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Help Needed: Help Understanding Correct Stance/Posture

Gloria

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Unless they can't.

There are a whole bunch of structures in the foot whose relationships are way more complex than generally understood. While flexibility can be gained by stretching, there are more factors in play than whether someone actively tries to improve flexibility. I've done wall sits and ankle flexibility exercises since I rowed crew in college. I can increase my ankle flexion to a certain point then it stops.

Joint ROM can be affected by the soft tissues but also the shape of the bony interfaces. Your elbow does not move past parallel because there's kind of a locking mechanism, some people have other joints like that which impede movement.

It's really a mistake to think *everything* can be solved in the gym. Different peoples' tissues have different levels of collagen and elastin, etc., which affects what we can do. Research has shown stretchy people are more likely to have pelvic organ prolapse (female organs fall out when you age). So individual flexibility is a way more complex process than most realize.

I do need to add that we all can and should improve our flexibility with the appropriate physical regimen but we can't all get to the same level of flexibility, not to mention it takes time so if a new skier tries to take up the sport they're supposed to be sent away to get in ski shape for a season before they're allowed to come back?

Everybody is at least a little different in terms of their natural gifts. Now for me I have the hardest time understanding how some people can't understand math and science. Biostatistics-easy peazy, Calculus- a breeze, Biochemistry - no problem, Literature 101 - PROBLEM.

So just like those things we all have different aptitudes, I don't use a calculator to balance my checkbook, but am looking for a good writing/grammar program, because clearly I need that, I'm strong so don't need help there, but do need some flexibility aids.

What if I tried to take away your calculator?
Unless they can't.

There are a whole bunch of structures in the foot whose relationships are way more complex than generally understood. While flexibility can be gained by stretching, there are more factors in play than whether someone actively tries to improve flexibility. I've done wall sits and ankle flexibility exercises since I rowed crew in college. I can increase my ankle flexion to a certain point then it stops.

Joint ROM can be affected by the soft tissues but also the shape of the bony interfaces. Your elbow does not move past parallel because there's kind of a locking mechanism, some people have other joints like that which impede movement.

It's really a mistake to think *everything* can be solved in the gym. Different peoples' tissues have different levels of collagen and elastin, etc., which affects what we can do. Research has shown stretchy people are more likely to have pelvic organ prolapse (female organs fall out when you age). So individual flexibility is a way more complex process than most realize.

I do need to add that we all can and should improve our flexibility with the appropriate physical regimen but we can't all get to the same level of flexibility, not to mention it takes time so if a new skier tries to take up the sport they're supposed to be sent away to get in ski shape for a season before they're allowed to come back?

Everybody is at least a little different in terms of their natural gifts. Now for me I have the hardest time understanding how some people can't understand math and science. Biostatistics-easy peazy, Calculus- a breeze, Biochemistry - no problem, Literature 101 - PROBLEM.

So just like those things we all have different aptitudes, I don't use a calculator to balance my checkbook, but am looking for a good writing/grammar program, because clearly I need that, I'm strong so don't need help there, but do need some flexibility aids.

What if I tried to take away your calculator?
Oh I am not suggesting anyone take your heel lifts that are working for you. Alot of people really are thrown into the backseat by them and it just makes me think about different ways or approaches to achieve this. Provocative thought is all. Like someone mentioned raising the toe instead. Which I don't know, but wonder merely, if in a case where there is a bony impingement along the lines of the Tibula and talar glide if this wouldn't work along the same lines as the distraction method commonly used as a non-invasive treatment. An osteophyte or spur might be better served by a heel lift. I don't know the answers, just thinking out loud...
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Going back to Jenny's picture....The CSIA does not talk about "angles". We talk about natural alignment. It should involve the ankles, knees, hips and spine. From the manual, because it says it best: "Whether skiing forwards, backwards, or standing still, the natural use of joints and muscles keeps a skier in balance. Balance is a result of mobility, not position." This is in reference to our "technical reference" points. Use of all joints helps maintain balance, providing the ability to manage forces acting on the ski and skier.

My question then to Jenny is does she feel balance? Can you react/absorb changes in the snow conditions? I'm suspecting she can't. But a slight more bend at the hips and rounding of the shoulders would make a world of difference. There are many exercises she could do if she wants.

