Heel Lifts

[ski diva]

I wonder if a device like the Skia Sweetspot Trainer would be helpful for you. You could test it out with and without the lifts in your boots. I think @ski diva did a review of it somewhere on this site. New, they're not super-expensive, but you could check eBay for used or I can send you mine (if I can find it) because I don't use it.

It's especially frustrating for you, @AJM , thinking of this, knowing that your season is closing.

I did! You can find it here.

 

[SarahXC]

When I tried to go without heel lifts I got massive cramping up into my hamstrings as well. My PT had me doing stretching / massage etc for my whole posterior chain. So maybe some stretching and exercises into the hamstrings and beyond could be helpful.

 

[AJM]

When I tried to go without heel lifts I got massive cramping up into my hamstrings as well. My PT had me doing stretching / massage etc for my whole posterior chain. So maybe some stretching and exercises into the hamstrings and beyond could be helpful.

Thats pretty much what I get as well, I tried my boots on again today at home without the lifts and yup I just cant do it, this time everything ached and hurt from my calves to my hamstrings. I even went so far as to put my ski's on as well mainly to try out @liquidfeet 's advice, I couldnt get out of my boots fast enough. Heel lifts back in and tried again and sooooo much better so to heck with it I'm sticking with them and I'm going to focus on getting grounded and more balanced via @liquidfeet 's method.
I think what @mustski said is spot on in that my boots were fitted with the lifts in so to take them out starts a chain reaction.

 

[tinymoose]

Try working* on your feet and the tibialis anterior muscles along with the calf muscles. Maybe if you include the areas around and below the calf muscles, it'll help them too. *working -- I mean whatever therapy you opt for, massage, stretching, strengthening, etc.

Have you asked a bootfitter? I'm not familiar with that boot. 110 is pretty agfressive in general, so I am wondering if the boot has a more aggressive forward lean along with being stiff. But you've had the issue with other boots, so maybe not.

I have STI 70 LC junior boots and STIs are weirdly upright for a race boot

 

[tinymoose]

If heel lifts work for you, use them. Try with and without. Different people have different anatomy, different binding mount positions, different ramp angles and so on. Trial and error is key.

Dorsiflex for tongue-shin contact and balance over the arch-heel. Ski this way. Open knees to bring hips (and upper body) up and forward until you can feel the fronts of the skis in contact with the snow and gripping it, and the backs of the skis gripping. Practice paying attention to whether you can feel them both gripping equally. That's your goal.

When you feel grip along the whole length of the skis, you're golden.

I have one of the world's worst cases of garbage dorsiflexion. My ankles don't go past 90 w/o huge input and even then it's minimal but it makes for great ankle stability. Great for stable gymnastics landings, bad for skiing. FWIW I do better with a toe lift vs heel lift b/c it forces me into dorsiflexion, but my STIs I just ski them flat. I don't have any great hope that my dorsiflexion is gonna change mid-40s. So find what is comfortable and ski it. As @liquidfeet said everyone's body is different and why fight the norm. So heel lift works for you; flat to toe lift works for me.

 

[AJM]

So find what is comfortable and ski it.

Music to my ears
I've decided to just embrace my heel lifts, hey they've worked for me for a loooong time now !
I am super keen to get out there and try the advice @liquidfeet gave me though

 

[AJM]

I have STI 70 LC junior boots and STIs are weirdly upright for a race boot

I'm not sure what the forward lean is on them .. 16 degrees ???
I went down another rabbit hole yesterday .... I know I know, this is what happens when the snow disappears !!! ..... to try and find out what it was and how it compared but I kept wandering around in cyber space and cant remember exactly what it was

 

[liquidfeet]

Music to my ears
I've decided to just embrace my heel lifts, hey they've worked for me for a loooong time now !
I am super keen to get out there and try the advice @liquidfeet gave me though

Report back!

 

[AJM]

Report back!

Most definitely !! It might be a week or so depending on when we can get to Mt Hutt.

 

[SarahXC]

I’m with you. I know they don’t work for a lot of people but I am embracing my heel lifts too!

 

[empogo]

I wonder if the heel lifts are putting the widest part of your calf just high enough to not be bothered by the boot cuff— but once you’re lower into the heel maybe the cuff is squeezing in an uncomfortable spot? I don’t know, I’d probably talk to a few boot fitters about it.

working on dorsiflexion is definitely good, I’m shifting into doing a lot of one legged exercises at the gym for the fall before getting back on snow. (Strength training in general has helped me immensely— lifting heavy weight consistently.)

 

[mustski]

I’m with you. I know they don’t work for a lot of people but I am embracing my heel lifts too!

