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Head v-shape v8 vs super joy

LKillick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#1
Anyone skied both of these and able to compare? I asked to demo the super joy at a head tent today but they only had them available in a length far too short for me. He suggested I try the v8 instead, which I loved. Wondering how similar the super joy is... looks quite so from the identical material and close measurements. Wishing I had waited longer before buying the black pearl 88s I’m skiing on now... the v8 was so fun on the groomers. Also loved the stormrider 85, though not nearly as narrow, lots of fun.

Thanks for any thoughts!
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#2
I'm on the Super Joy at 163, and it's new to me. I don't know anything about the other ski in question.

I bought it without demoing. I've been surprised. Not sure whether I like it or not. We are getting used to each other, this ski and me.

The Super Joy skis differently from other skis I've owned, probably because it is so light combined with being stiff. It responds quickly and immediately to any little movement I make. That's good, but I sure need to be precise. It grips well, meaning it's quite willing to carve, and that's good. But I miss the dampness of my previous daily drivers (Kastle FX84s).

People say because of its lightness it doesn't offer the stability one needs in heavy chopped up crud, but I haven't run into those conditions yet this season. Do you want to ski cut-up crud with this ski? Then it may not be for you.

I haven't gotten rebound from it yet, and have done what needs to be done to get that rebound while carving on groomers, so there's that. I'm not expecting any "pop." And I usually ski Kastle FX 84s, which have a layer of rubber or something in them to make them damp, so I don't usually get "pop." These SuperJoy's are Not Damp. Not at all. If you are used to the Kastle feel and like it, you may miss that dampness.

Why do some manufacturers think women want light skis? Because it's a drag to carry them from the parking lot? Well, these are lighter, if that matters to you. I figured that if I hauled a pair of skis up Tuckerman Ravine, these would be easier to haul. I'm getting old so that would maybe make that trip more likely. But now that I've skied them, I'm not sure their other characteristics would be appropriate for skiing the conditions I might find up there. Just not sure.

My conclusion? The Super Joy is more like skiing a little Triumph TR-6 (close to the road and fast in response) than a Hummer (like some Atomics I've had in the past, a warrior ski meant to blast through anything) or Mercedes S-class sedan (my FXs are like that, smooth and quiet no matter what I ask them to do).

Note: I love skiing bumps. It skied well in the baby bumps we now have forming on the mountain, and I expect it to ski just as well on bigger ones once they form. If I'm lightening the skis and rotating them to ski a narrow bump line, the lightness may be an advantage on long runs, cutting down on fatigue. And when I was carving (ish) short radius turns on these easy bumps, it did well too.
 
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LKillick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#3
Hm, interesting, thank you.

If I’m being honest, I ski on groomers on icy terrain the vast majority of the time. Having taken a lot of years off and being back in the saddle for my third season since, my childhood straight ski old habits die hard. Just had a fantastic lesson that helped remind me how to let my skis turn me rather than trying to move my skis. Was shocked at how great I felt on the narrower skis I demoed, especially the head. Much easier to put on edge and practice that form with, at least for me at this stage. I’m comfortable on any groomed slope but am needing to keep thinking hard to try to change those old habits.

I’m not sure I yet speak the right language to fully understand everything you were kind enough to write to me, but I get the vast majority. Thank you so much. Basically trying to justify a narrower carving ski after having a blast this weekend, but the question of crud is a good one. I’m not sure I care about light weight for carrying, just liked how the head v8s felt while skiing. Anxious to try to get on the super joys soon...
 

Ice Queen

Certified Ski Diva
#4
I was wondering what other people thought of the Super Joy. I tried them out the other day at the recommendation of a ski instructor friend of mine who thought I might like more of a carving ski (I'm on the Black Pearl 88's.) I really did not like this ski. I found it lacking on the ice, which is of course not what you want in a carver. My husband and I skied a late-day scraped off run at Stowe, he thought conditions were okay, I hated them and didn't want to do another run. Usually he's the one ready to quit...anyway, I was really disappointed with these skis after hearing other people rave about them. Guy at the shop said he thought a light ski is not the best for getting a grip on ice, so there's that.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#5
I sharpened mine this last week and skied them on skied-off steep groomer ice. Glare ice. They held just fine, or as fine as I can make any ski hold on that stuff. I am not willing to head downhill like the racer kids at mach schnell, so my short radius turns are not pure carves. But I could get reliable grip. I'm thinking the pair you tried maybe were not sharp.

