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Heel bone digging into back of boot when flexing. Any other ladies had this issue?

mustski

Angel Diva
Why not Intuitions? They’re designed to be heat molded around every bump and contour on your foot. They’ll be thicker than what she has now, adding extra padding in the heel. To me, that seems like a completely viable solution.
Because although they mold to fit around the shape of the foot, they do not "fill" spaces between the foot and the shell that may be permitting movement. Both zip fits and boot doc liners allow addition of material to "fill" those tiny spaces and lock down the heel, stopping movement. This does not solve the problem of a too big shell, but it does fix the problem of small spaces around the heel that permit small movements.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Yeah, it *feels* like the shape of the boot shell just doesn't match my heel haha. But that's probably because my heel has become all mutant :P The heels of the shell could probably stand to be a tad narrower but it is what it is I think. My street size is NZ 6 (or EU 37-38) and my boot is a 22.5 LV (atomic hawx ultra - "98mm" quoted last, 90mm last at that length as per the bottom of the boot).
You have very small feet. I have average sized feet, but I am much narrower in the heel in my left foot. I have never had a boot that fit or completely stopped heel movement - including heel lifts pushing me up and out of the heel pocked. My too narrow heel permitted this easily once I was raised even slightly in the shell. If I hit a bump or a roller too hard, boom. My foot was out of position. The heel no boot was made for has caused me much pain over my lifetime of skiing. The only thing that has worked is boot doc liners which are custom foamed to fill the spaces between your foot and the shell. This solved my problem. I have never tried zip fits, but they are a similar type of approach.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Why not Intuitions? They’re designed to be heat molded around every bump and contour on your foot. They’ll be thicker than what she has now, adding extra padding in the heel. To me, that seems like a completely viable solution.
But if her heel will be changing shape in the near future, Intuition liners would need to be re-molded. Although that's quite possible to do a few times. Usually done when someone moves Intuition liners to new boots.

Intuition and Zipfit liners are based on completely different materials. So they address fit issues somewhat differently. I learned a lot talking to a boot fitter in Mammoth who handles both Intuition and Zipfit. Got to feel the "cork" material that is the basis of Zipfit liners. My feet are not complicated. In my case, he was very clear that Intuition would be better.
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
Because although they mold to fit around the shape of the foot, they do not "fill" spaces between the foot and the shell that may be permitting movement. Both zip fits and boot doc liners allow addition of material to "fill" those tiny spaces and lock down the heel, stopping movement. This does not solve the problem of a too big shell, but it does fix the problem of small spaces around the heel that permit small movements.

Agreed, but not knowing if the shell is the wrong size or fit, or if she just needs a little extra padding to cushion between the shell and her foot. I'd say Intuitions may offer the relief she's looking for, at a much lower price point than Zipfits. I'm not saying it will...but I personally don't think you can rule them out as a possible solution.
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
But if her heel will be changing shape in the near future, Intuition liners would need to be re-molded. Although that's quite possible to do a few times. Usually done when someone moves Intuition liners to new boots.

You can remold Intuitions 4 or 5 times. I really don't see that as a downside.

Intuition and Zipfit liners are based on completely different materials. So they address fit issues somewhat differently. I learned a lot talking to a boot fitter in Mammoth who handles both Intuition and Zipfit. Got to feel the "cork" material that is the basis of Zipfit liners. My feet are not complicated. In my case, he was very clear that Intuition would be better.

100% this. They are different and solve different problems, only you and your bootfitter can really figure out what you need.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
All liners will work - some work better than others. The OP has developed a bony protrusion as the season progressed. This is an unusual type of reaction and it does imply movement within the boot as the liners packed in. I still say that if the shell fits (and it probably does) then you need to address the small areas of space between the foot and the liner. Intuitions will not address that. All intuitions do is provide a custom fit and warmer liner. Of course, a boot fitter is always the best choice, but they are not always knowledgeable about all the options. I learned that the hard way. Also, you should beware of remolding intuitions too often. They degrade with each remolding aka you lose time off the life of the liner - per a couple of different boot fitters. I went 20 years and no one could find a boot that fit me right. Finally, I had to decide between boot docs custom liners or zip fit. I personally chose boot doc because I felt they would be the better choice of the two. It's always personal. If you have easy feet, then Intuitions are awesome -warm and comfortable. However, they do not solve fit problems.
 

fgor

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
TL;DR: GOT ZIPFITS, FEELING A BIT HAPPIER

It's been a week or so - I've skied 5 days since I last updated and the ski season here at Mt Hutt has come to an end as of today. :'( I finished my ski season with 33 days skied. I thought I might get about 15 - I'm very impressed and sort of astounded at myself!

