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Help picking a ski for learning carving?

Auri_616

Diva in Training
Hi Everyone!

I'm hoping you all might be able to help make the right decision on my first ski purchase. I live in the Midwest, and the places I might be able to demo don't have much selection, so unfortunately I'm planning to buy without demo-ing. It's a bit scary as I don't want to get something that's too much ski for me but also want to get a ski I can grow into.

I just started learning to carve last winter, but I found it a bit difficult to practice in the limited amount of space at my local Indiana ski resort. So I've been looking at skis with short turn radii so I have time and space for more turns. I saw people recommend the Blizzard Alights when I was researching skis last winter, but I couldn't find any of the thinner models available in the right length for me, so I ended just about deciding to get the new Blizzard Phoenix R13 CA skis, which are 76 mm wide and have a 12 m turn radio at 155 cm. However, I found some 2020 Liberty V76Ws, which I saw recommended here, for half the price, which is pretty tempting.

Do you think as an intermediate skier I might struggle with the Liberty's?

Also, if I get the Blizzards, would you recommend I get 155 or 160 cm? I'm 5' 4", 120ish lbs. If I get the Liberty's I'd probably get 158 cm. I rented 160's (Soloman Aira 76) in Colorado last year and found them more difficult to turn then I was used to, but my current skis are something like 146 cm so that's not saying much. I don't know how the effective lengths compare... the Solomans say they have "16%" rocker and the Blizzards say "3 mm" rocker. Anyway, from what I've read, it seems like most advanced skiers of my size would be on at least 160s, but as I'm not advanced and want to do lots of little turns maybe 155 is OK?

I also found some 2020 K2 Disruption SC Alliance skis on sale, which seem very similar to what I've been looking at, but they're only 153 cm. Has any ever tried those skis?

Thank you in advance for any advice you might have! :smile:
 

nopoleskier

Angel Diva
HI! I live in the East and I own the Liberty V76W's I love them, I've been skiing forever and have a race background so my love of them is that they 'go" when on edge, they are forgiving for me. I'm not sure how aggressive you ski? I'd say I ski aggressively, lol and I like to go fast, I'm taller 5'6 and heavier than you I'm on the 165's I've had them on groomed, east coast frozen and ice and over 8" of powder and piles of spring snow at Mammoth in May (where I first demo'd them) yes they can go slowly but fo LOVE to be on edge, they will skid and will go as fast as you want. I love making tight turns and big turns they are quick edge to edge they are a light ski- not heavy like volkls (sorry volkl ladies) I like 'poppy, flexible skis- not plankish feeling. I may buy a back up pair for when the pair I have wear out, I love them that much! As for length you may want to just go a little longer than the 146's you're on, since you didn't like the 160's I'd wonder if you'd be happier on the 150-152 so you can perfect tight turns, big turns and have good control of the skis while you get the 'feel' for carved turns. Learning to carve slowly makes you a very good carver at speed.

Not to worry, We'll all enable you to buy more skis as you progress and want a quiver, lol.

I also love the Alights! they are a nice ski, very forgiving and very nice carving ski- I haven't been on the Phoenix are they the new version of the Alights?
K2's I've had hit or miss liking them.
Atomic makes some nice carvers too- the Cloud series the lower the number the tamer the ski, very nice carvers and have less than 80 under foot.

It's definitely tough to buy skis without trying, I hope you enjoy what ever you find and make lots of runs!
 

Auri_616

Diva in Training
HI! I live in the East and I own the Liberty V76W's I love them, I've been skiing forever and have a race background so my love of them is that they 'go" when on edge, they are forgiving for me. I'm not sure how aggressive you ski? I'd say I ski aggressively, lol and I like to go fast, I'm taller 5'6 and heavier than you I'm on the 165's I've had them on groomed, east coast frozen and ice and over 8" of powder and piles of spring snow at Mammoth in May (where I first demo'd them) yes they can go slowly but fo LOVE to be on edge, they will skid and will go as fast as you want. I love making tight turns and big turns they are quick edge to edge they are a light ski- not heavy like volkls (sorry volkl ladies) I like 'poppy, flexible skis- not plankish feeling. I may buy a back up pair for when the pair I have wear out, I love them that much! As for length you may want to just go a little longer than the 146's you're on, since you didn't like the 160's I'd wonder if you'd be happier on the 150-152 so you can perfect tight turns, big turns and have good control of the skis while you get the 'feel' for carved turns. Learning to carve slowly makes you a very good carver at speed.