If you need ‘em, you need ‘em. I have skied both with and without them over the years. Once the boot is properly dialed in, they help a lot. I do lift my toes also - particularly in powder, as it helps compensate for poor dorsiflexion.

 

[AJM]

I do lift my toes also

I do this as well.

 

[scandium]

I'm not sure what the forward lean is on them .. 16 degrees ???
I went down another rabbit hole yesterday .... I know I know, this is what happens when the snow disappears !!! ..... to try and find out what it was and how it compared but I kept wandering around in cyber space and cant remember exactly what it was

From the atomic boot designer himself (found randomly over at skitalk)

"Atomic thinks that our recipe of a 15° forward lean combined with a 4° ramp angle is a great start, but there are many biomechanical factors that can change that. This is why every Hawx boot with an "S" in its name has the ability for the cuff to be positioned at 17° or 15° or 13° depending on what you need and Redster boots (aside from the 70 LC) can be positioned between 16°-18°."

 

[liquidfeet]

I wonder if the heel lifts are putting the widest part of your calf just high enough to not be bothered by the boot cuff— but once you’re lower into the heel maybe the cuff is squeezing in an uncomfortable spot? I don’t know, I’d probably talk to a few boot fitters about it.

working on dorsiflexion is definitely good, I’m shifting into doing a lot of one legged exercises at the gym for the fall before getting back on snow. (Strength training in general has helped me immensely— lifting heavy weight consistently.)

Fascinating thought on the effect of tightness at the top of the cuff. That certainly could be it.

As for dorsiflexion ... I'm working on holding onto my dorsiflexion on my walks and runs. I consider it important dryland training for skiing, where keeping my ankles closed is so important.

I lost my focus on dorsiflexion so easily at the start of last season. I kept finding that my ankles were open, and behold I was in the back seat and losing a good amount of control over my turns. It took several days to get that dorsiflexion back in place. I don't want that to happen again this season.

For me, it's not the strength of my tibialis anterior that needs work, it's my ability to maintain my brain-muscle focus in order to not lose the dorsiflexion. That's what needs training. If I can get the conscious focus to hold, then with mileage (this summer, walking and running), the movement pattern should start getting embedded in muscle memory.

Just like in skiing, I find the dorsiflexion happens most easily if my immediate focus is on pulling my feet back. For walking/running, that morphs into pushing my feet back, waaay back, with every push-off. When doing this either way, pulling or pushing, I close my ankle so that my lower leg and foot form an arrow. Then I project that arrow head back.

The pointier the arrow, the stronger the dorsiflexion. The farther back that arrow head, the more forward my weight is. And an added benefit of walking/running this way, with strong hip extension to get my foot and knee way behind me as I push off, is the workout my glutes get.

 

[AJM]

Fascinating thought on the effect of tightness at the top of the cuff. That certainly could be it.

As for dorsiflexion ... I'm working on holding onto my dorsiflexion on my walks and runs. I consider it important dryland training for skiing, where keeping my ankles closed is so important.

I lost my focus on dorsiflexion so easily at the start of last season. I kept finding that my ankles were open, and behold I was in the back seat and losing a good amount of control over my turns. It took several days to get that dorsiflexion back in place. I don't want that to happen again this season.

For me, it's not the strength of my tibialis anterior that needs work, it's my ability to maintain my brain-muscle focus in order to not lose the dorsiflexion. That's what needs training. If I can get the conscious focus to hold, then with mileage (this summer, walking and running), the movement pattern should start getting embedded in muscle memory.

Just like in skiing, I find the dorsiflexion happens most easily if my focus is on pushing back my feet, waaay back, as I walk/run. I point my heel back, making my lower leg-foot into an arrow. The pointier the arrow, the stronger the dorsiflexion. An added benefit of walking/running this way, with strong hip extension to get my foot and knee way behind me, is the workout my glutes get.

I comlpletely lost my focus on dorsiflexion at the start of our season and had to train my self to consciously remember it !! Even though I have pretty bad dorsiflexion when I do remember boy oh boy does it make a difference.
As an avid walker/hiker I've been focusing on your advice of finding that heel arch which will hopefully translate when I get back on ski's (fingers crossed this coming week) but now I'll also add dorsiflexion into the mix.

 

[liquidfeet]

I comlpletely lost my focus on dorsiflexion at the start of our season and had to train my self to consciously remember it !! Even though I have pretty bad dorsiflexion when I do remember boy oh boy does it make a difference.
As an avid walker/hiker I've been focusing on your advice of finding that heel arch which will hopefully translate when I get back on ski's (fingers crossed this coming week) but now I'll also add dorsiflexion into the mix.

I think about this stuff every day. Since we're on the topic, here's one more thing I'm working on.