Now as for toe lifts, heel lifts. Everything has to work with your skis too. I had a pair of Rossi softs years ago. When I was skiing I felt like I was wearing high heels. The boot has some weird ramp inside of the it. And any ramp angle from the binding....disaster. Some people do need heel lifts, some people need toe lifts, some need arch supports. What ever works for you to enjoy this sport is what's important.

One side of my condo thermometer says -23C, the other says -19C. Guess I going to keep reading the new manual for a hour or so.
 

Obrules15

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Oh I am not suggesting anyone take your heel lifts that are working for you. Alot of people really are thrown into the backseat by them and it just makes me think about different ways or approaches to achieve this. Provocative thought is all. Like someone mentioned raising the toe instead. Which I don't know, but wonder merely, if in a case where there is a bony impingement along the lines of the Tibula and talar glide if this wouldn't work along the same lines as the distraction method commonly used as a non-invasive treatment. An osteophyte or spur might be better served by a heel lift. I don't know the answers, just thinking out loud...

The big thing is to know what we are doing and why we are doing it. People with heel lifts who are thrown into the back seat aren't there because the heel lift did it, they are there because the heel lift shifted them too far forward and they are compensating by rearing back. A too thick heel lift will do it as well. It happened to me with a 1 cm lift where a 0.5 works perfectly.

I will just shut up and go away now because I'm just repeating myself and saying the same thing over and over but no one seems to be able to get past their hate of lifts enough to think things through and focus on the real problem which is LEARNING how and why they work and picking the appropriate people to get them. Every woman shouldn't get a lift just because, they shouldn't get lifts because the boot is too tall yet this is how it was happening, we need to learn enough to do better.

A toe lift would be a disaster for someone with limited dorsiflexion but excellent for short femur, long tib/fib, and too much boot forward lean and a few other things. This doesn't have to be a guessing game. The body makes sense, as does what happens when you mess with it. That's what the videos showed, that there is a predictable progression of where limbs go when you start mucking with things. Biomechanics makes sense.
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
My question then to Jenny is does she feel balance? Can you react/absorb changes in the snow conditions? I'm suspecting she can't. But a slight more bend at the hips and rounding of the shoulders would make a world of difference. There are many exercises she could do if she wants.
I am *hoping* that this was my position just as I started down the slope and not representative of the way I was the entire way down. I *suspect* I may be in this position more often than I think. So tell me more about these exercises . . .
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I will just shut up and go away now because I'm just repeating myself and saying the same thing over and over but no one seems to be able to get past their hate of lifts enough to think things through and focus on the real problem which is LEARNING how and why they work and picking the appropriate people to get them.

Hi,

I don't think you're carefully reading what the other ladies on this thread are posting. They are posting with nuance, and no one has said that heel lifts are never the answer. You probably have a tendency toward a strong reaction regarding heel lifts, just as I do regarding fat skis. So yes, please take a deep breath, and take a step back to read what people are actually posting.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Using a gentle green run, after your turn, do a small hop/bounce, between turns. Get the skis off the snow, but not feet, inches. This will challenge you to re-align to stay in balance. Make sure the feet land first, not the tip or tail. In fact this is great exercise for first thing in the morning. It loosens up the joints. For more advance people, you can do the hop just as you are going to set you new edge. Land on the new edge.
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
Using a gentle green run, after your turn, do a small hop/bounce, between turns. Get the skis off the snow, but not feet, inches. This will challenge you to re-align to stay in balance. Make sure the feet land first, not the tip or tail. In fact this is great exercise for first thing in the morning. It loosens up the joints. For more advance people, you can do the hop just as you are going to set you new edge. Land on the new edge.
Ugh. I hate when the skis leave the snow! Even one at a time. But I'll try, I promise. Thanks.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ugh. I hate when the skis leave the snow! Even one at a time. But I'll try, I promise. Thanks.

My instructor Pete had us doing two double pole plants between each turn on slightly steeper stuff. It will also get you into a good position. Slightly different, but might help.

@Jilly I would also like to meet the person who can hop several feet off the ground on skis (without a ramp)!
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
My instructor Pete had us doing two double pole plants between each turn on slightly steeper stuff. It will also get you into a good position. Slightly different, but might help.