Not to worry, We'll all enable you to buy more skis as you progress and want a quiver, lol.

I also love the Alights! they are a nice ski, very forgiving and very nice carving ski- I haven't been on the Phoenix are they the new version of the Alights?
K2's I've had hit or miss liking them.
Atomic makes some nice carvers too- the Cloud series the lower the number the tamer the ski, very nice carvers and have less than 80 under foot.

It's definitely tough to buy skis without trying, I hope you enjoy what ever you find and make lots of runs!
Thanks for the reply, I appreciating hearing your experience with the Liberty's! I'm definitely more of a conservative skier. One of the problems I had with carving is that once I put weight forward on the skis they started going faster than I wanted!

I think the Phoenix are more or less replacements for the Alights--they don't carry the Alights anymore at any rate.
I was looking at the Cloud 9's awhile back. The one thing I didn't like is the turn radius is wider, but maybe in practice that wouldn't matter much.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I'm hoping you all might be able to help make the right decision on my first ski purchase. I live in the Midwest, and the places I might be able to demo don't have much selection, so unfortunately I'm planning to buy without demo-ing. It's a bit scary as I don't want to get something that's too much ski for me but also want to get a ski I can grow into.

I just started learning to carve last winter, but I found it a bit difficult to practice in the limited amount of space at my local Indiana ski resort. . . .
Welcome! How many seasons have you been skiing?

Can't really help with ski recommendations since it's been awhile since I've demo'd narrower skis.

My home hill is in northern Virginia. When I started taking lessons after knee rehab (not a skiing injury), not only did I learn fundamentals, I also learned how to practice on relatively short slopes. I was an older adventurous intermediate or low advanced skier at the time. The groomed trails at Massanutten take less than 3 minutes to finish, even making lots of turns. If you are on skis that seem to just keep going faster and faster, it may be technique and not gear that is the more important factor.
 

SarahXC

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have a little older liberty v80 mounted with tele bindings and I have found them to be forgiving of my learning to telemark mistakes. I am a beginner to telemark so they are numerous. I’m not sure exactly how the v80 compares to the v76 as I haven’t been on the 76 but just figured I’d share…
 

Auri_616

Diva in Training
Welcome! How many seasons have you been skiing?

Can't really help with ski recommendations since it's been awhile since I've demo'd narrower skis.

My home hill is in northern Virginia. When I started taking lessons after knee rehab (not a skiing injury), not only did I learn fundamentals, I also learned how to practice on relatively short slopes. I was an older adventurous intermediate or low advanced skier at the time. The groomed trails at Massanutten take less than 3 minutes to finish, even making lots of turns. If you are on skis that seem to just keep going faster and faster, it may be technique and not gear that is the more important factor.
Thanks! I'm 24 and have been skiing since I was very little, but just once or twice a season, missing a few here and there, so I haven't really progressed much. Last year I skied 6 days though and am hoping to improve on that this year. You're right, I definitely need to improve on technique, but now seems like a good time to upgrade the skis (Rossignol Passion Classics from 2007).
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks for the reply, I appreciating hearing your experience with the Liberty's! I'm definitely more of a conservative skier. One of the problems I had with carving is that once I put weight forward on the skis they started going faster than I wanted!....
--When one gets a real carve going, it is fast. There's no way around that.
--But there's an amazing sense of security in carved turns. And bliss!
--That's because the skis go exactly where they are pointed. There's no wondering how well the skis will hold, and no skidding sideways-ish at all.
--Feeling shocked by the speed with first carved turns is normal. Wanting to slow the carves down is normal. But.... bailing on the carve is not the way to do this if you are serious about building your skiing skills so they include carving.
--The way to control your speed when carving, without bailing on the carve, is to head straight across the trail with every turn. You'll still be going fast, but gravity won't be speeding you up when you head across the hill; you'll be coasting on momentum alone. I'm not saying traverse; I'm saying continue your round turn until your skis point at the trees. Then initiate your next turn.
--In other words, to keep your downhill travel as slow as possible when carving, complete your turns.
--The problem with completing your carved turns is crowds. You will take up a lot of space on the hill, and people above you may not expect that.
--Each completed turn can take you a long way across the hill. This is not good if there are skidding skiers above you not expecting you to cross their intended line. This is a safety issue, and the carving skier is the one not matching the crowd's flow.
--Choose empty trails to learn to complete your turns. This is important.
--The solution to safely doing speed control with completed turns is to keep your carved turns in as narrow a corridor as possible.
--A short radius ski with enough torsional stiffness to hold a carve will help you stay in a narrower corridor. Buying such a ski is important.
--That torsional stiffness part is important. When you buy your short radius ski, make sure it's not labelled as a beginner or lower intermediate ski. That usually means it's torsionally soft (and forgiving). AKA it won't hold a carve very well. The tip and tail will bend away from the snow when the ski is tipped up on edge and let go, no matter how skillfully the skier is moving.
--In other words, buy a short radius ski targeted at "advanced" skiers. When you are learning to carve, you are starting to move into "advanced" skill territory and you will need a ski to reward that buildup of skills.
--Such a ski can still be used for "advanced" skidded turns. These will be much slower than the carved turns, and if the ski is torsionally stiff, it will do these turns better than a more "forgiving" lower intermediate ski.
--And enjoy the BLISS!!! Nothing feels as exciting as a run of carved turns on an empty slope.
--Wear a helmet.
 