In that time I've visited my bootfitting shop 4 times. They are always happy to see me (somehow!!) and never get frustrated at my ongoing foot problems, which is just lovely. We've had a real variety of snow and weather conditions, from 4 inches of fresh powder (which removes the problem temporarily - not as much heel/ankle flexing! however a weird amount of arch pain haha) to a bluebird tshirt day to two days of skiing through sleet. Spring weather eh :smile: I also managed to get a handle on the boot pain enough to have a final two hour lesson which was fantastic; my skiing is really coming along and although overall it still looks pretty clunky a lot of the time, it's getting there! I'm slowly getting more rhythm and control. However in order to control the heel pain, I had to crank my boot buckles pretty damn tightly. I was having to unbuckle my boots every time we stopped mid-run to discuss anything.

I went to my boot fitter the next day and told him skiing was brilliant aside from the unending foot pain and associated frustration, and he worked with me for nearly three hours (!!!) well past the shop's closing time. I apologised and he said it's not the latest they've stayed for customers! We ended up discussing aftermarket liners, which he'd actually told me about the first day I got fitted back in May - due to the difficult shape of my feet and narrow heel, he predicted months ago that I'd end up in aftermarket liners eventually.

The shop sells both Intuition and Zipfit. We looked at both and he commented that Intuition might be more of an instant fix to cushion the area and tighten everything up a bit, given the factory liner has certainly packed out a bit in 30 days - however his recommendation was for Zipfits for a more long term solution. He thinks the heel lump may subside a bit after a couple of months not skiing, but if so both he and I are anxious to see it NOT return, and wants to cut down on as much movement in my ski boot as possible. (looking at past photos of my feet, it looks like I previously had a small bony protrusion there, but not the size it is now!)

I've just finished skiing my third day in new Zipfit liners and there's some definite improvement. My heel hold is much better, I still have a little pressure on the back of my heel occasionally but the general consensus is that the area is now inflamed and needs time to settle down. However the pressure that I now have is tolerable. Day 1 with the zipfits was a little hellish because I had too much pressure over my instep (the only "average" part of my foot :P) and one of my feet kept going completely numb. I must have taken my boots entirely off at least ten times! I went back to the shop and was told that breaking in Zipfits can take a while (despite being moulded in the shop), but they also relaced them so the laces weren't over the instep. Days 2 and 3 were actually much better so I guess they were right :smile: I'm still tweaking the buckles but I'm feeling a lot more confident in my boots now. I feel like I will actually be able to ski during my mid-summer Canadian ski trip instead of just hanging out at the skifield bar mourning my feet :rotf:

Boot carnage - foam everywhere:
boot1.jpeg

Old boots, new liners:
boot2.jpeg

As a side note, when I popped back to the shop and saw one of the other fitters (there's three, two of whom co-own the shop, and they all know me now) as soon as they saw the zipfits they commented something like "oh I knew you'd end up in those eventually" :P

And because I like to chat about skiing in general too much: this was the weather today, the last day of the season! It was wild, it went from this:
ski1.jpeg

to this:
ski2.jpeg

and then we had a little sun but mostly very thick clouds/fog the rest of the day. If you waited long enough the vis would clear for a run but then it would cloud over again At one point I estimate I had about 3 metres of visibility! Really nice snow conditions though surprisingly :smile: and I was able to focus a bit more on my skiing and a bit less on my boots, which is definitely a step in the right direction.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
@fgor this sounds great, and I’m so glad that you are still so very enthusiastic about skiing through all of the bootfitting challenges this season! Bonus is that it sounds like your fitter is a very good listener and committed to making your feet happy, that’s priceless! Looking forward to your update after your heel has some time to heal leading up to your summer trip.. and you know where to find lots of ski chatter here with us in the meantime! :thumbsup:
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Post when you trip to WB is, in the "meet on hill" section. Maybe we get some Canadian Diva's to meet up with you.

Glad things worked out. As you have found out, if you're feet ain't happy, you're not skiing!! This is why a boot fitter is so important.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Yay! I am so glad that you found something that works. Remember that with zip fits, your fitter can also add and remove the cork as needed to adjust the fit once the swelling goes down.
 

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