The Super Joys are light in weight. That has an effect on "swing weight." So if you're pivoting your turns in the bumps they will react fast. It has taken me some time to get familiar with their fast response to my movements. Small imperfections in my timing are registered quickly by these skis. I'm getting used to that quick reaction time. Heavy skis are slower to register my movement imperfections.

They are nowhere near as heavy as my race slaloms, which also hold on ice just fine. It's the torsional stiffness of both skis, combined with their shape and tune, that allows them to grip on ice. And of course the skier doing the right stuff with the right timing.

That light swing weight does not figure into holding an edge on ice, assuming you're not pivoting them and hoping for grip. I wouldn't put too much credit in what the guy in the shop said about weight and grip on hard snow. These skis are torsionally stiff enough and have the shape to hold just fine.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
#6
I was wondering what other people thought of the Super Joy. I tried them out the other day at the recommendation of a ski instructor friend of mine who thought I might like more of a carving ski (I'm on the Black Pearl 88's.) I really did not like this ski.
Which BP88? The current version or the original from around 2012? I have the old one and like the BP88 from 2018. Have you demo'd any other models in the Head Joy line? Like many lines, there are women who like them and there are women who don't. What other mid-70s skis have you liked?

I liked Absolut Joy enough to buy them for mid-Altantic and northeast skiing a few years ago, and like the Total Joy on short demo runs. Have only taken a run at Alta in April on Super Joys that were too long (by 10cm) so don't really have true experience with them.
 

freckles

Certified Ski Diva
#7
I demoed both in 163 and loved them both. Neither ski has metal (they use Graphene for stiffness), and both are 75 underfoot, so they are nimble and flexy when carving. I found the Super Joy to be a touch more skiddy in the ice, but for a front-side groomer, they are both great skis and similar.
 
#8
OP, your post's key word = "love."
That's the ski.
The end.
I have the SuperJoy 163 (and like it) but no matter. You loved what you tried. That's your ski.
 

lisamamot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#9
Anyone skied both of these and able to compare? I asked to demo the super joy at a head tent today but they only had them available in a length far too short for me. He suggested I try the v8 instead, which I loved. Wondering how similar the super joy is... looks quite so from the identical material and close measurements. Wishing I had waited longer before buying the black pearl 88s I’m skiing on now... the v8 was so fun on the groomers. Also loved the stormrider 85, though not nearly as narrow, lots of fun.

Thanks for any thoughts!
The Head V Shape V8 is a lightweight 75mm carver with a super tight turning radius - they sound like an absolute blast for groomers.
https://www.skis.com/Head-V-Shape-V8-Skis-with-PRD-12-GW-Bindings/537511P,default,pd.html

If you still enjoy the BP88 in other circumstances you have yourself a start to a quiver - welcome to the club! The shape and width of the BP88 will be great fun when you have additional snow and when things get are more variable.

Why do some manufacturers think women want light skis? Because it's a drag to carry them from the parking lot?
From my perspective it has nothing to do with carry weight, it is swing weight and how nimble and crazy fun and responsive they are. I am also tall and prefer to ski a ski that is commensurate with my height which definitely narrows the construction options for me as I don't feel I have the power to bend long and heavy stiff skis....plus I don't find them fun. Many heavier and damp skis make me feel like I am driving a sturdy but unexciting vehicle...sometimes without power steering. I can ski them and they will get me safely where I want to go, but man was it a staid and sometimes tiring trip.

I actually do find that the metal/heavy(ish) skis bite better than stiff/lightweight skis. My "ice skates" are the Blizzard Viva 810 ti. They are stiff, have metal and bite like no ones business - they cut through chop and I trust them on the iciest of days..those days where if I didn't own them I wouldn't be skiing. I would not however willingly take them into the bumps or trees (shudder) - for me they are not versatile and lack that playfulness I want in those conditions.
https://www.onthesnow.com/gear/a/22...side-ski-buyers-guide/blizzard/viva-810-ti-iq
 

LKillick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#10
Oooh, I missed that I had more replies. So, I did something really dumb, apparently.

Looking at the measurements and going with what the demo guy said about the V8 and the Super Joy being very similar, I bought a pair of Super Joys on crazy discount... took them to my local shop to have the DIN set. I should have bought the V8s.