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nopoleskier

Angel Diva
Thanks for the reply, I appreciating hearing your experience with the Liberty's! I'm definitely more of a conservative skier. One of the problems I had with carving is that once I put weight forward on the skis they started going faster than I wanted!

I think the Phoenix are more or less replacements for the Alights--they don't carry the Alights anymore at any rate.
I was looking at the Cloud 9's awhile back. The one thing I didn't like is the turn radius is wider, but maybe in practice that wouldn't matter much.
Hi.. those cloud 9's I think are a more aggressive ski and not much of a 'sweet spot"= meaning you have to be balanced on them or they may buck you off. Skis do have speed control, a ski designed for beginner- intermediate won't go as fast as a ski designed for experts/racers. there used to be a cloud 7 that wasn't a rocket ski.

Yes when you put the skis on edge they will go faster, getting used to speed comes with time on snow, but you still pressure the skis and can carve at slower speeds.

that Phoenix looks like an upper end ski.. When you read reviews look for 'forgiveness' as an attribute
and there's nothing wrong with buying last years model, often manufacturers just change the top sheet. Since you are on Rossis, maybe explore a Rossi in the intermediate category..

Buying an expert ski as a learner I think may hold you back because they are built for speed and you will be skidding to slow down.

Sorry @liquidfeet I disagree with your statement a learner should not look for forgiveness in a ski.
I think Forgiveness=confidence when learning.

When I demo I try all the skis in a line up and am always amazed at the difference in beginner to expert performance and speed. Performance- no chatter, not squirrelly, rebound, energy, dampness, all depends on what the skier likes. Speed is in the higher end models for sure.

ANY Ski will carve. I can make tight carves on my 74's 76,s 88s and 90s only my 104's I need more trail, but they are made for powder so no carving needed. But then I could probably ski a 2x4 and still make it turn having grown up on big ol' straight skis.

Anyone that has followed me knows I throw in 'tight carved turns to slow down" I can make tight turns on my 90's just as well as my narrow skis. It's technique, being confident the ski will do what I am asking it to do.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Thanks! I'm 24 and have been skiing since I was very little, but just once or twice a season, missing a few here and there, so I haven't really progressed much. Last year I skied 6 days though and am hoping to improve on that this year. You're right, I definitely need to improve on technique, but now seems like a good time to upgrade the skis (Rossignol Passion Classics from 2007).
Ah, agree that upgrading from skis that are over 10 years old is well worth it. I'm even starting to think about new "carving" skis that I use in the east even though what I have are only five years old. But I've been skiing a lot in recent years. Helps to be a retired ski nut.

I learned to ski in middle school. Didn't start skiing more than 5-6 days a season until after age 55. Didn't ski at all for a decade during high school and college.

Let's see if you can get suggestions from Divas in the midwest. Paging @Iwannaski .
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
So you're coming off the Rossi Passion. That was/is a very soft ski. Rossi at that time didn't get that women can ski hard and need a stiffer ski.

I've never had the chance to demo the Liberty's. They don't seem to be available in eastern Canada. But I have seen many others.
Blizzard - Phenoix is the replacement for their women's carver. The R14 appears on paper to be similar to my Hero's. So it's probably a unisex ski made pretty.
Rossi - Might look at the Hero ST Ca. Not as stiff as the Ti since you're a lot lighter than me. Or the Nova's at the upper end.
Atomic - Cloud's. nopole has touched on those. I liked the 11 myself.
Salomon - for carvers the Bold series. There is a W in there somewhere. It's not coming up on the site I'm using for some reason.

