a 146cm and I have been a ski instructor for 26 years. I am 120lbs too.

 

[SnowHot]

Bklyn
You know I'm in your corner on this one. I think skiers are being sold short on their ski gear.
I don't think 146's are crap, but they are a long shot on being a good length for an adult woman.

From a personal standpoint, I like a shorter ski when I go with the school kids just so they don't ski across my skis all the time, and so I can help handle my gear and theirs, but on my own time and my own terms, put me on a 170 ish ski!
Christy, for you I'd go with something in the 155-160 ish range.

 

[bklyn]

I don't think 146's are crap, but they are a long shot on being a good length for an adult woman.

That's a great answer.

I guess I must be some kid on a piece of crap ski because I ski on a 146cm and I have been a ski instructor for 26 years. I am 120lbs too.

Probably!

What level instructor are you? I know you weren't skiing on 146 CM skis 26 years ago, so you might want to explain to the original poster why you have gone so short and also add your height into the equation. An instructor who inherently spends most of their day with people below their skill level, demonstrating wedges and stem christies, or doing drills may choose a shorter ski.

Consideration should also go toward how you want to be able to ski. If you want to move out of wedging and stemming and to parallel, steeps, bumps and powder... If you want to be able to keep up with 80% of the people you may meet... If you are looking to ski all conditions well, choosing your run based on what looks interesting to you and not based on the trail marker... You need that longer ski.

I always measure twice and cut once. I hate to buy something and then have to spend more to replace it within it's expected lifespan. This drives my philosophy in this thread. My first pair of skis were 195's (considered decent intermediate womens length at the time). Before that purchase, I rented equipment during my teen and beginner years. There is no need to purchase 'beginner' level equipment, or IMO most stuff (crap) branded for intermediates. That's what the rental shop is for.

 

[persee]

Once again, just my opinion...

146 is too short for anyone except a child, or my sister who's under 5 feet tall. Skis this short are not worth purchasing for adult women.

I will probably get some backlash for telling you this, but these snowblades the shop is trying to sell you are duds. They are unloading the junk on you. If, later on, you feel the longer ski was a mistake you have a chance at reselling them on ebay (et al). Forget about selling the 146s.

The difference is less than 10cm, go for the longer ski. I doubt you'll find another solid intermediate woman skiing on 146's in your height and weight range.

I think this statement is rather rash and insulting. The type of statement I'd expect to see on a testosterone fest like epic. What length of ski is appropriate depends on many things including the physical dimensions of the skier, athletic tendency, the type of terrain the skier in question wishes to ski, the type of condition that will be skiied, as well as the individual aspirations of said skier. Just because YOU prefer a longer ski does not mean that everyone will, nor does it mean they are a child, or a poor, etc skiier for not.

 

[Christy]

I will probably get some backlash for telling you this, but these snowblades the shop is trying to sell you are duds. They are unloading the junk on you.

Do you mean the Nordica Drives, or the size? The shops are trying to sell me the 154s. Based on everything else I've read (like the sticky about ski length) anything over 155 is WAY too long for someone of my size. I'm 120 at my heaviest, btw--it's not unusual for me to be less than that.

 

[skigirl]

Persee I could not have said it better. THANK YOU!

I did explain myself to Christy in several PMs. My reason for this is because I knew some of you would get on here and yell at her for wanting short skis. What length skis the rest of you ski is your choice but it is not a reason to be so mean to someone for wanting a shorter ski.

Why did skis get shorter: They got shorter because they got wider. It all comes down to PSI, pounds per square inch. We used to ski on really long skis because they were skinny and we only skied on one ski when we turned. This meant that all of our pounds per square inch went onto one ski. As skis got wider they got shorter. We still ski on the same amount of surface area as we used to.

Example: I used to ski on a 190cm, I went down to a 170cm, then down to a 160cm, then down to a 153cm, then to a 152cm, and I am now on a 146cm. My reason for going down to a 146cm from my 152cm is simple, we now ski on both skis so when I got new boots this year I was able to engage the uphill ski that much more and I now needed shorter skis to get the same performance as before because some of my pounds per square inch are now going into my uphill ski.