I hate them. I don't know if its that I didn't try the V8s in variable enough conditions, if its the tune, or that I obviously should have skied the exact ski first and they don't ski similar for me. I do know my shop tech put a "race wax" on them and didn't do his normal edge detune since I said I like to ski fast. Perhaps that was a mistake. They're actually too fast for me right now, and I really do like to ski fast. I don't feel like I trust them. Have been back on my BPs very happily. Guess I'll take them back to discuss the tune and see if I grow into them by the end of the season, and if not, sell. Gah. At least they were a good deal so I could recoup...
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#12
.....I hate them. I don't know if its that I didn't try the V8s in variable enough conditions, if its the tune, or that I obviously should have skied the exact ski first and they don't ski similar for me. I do know my shop tech put a "race wax" on them and didn't do his normal edge detune since I said I like to ski fast. Perhaps that was a mistake. They're actually too fast for me right now, and I really do like to ski fast. I don't feel like I trust them. Have been back on my BPs very happily. Guess I'll take them back to discuss the tune and see if I grow into them by the end of the season, and if not, sell. Gah. At least they were a good deal so I could recoup...
@LKillick, can you say more about the two things in red above?
Is it the speed that leads you to not trust them, or something else? If you like to go fast, and you're going fast but not liking it, I am assuming that these skis take off on you.

--If you're skiing a flat ski, then it could be the wax. Did you keep the BPs waxed for the conditions of the day? If not, and these have fresh wax on them, and if you're skiing a flat ski or in powder, then the wax could make it glide faster than you're used to. Are you used to skiing a significantly wider-waisted ski while keeping it rather flat on the snow surface?

--However, the wax has an impact when you're going slow. Once sped up, the momentum takes over, so I'm thinking it might not be the wax.

--If you're skiing an edged ski where the tails follow the tips, wax could be making them go unexpectedly fast if they are embedded in snow.

--But if you're skiing on top of packed hard snow with edged skis, then your turn shape and edging will determine the speed. Are your previous skis different in waist width, did the BPs lack camber (the Super Joys have camber), and were the BPs softer in longitudinal flex than these skis? How about the turn radius of both skis... how do those compare? Any of those anatomical differences could put a ripple in your technique's effectiveness, requiring you to change what you are doing a bit to get the performance out of the Super Joys that you want.

--These are LIGHT in weight. Could that be impacting your trust in the skis? They don't even feel like they are there for me. I've gotten used to that lightness, but it took some time. I now like my Super Joys.
 

LKillick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#13
Thanks so much for your thoughts. I think it is mainly the speed, but overall there's something else that isn't acting quite right and I am not sure what it is. I was on packed snow at Deer Valley the last time I tried them. Other skiers were mentioning the "snow was fast" that day, which I've never heard someone say before... perhaps a given on the East coast! hah.

They're extremely fast. I am having trouble slowing them down, either by keeping the ski flat and doing a lot of turns, or even by smearing. Perhaps I need to learn more turning strategies. I grew up skiing and have learned a lot more about mechanics and the why/how in the last year or two, but I have a long way to go. My BPs are waxed every 5 days on the snow or so, and I've never felt like this on them. I

I saw the boot fitter today. He thinks part of why I am not feeling them might be the length. They're a tad longer than my black pearls but ski even longer (they're 168s, BPs are 166, I'm 5'8). Maybe he's right and I need to get used to that. I think the adjustments to my boots may help. I may not have been flexing them enough with the boot problems I was having -- huge heel lift affecting my form. Looking forward to trying again this coming week.
 
#14
I bought a pair of Super Joys on crazy discount
They're a tad longer than my black pearls but ski even longer (they're 168s, BPs are 166, I'm 5'8).
Haven't been following since we aren't in the same size category, but I don't go for the same length for skis 88 underfoot vs mid-70s. What I have right now is Absolut Joy, 78, @148 and Stormrider 85 @159. My old Black Pearls are 88mm and 159cm. I demo'd the AJ @154 and they were good but I opted to buy shorter and I'm definitely happy with that choice.
 

LKillick

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
#15
Hm, so maybe he's right and its partially the length that's the "don't like it but don't know why" factor. I'll try them out mid-Liberty enrichment and see how I'm feeling on them after some more coaching, or if my instructor thinks I'm doing anything on them that is causing me problems.
 
#16
They're extremely fast. I am having trouble slowing them down, either by keeping the ski flat and doing a lot of turns, or even by smearing.
At your height of 5'8, the 168 is a pretty spot-on length.
I'm 5'5, and the 163's are lovely. Wow, I've never had the feeling that they're "going too fast." And they smear, if requested. I'm stumped as to why this is going on....:noidea:
 

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