Length - depending on the skis, there might "tip rocker". Traditional cambered skis - 154 area. Tip rocker maybe 160.
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
@Auri_616 … where are you in Indiana? I ask, because what I might suggest might be different. So take everything below with a context driven grain of salt. :smile: Also, this is a whole bunch of thoughts, not organized, because I’m about to make brussels sprouts. LOL.

So, I LOVED the Cloud 9… literally all you had to do was put your weight forward and it rewarded me.
I have a real tendency towards anxiety, which made me put my weight back, but when I figured out how to work the C9s, I love them. it is hard on certain midwestern hills… we have a place where the green is maybe 15 feet across with a steep drop/trees to one side and I almost had a straight panic attack that I wouldn’t be able to make the turn in time…while I was trying to follow my 9 year old. But that’s a user issue, not a turn radius issue. ;)

I hear you on the speed but the turn radius was not an issue for me.

My problem was going too short (I am 5‘7” and not light and was on a 150… great for COLD confidence, terrible for speed and progression). So, I would definitely NOT go short regardless of ski… they will be fine for January, but by the end of February, you’ll really feel the stability issue.

Step 1 might be finding the right place for you to work on the aspects of carving you want to work on. We have three places within 45 min, and the cheapest/most popular among our friends are NOT the ones I prefer. I did realize that the bigger/more expensive place is REALLY where I prefer to be. (Of course) … but, the snow is in better condition, the learning spaces are wider and more practical. So, first thing for you might be to look at your options on location.

Maybe you can drive a little to get to somewhere wider/bigger that gives you space to make the full turn that @liquidfeet described?

You mentioned limited demo stock. Could you get a good seasonal rental for this year? Maybe, again, consider Chicago shops, which might have more stock. Then, maybe you can look at hills with demo days (I know Granite has one late season, I think Trollhaugen does, if you’re willing to drive to Wisconsin- but I’m guessing Michigan is easier and @Jenny probably has some good recommendations) and while progressing your skiing on the seasonal rental you can find places to demo?

In Chicago: I’ve heard Viking Ski Shop is the great one, and they’re huge, so might be a good place to access more stock?

I bought skis without demoing 2x, because it IS hard to find demos in the Midwest. The first time was the too short cloud 9s - seasonal sales bro error, so bad the shop refunded my money after skiing them all season. Now I will be on Renoun Earharts because I figure if I don’t love them I can return them.
 

Jenny

Angel Diva
I find demoing here hard because there aren’t a lot of demo days, or at least I never find out about them. So when I demo, it's usually up at Nub's Nob. Have also done it at Boyne Highlands once. Since I’m 5’9” my biggest problem is finding them long enough, which shouldn’t be a problem for OP at 5’4”.

Anyway, Nub's has changed their website, which I don't like, and I’m not sure if I’m just not seeing where they have their demos listed, or if they don't have them anymore. If they don't, then it's a shame.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Buying an expert ski as a learner I think may hold you back because they are built for speed and you will be skidding to slow down.
....ANY Ski will carve. I can make tight carves on my 74's 76,s 88s and 90s only my 104's I need more trail, but they are made for powder so no carving needed. But then I could probably ski a 2x4 and still make it turn having grown up on big ol' straight skis.
@nopoleskier, I think we are talking past each other.
--It sounds like your definition of "carving" and mine are different.
--@Auri_616 sounds like an intermediate who is learning to carve arc-to-arc turns with tail following tip (my definition of "carving"), on hard snow. This is not the same as making a ski turn. And she does not strike me as a beginner.
--A ski targeted towards people moving from intermediate skills into advanced skills is what she needs. Well, if that's who she is. Such a ski is not an "expert" ski.
 