Another example is Mr Skigirl: He has also been a ski instructor for 26 years. He started on 203cm, down to a 185cm, then to a 170cm and he is now on a 160cm. He weighs 210lbs. I spend most of my time skiing with him and he in an awesome skier. I did teach wedge turns yesterday but it really did not hurt my skiing. We are no longer on staff but still teach. My first ski school director teaches at the area I ski at now an he begs my to go on staff there because they have a need for good upper level instructors. He sees me ski everyday. I was also offer a job on the spot at Park City after skiing a very steep black diamond while one of the Ski school Training Supervisors was running a clinic. He watched me ski the whole trail while he waited for his instructors to start down the trail. I stopped and talked to him for a minute and he offered me a job on the spot. He promised 6 weeks worth of work if I would stay. I was not in a position to stay but I was flattered.

The reason a lot of new skiers never like long skis is bacause they only know the new technolgy. The learn right from the beginning how to ski on both skis so when they get on longer ones they feel like they can't turn them because they don't know how to ski on one ski.

That's the long and the short of it.

 

[jaydog]

I, too, would disagree with any sweeping generalizations about ski lengths. I know a very advanced skier who goes around on 148s, loves them to death, and keeps up with or leaves in the dust anyone she skis with. Not all skis are built the same, and not all skiers ski the same. From personal experience and from reading reviews here, Volkl and Nordica skis can perform well for skiers for whom you'd think they'd be too short.

Also, beginner/low intermediates often feel comfortable on a shorter ski than you'd expect for their height/weight. My intermediate ski was 153cm, and now I'm on a 164. If you demo the 146 and it feels right, and/or the 154 feels like too much, then go for the 146. You'll be on longer skis eventually. Only you can tell if the ski is the right length for you. You're on the light side for your height, so I don't think the 146 is a stretch, especially since Nordica womens skis tend to run short.

Definitely try to demo them both. The shop will most likely discount the demo fee from your ski purchase.

 

[bklyn]

I think this statement is rather rash and insulting. The type of statement I'd expect to see on a testosterone fest like epic.

I post on those "testosterone fest" message boards often. When I re-read it I don't see a "harsh or insulting" intent.

Do you mean the Nordica Drives, or the size? The shops are trying to sell me the 154s. Based on everything else I've read (like the sticky about ski length) anything over 155 is WAY too long for someone of my size. I'm 120 at my heaviest, btw--it's not unusual for me to be less than that.

My personal opinion, based on your height and weight, is that under 150 is too short. Many women ski longer lengths and are skiing them well. I think you will also.

...professional credentials...

Yep, your right about your experience.

No one is being 'mean' to the original poster.

I ski longer skis (179 to 185) and my bindings are cranked up too high for conventional opinions. I've never taken a sled ride because of it. If I stuck to the height and weight charts for skis I doubt I'd have as much of a good time. And yes, I have demoed a bunch of shorter lengths and not enjoyed their limitations.

The decision is up to you. I'm tempted to put my money where my mouth is and offer to replace the longer skis with the shorter ones if you really don't like them. (That may be seen as too brash, so I'll tone that back)

Whatever you choose to do, I hope you are confident in your purchase and ultimately happy with the results. If you can try-before-you-buy then do so.

 

[volklgirl]

A moderate voice......

In my experience, the current crop of skis can be skied longer with minimal loss of maneuverability but significant increase in stability.

If you perfer to motor along quietly, go with the shorter of the 2. If you like higher speeds, plan to progress rapidly, or are looking for all terrain and all condition versatility, you'll appreciate the longer length.

I'm with SnowHot in feeling that women typically are getting sold "short" on ski lengths. As with all things.....YMMV!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Another consideration is that no one is ever married to a ski (although some of us seem to sleep very near ours !).
You should get what works for you. If it turns out that you've progressed past the point of those skis working out as well, it's not as if they're landfill! They can be sold! Or swapped. If the longer ski is a worry to you, that alone could be something of a mental block in your progress. Get what feels right to you. When it's time to move on, the skis will surely serve someone else very well.