@Jilly I would also like to meet the person who can hop several feet off the ground on skis (without a ramp)!
Meaning, plant both poles at the same time, thus keeping your body facing down (not across) the hill as well as forcing you to lean down (not back up toward) the hill.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Meaning, plant both poles at the same time, thus keeping your body facing down (not across) the hill as well as forcing you to lean down (not back up toward) the hill.

Welllll ...

There's nothing about planting both poles that requires you to go down the hill vs. across. I think it's more about getting into an athletic stance - same concept as what the jump gives you. When you plant both poles, you tighten your core and get into an aggressive position. So - agreed with the second part, not sure about the first. Anyway, if hopping feels awkward, this is a different option. I don't think it does exactly the same thing physically, but it's in the same vein.
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
Welllll ...

There's nothing about planting both poles that requires you to go down the hill vs. across. I think it's more about getting into an athletic stance - same concept as what the jump gives you. When you plant both poles, you tighten your core and get into an aggressive position. So - agreed with the second part, not sure about the first. Anyway, if hopping feels awkward, this is a different option. I don't think it does exactly the same thing physically, but it's in the same vein.
Maybe I'm picturing this wrong. What's in my head is that you do a normal pole plant with your (at that point) downhill hand and then you're adding the uphill hand pole planting near the same point. So since it would be reaching across your body that would force you to be facing more down the slope than perhaps you were before. I probably need to find a video.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Maybe I'm picturing this wrong. What's in my head is that you do a normal pole plant with your (at that point) downhill hand and then you're adding the uphill hand pole planting near the same point. So since it would be reaching across your body that would force you to be facing more down the slope than perhaps you were before. I probably need to find a video.

Oh! No. You know how you pole when you are trying to get through flats? Both at the same time, on either side of your body. Like that, twice, with a little oomph.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
No, no double pole plants...that's to stabilize an upper body problems. We're not there yet I hope.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had a little revelation yesterday that made a big difference in my form and control. It was a warm day with soft snow and no ice, and hardly anyone on the mountain. For all of those reasons, I felt confident trying some steeper trails. I don't know what made me do this the first time, but for some reason, I thought about matching my body position to the pitch of the slope. That is, I thought about standing in good, balanced posture and just keeping that stance intact as the ground became steeper. The only other thing I really paid attention to was my feet and where I felt pressure, and I mostly kept the pressure on the balls of my feet pretty easily just by thinking about matching the slope angle . I have a pretty good pole plant, though my arm position is sort of inconsistent. I do always keep my hands in front of me and move the pole through the turn so that the plant finishes the turn.

Anyway, it really helped me feel "forward" but balanced, and I had great control and was able to use lots of different turn shapes and change up my speed.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Yeah!!!! Believe it or not that is the one thing that gets skiing. They tend to sit back, then lose it on steeps. Keep that feeling!
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Ok, Divas, Laura and I got something together for you all. Please remember that if you put 10 instructors together, you might have 11 different opinions in the mix. :wink:
The just under 15 minute video reflects mine.


I will be out of town for a couple of days and maybe wont have time to answer questions that I am sure will come up. (Just ask @Skisailor; she knows my answers. :thumbsup:)

Now I will ask a favor: if you get something out of the video and maybe you learned something new, (and you didn't pay for it :wink:), please consider a donation to GTLI.
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/if-you-are-looking-for-a-good-cause.21189/
Ursula
:bump:
The video in Post #52 that Ursula and skisailor-Laura put together is well worth reviewing before every ski season. Hopefully for Divas who plan to ski in North America this season, won't be long before they can get on snow.
 

badger

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks @marzNC for updating the thread . I loved this video the first time I saw it and enjoyed just as much today!
Urusla so beautifully demonstrates the difference between weight and pressure. Just about everyone that takes lessons hears those two terms and comes away thinking they mean the same thing. I know I tend to fall back into that old "pressure" habit too often, and it indeed compromises the position I should actually be in to make smooth turns without quad burn. Whenever I start feeling that thigh fatigue, I instantly recognize it is improper technique and adjust my skiing stance.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Agreed. I missed this the first time around so thanks for the bump. The whole thread is actually an interesting read.
 

kiki

Angel Diva
:bump:
The video in Post #52 that Ursula and skisailor-Laura put together is well worth reviewing before every ski season. Hopefully for Divas who plan to ski in North America this season, won't be long before they can get on snow.
Thank you!! Such a great video. Any other recommended ones in the archives?
 

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