Auri_616

Diva in Training
--When one gets a real carve going, it is fast. There's no way around that.
--But there's an amazing sense of security in carved turns. And bliss!
--That's because the skis go exactly where they are pointed. There's no wondering how well the skis will hold, and no skidding sideways-ish at all.
--Feeling shocked by the speed with first carved turns is normal. Wanting to slow the carves down is normal. But.... bailing on the carve is not the way to do this if you are serious about building your skiing skills so they include carving.
--The way to control your speed when carving, without bailing on the carve, is to head straight across the trail with every turn. You'll still be going fast, but gravity won't be speeding you up when you head across the hill; you'll be coasting on momentum alone. I'm not saying traverse; I'm saying continue your round turn until your skis point at the trees. Then initiate your next turn.
--In other words, to keep your downhill travel as slow as possible when carving, complete your turns.
--The problem with completing your carved turns is crowds. You will take up a lot of space on the hill, and people above you may not expect that.
--Each completed turn can take you a long way across the hill. This is not good if there are skidding skiers above you not expecting you to cross their intended line. This is a safety issue, and the carving skier is the one not matching the crowd's flow.
--Choose empty trails to learn to complete your turns. This is important.
--The solution to safely doing speed control with completed turns is to keep your carved turns in as narrow a corridor as possible.
--A short radius ski with enough torsional stiffness to hold a carve will help you stay in a narrower corridor. Buying such a ski is important.
--That torsional stiffness part is important. When you buy your short radius ski, make sure it's not labelled as a beginner or lower intermediate ski. That usually means it's torsionally soft (and forgiving). AKA it won't hold a carve very well. The tip and tail will bend away from the snow when the ski is tipped up on edge and let go, no matter how skillfully the skier is moving.
--In other words, buy a short radius ski targeted at "advanced" skiers. When you are learning to carve, you are starting to move into "advanced" skill territory and you will need a ski to reward that buildup of skills.
--Such a ski can still be used for "advanced" skidded turns. These will be much slower than the carved turns, and if the ski is torsionally stiff, it will do these turns better than a more "forgiving" lower intermediate ski.
--And enjoy the BLISS!!! Nothing feels as exciting as a run of carved turns on an empty slope.
--Wear a helmet.
Thanks for the advice, that's really helpful! Thankfully most of the crowds at Paoli seem to be on the greens and easier blues.
 

Auri_616

Diva in Training
I find demoing here hard because there aren’t a lot of demo days, or at least I never find out about them. So when I demo, it's usually up at Nub's Nob. Have also done it at Boyne Highlands once. Since I’m 5’9” my biggest problem is finding them long enough, which shouldn’t be a problem for OP at 5’4”.

Anyway, Nub's has changed their website, which I don't like, and I’m not sure if I’m just not seeing where they have their demos listed, or if they don't have them anymore. If they don't, then it's a shame.

Yeah, I'll be up for Xmas and probably skiing at Boyne Mountain, but I tried to find info about demo's and couldn't find anything. I was thinking it might be possible to pick something up from Boyne Country Sports but they don't have too many options.
 

nopoleskier

Angel Diva
@Auri_616 Since those liberty's are on sale.. here's a video of a ski tester
I think you would like them :-) and at the price not losing much. you can move bindings from ski to ski if you end up finding your 'dream ski" I'll send you a PM where I found them on sale-

@liquidfeet I know you love to expound on the technical definitions of skiing and that's fine but when skiers are learning.. what happens when their bad habits flare up? when they get in the back seat, off balance, scared, stuck on a cross fall line, are on a crowded slope? In my experience, I see all the techno stuff going right out the window and they hang on by the seat of their pants, survival instinct sets in, toes are curled in their boots. That is why I think having a ski that 'forgives' isn't a bad thing. You have to agree a Stiff Higher end ski is more demanding? To me Carving is skis on edge leaving rail road tracks, no skid marks.

Here's a nice article on getting your skis on edge and I LOVE ANY Deb Armstrong Videos! highly recommend watching those! https://vtskiandride.com/perfect-carve/
 

Auri_616

Diva in Training
Hi.. those cloud 9's I think are a more aggressive ski and not much of a 'sweet spot"= meaning you have to be balanced on them or they may buck you off. Skis do have speed control, a ski designed for beginner- intermediate won't go as fast as a ski designed for experts/racers. there used to be a cloud 7 that wasn't a rocket ski.

Yes when you put the skis on edge they will go faster, getting used to speed comes with time on snow, but you still pressure the skis and can carve at slower speeds.

that Phoenix looks like an upper end ski.. When you read reviews look for 'forgiveness' as an attribute
and there's nothing wrong with buying last years model, often manufacturers just change the top sheet. Since you are on Rossis, maybe explore a Rossi in the intermediate category..

Buying an expert ski as a learner I think may hold you back because they are built for speed and you will be skidding to slow down.

Sorry @liquidfeet I disagree with your statement a learner should not look for forgiveness in a ski.
I think Forgiveness=confidence when learning.