(and I lean toward longer, FWIW, for myself, so this isn't a bias toward short in any way, shape or form)

 

[perma-grin]

Hi Christy, A shorter ski is actually less forgiving of poor fore/aft balance than a longer ski ( longer skis let you hang on the tails) so it can aide in developing a more centered stance. The disadvantages can be a lack of stability at high speeds but are higher speeds realy a factor in this case?. After all how fast are you actually skiing? Ski length is dependent on many factors,flex and sidecut and the conditions that we are going to ski them in! I totally agree with Skigirl the changes to the ski design and changes that we have made in ski technique completely effects the length we should be buying. I look at the taper angle of the ski and flex when determining what length I'm going to ski it in. I wouldn't have a hard time putting someone your size and more importantly your ability on the 146 in that ski. You are by you own description a low intermediate. You progress out of a ski when you improve your ability to bend and guide the ski into the new turn hence being able to more rapidly increase or decrease your speed and handle more variations in terrain. I would demo the ski in both length because both feel quite different from each other. I am a little suprised that they didn't suggest a "Fox " for you. While the footprint is a little less generous the flex is more forgiving. If you don't quite mesh with the Drive give the Fox a try. (not to be confused with the firefox way different little beastie critters) As for out growing it in three years that sounds about right any way. If you are progressing you are going to out grow the ski, it shouldn't matter if you buy the 146 or the 154 you are hopefully going too improve in your ability! The difference is one pair will make it easier for you to do so. As for happy for 10 yrs with those skis? I seriously doubt it, and I doubt also that they would use that line on a guy! That just doesnt happen with the progressing skier, I repeat you should be out growing your equipment if your advancing in your ability.

 

[greekpeakskier]

i began the year as a low intermediate. i'm way taller and heaver (5'7" 147). after my 160 burnin luvs were stolen i bought a pair of 163 Nordica Victory's. I far preferred the Victory's to the BLs, but when I skied w/ skigirl one day, she had me try her shorter Fischers, and I found I really preferred the shorter ski. When I walked back into the store where I had bought the victory's the nordica rep was there and said that they "ski long, the store should have never sold me a 160" and he swapped them out on the spot for the 154. I have been much more comfortable this year on the shorter ski.

HOWEVER, I've skied 65 days this year and am (thank goodness) progressing (or else i'd have to be a masochist), and although I found the ski and the length great for progression, I'm ready to jump. Through this season, the length and composition of the ski gave me great confidence as i worked on steeps, short radius turns, the stability helped me tons as i work to find edges and ski on one ski. However, at this point, i'm also frustrated since it jitters at higher speeds and i'm quite frustrated w/ its speed.

my ski buddy and i spend long lift discussions trying to figure out what to do next. but i do know i'm going for one longer, faster ski (suggestions anyone?) to keep up better w/ my male, racer ski buddy and i'm also going to demo the firefox this weekend w/ the expectation that i'm going to change -- but stay in the 154 or go longer, i don't know. However, I have NO regrets about going with a slightly shorter ski this season as I learned to feel the different parts of my ski on different terrain (a project i plan on continuing for a very long time).

Can you stand the idea of working to buy something at a spring sale that you then turn over and sell after 50 or 60 times out?


Oh, and if I do fall in love w/ the firefoxes and look to buy, i'll flip my victory's for a cheap price on the gear section.

 

[Christy]

Thanks to everyone for the advice! I had a lot of fun today on the Nordica Drive 146s. They were definitely "zippier" than rental skis! (Or does that have to do with maintenance/waxing? I'm clueless about this stuff). There's a couple more I want to try so hopefully the weather will stay cold enough Though I wonder, as a novice, if I'll really be able to tell much difference between the skis, demoing them on successive weekends. It seems like snow conditions have a way bigger, and very obvious, effect on my skiing, and that as the snow gets more spring-like, it's going to be harder to ski no matter what I'm on.