I pay attention to where my feet are relative to my center of mass. Now center of mass is not something I can pinpoint as I walk or run, or ski. Not with the specificity an engineer would like. But I can feel whether my stance foot is out in front of me or under me or back behind me. The "me" in that sentence serves pretty well as my center of mass.

When skiing, my feet need to stay either under or behind "me." NOT out front of me. I can easily feel where they are relative to "me" when on snow. Keeping them back, not out in front, assures me that I'm not skiing in the back seat. The same goes for walking and running. The term for planting one's foot on the ground out in front, when running, is "over striding." It's a no-no. It produces high impact on the knees and slows one down. The foot needs to be planted beneath the runner and extended back.

The problem arises, "over striding" on dry land, or skiing in the back seat in snow, when one is heading downhill. It feels insecure to keep the feet back. Having feet (or foot) out in front feels secure. On snow, giving in to that sense of security causes one to lose the usefulness of the front half of the skis. Control of the turn slips away. Giving in on dry land causes one to put those knees in danger of damage from repeated impact.

Practicing paying attention to where the feet are relative to "me" when walking/running, especially when going downhill, and practicing keeping the foot plant under me then extending back, is great practice for skiing.

All that stuff about arch-heel and dorsiflexing and pulling feet back and pointing the arrow etc complement this. It's all connected.

There's commitment to do it. I've got this.
Then there's forgetting to do it. Losing focus. I have to work on this constantly.



This is very nerdy talk. I'm glad to find some folks can tolerate this type of discussion.

 

[AJM]

I think about this stuff every day. Since we're on the topic, here's one more thing I'm working on.

I pay attention to where my feet are relative to my center of mass. Now center of mass is not something I can pinpoint as I walk or run, or ski. Not with the specificity an engineer would like. But I can feel whether my stance foot is out in front of me or under me or back behind me. The "me" in that sentence serves pretty well as my center of mass.

When skiing, my feet need to stay either under or behind "me." NOT out front of me. I can easily feel where they are relative to "me" when on snow. Keeping them back, not out in front, assures me that I'm not skiing in the back seat. The same goes for walking and running. The term for planting one's foot on the ground out in front, when running, is "over striding." It's a no-no. It produces high impact on the knees and slows one down. The foot needs to be planted beneath the runner and extended back.

The problem arises, "over striding" on dry land, or skiing in the back seat in snow, when one is heading downhill. It feels insecure to keep the feet back. Having feet (or foot) out in front feels secure. On snow, giving in to that sense of security causes one to lose the usefulness of the front half of the skis. Control of the turn slips away. Giving in on dry land causes one to put those knees in danger of damage from repeated impact.

Practicing paying attention to where the feet are relative to "me" when walking/running, especially when going downhill, and practicing keeping the foot plant under me then extending back, is great practice for skiing.

All that stuff about arch-heel and dorsiflexing and pulling feet back and pointing the arrow etc complement this. It's all connected.

There's commitment to do it. I've got this.
Then there's forgetting to do it. Losing focus. I have to work on this constantly.



This is very nerdy talk. I'm glad to find some folks can tolerate this type of discussion.

This is fantastic !!
As I walk or hike everyday this is great information with the added bonus of it translating to my skiing.
I've never been a runner but I am feeling the urge to give it a go even though my PT told me it was one of the things I should never do (along with Netball and Tennis) due the injuries I sustained after my accident. I have broken out on my daily walks into a light jog occassionally just to see how it all feels and its been ok(ish) so I may persevere and see where it takes me x

 

[liquidfeet]

This is fantastic !!
As I walk or hike everyday this is great information with the added bonus of it translating to my skiing.
I've never been a runner but I am feeling the urge to give it a go even though my PT told me it was one of the things I should never do (along with Netball and Tennis) due the injuries I sustained after my accident. I have broken out on my daily walks into a light jog occassionally just to see how it all feels and its been ok(ish) so I may persevere and see where it takes me x

Best of luck with your experiment running (against dr's orders). Do what ever you need to do to minimize impact. Did your injury inpact your ankle, knee, hip, or spine?

Land soft, with knee bent, never ever with leg extended, and foot plant below you - always. The extension is back behind you for your push-off. Run slow and focus on form not speed. Keep body low between landings, so you don't bob up and down much - this also helps to minimize impact on joints. Enjoy!

Downhills are the most dangerous for negatively impacting knees. Since you've been told to never run, but want to, at least avoid downhills. Stay on the flats. If your knees start to hurt, or your other joints, STOP running. It's just not worth joint injury.

I speak from experience.

 

[AJM]

Did your injury inpact your ankle, knee, hip, or spine?

3 out of those 4 ..... my hips survived !
Its probably not the best idea I've ever had , think I'll just stick to my lane and focus on the walking and hiking oh and paddleboarding x