When I demo I try all the skis in a line up and am always amazed at the difference in beginner to expert performance and speed. Performance- no chatter, not squirrelly, rebound, energy, dampness, all depends on what the skier likes. Speed is in the higher end models for sure.

ANY Ski will carve. I can make tight carves on my 74's 76,s 88s and 90s only my 104's I need more trail, but they are made for powder so no carving needed. But then I could probably ski a 2x4 and still make it turn having grown up on big ol' straight skis.

Anyone that has followed me knows I throw in 'tight carved turns to slow down" I can make tight turns on my 90's just as well as my narrow skis. It's technique, being confident the ski will do what I am asking it to do.
I think these particular Phoenix are more intermediate skis, at least based on the review on Ski Essentials.

Re. beginner vs. intermediate, I can ski parallel turns easily, but never attempted carved turns until last winter. They were definitely easier when I skied at Breck/Keystone last spring and had more space.

Edit: looks like I have to run and help cook T-day dinner--thank you for the replies everyone, will reply more later! :smile:
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
@Auri_616 : as you have probably figured out if you didn't already know, @liquidfeet and @nopoleskier are ski instructors. However they have very different ski backgrounds. LF learned to ski as an older adult. Nopole was on skis by the time she was 3, if not 2, and was a ski racer growing up. They both live in the northeast.

Do you remember what length skis you rented in Colorado?
 

nopoleskier

Angel Diva
they Sound REALLY NICE!!! A lot like the Liberty but come with bindings! :-) HAPPY TURKEY DAY
I think these particular Phoenix are more intermediate skis, at least based on the review on Ski Essentials.

Re. beginner vs. intermediate, I can ski parallel turns easily, but never attempted carved turns until last winter. They were definitely easier when I skied at Breck/Keystone last spring and had more space.

Edit: looks like I have to run and help cook T-day dinner--thank you for the replies everyone, will reply more later! :smile:
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@liquidfeet I know you love to expound on the technical definitions of skiing and that's fine but when skiers are learning.. what happens when their bad habits flare up? when they get in the back seat, off balance, scared, stuck on a cross fall line, are on a crowded slope? In my experience, I see all the techno stuff going right out the window and they hang on by the seat of their pants, survival instinct sets in, toes are curled in their boots. That is why I think having a ski that 'forgives' isn't a bad thing. You have to agree a Stiff Higher end ski is more demanding? To me Carving is skis on edge leaving rail road tracks, no skid marks.
https://vtskiandride.com/perfect-carve/
Our OP wants to buy skis that will help her learn to carve. She has experienced the speed of a carved turn and hasn't liked that speed, but wants to continue. She's already figured out that a short radius ski is appropriate for her needs. My ski advice is to find a short radius ski that is torsionally stiff enough to hold a carve.

However, I've been on skis whose tips and tails twist away from the snow when tipped on edge. Some skis are built to twist away. This twisting is due to torsional softness. That's implied by the very vague term "forgiving." Another thing implied by that term is longitudinal softness, and a large sweet spot in the middle that won't punish a skier who is back seat. Learners do tend to be back seat for years before they figure out how to get out of the back seat. So a large sweet spot for skiers still working on finding center/forward is good. Longitudinal softness, enough to help a slow, cautious, low-edge-angle skier feel the bend, is good too. And feeling that bend when carving is necessary, so an "expert" ski is not called for in this case.

But a ski with torsional softness will make it difficult for a budding carver to learn to link carved turns.

I think you are responding to her caution, and giving this OP advice based on your prediction that she may give up on carving (arc to arc) altogether since that involves speed. You may be right; she may not really want to learn to carve once she realizes what that means. The article you linked is excellent in explaining verbally how to carve.

@Auri-616, I'm recommending that you get a ski with torsional stiffness ... if you genuinely want to learn to carve. You won't be carving all your turns, just sometimes, on mostly low pitch terrain, when it's empty. This is thrilling to do. But you won't be carving steepish blue terrain, because the speed will be dangerous. You'll need to be able to use those skis for skidded turns. That's a more useful skill than carving, since it's what you'll need to use most of the time.

Many shop people have no idea what the torsional stiffness of a ski is when they sell it to a buyer. The only way a buyer can tell is by looking up the manufacturer's info online, and checking out if a ski is targeted at advancing intermediates or not.

I'm standing by my recommendations, even though @nopoleskier has been skiing a lifetime and I learned as an adult, even though nopole can carve a 2X4 and I prefer carving with skis.
 

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