Question: Groomed vs Powder at Resorts?

[JO-ski]

I had a question about groomed vs powder. I've always been curious... Before you go to a resort, how do you know which runs are powder and which are groomed? Is it just the more advanced runs that are powder? Does it usually say on the trail map?

 

[santacruz skier]

Check the daily report for the resort, specifically lift and terrain status.

 

[HuntersEmma57]

I had a question about groomed vs powder. I've always been curious... Before you go to a resort, how do you know which runs are powder and which are groomed? Is it just the more advanced runs that are powder? Does it usually say on the trail map?

That's actually a good question. Nearly all groomed trails are named, marked, and rated for difficulty.

Every morning, every resort I know of will post online and some on electronic boards what lifts are open and what trails been groomed and what trails are ungroomed.

The tell-tale sign of a groomed run is the smooth, level prepared corduroy surface. When new snow falls after grooming crews are are done, that fresh snow atop a firm base can be considered powder and when it's deeper, it's a great place to learn powder technique.

Many people refer to skiing in a few inches of fresh snow on top of a groomer as powder skiing and it is indeed sweet. I call that skiing cream or velvet or skiing hero snow. Everybody looks good. :-) A trail listed as groomed may have been groomed at midnight, but a bunch of snow overnight can turn any trail into a pretty legit powder run.

Most resorts have some black or blue/blacks defined trails cleared of trees that remain ungroomed - which means they don't have the smooth, even base. At busier resorts, these trails can get "skied out" and really bumped up forming moguls. Colorado resorts are famous for steep, technical moguls. It's a specialty and a delight unto itself. A fresh dump usually isn't enough to bury well-formed moguls completely and they are very challenging. I personally don't think of moguls as powder skiing even with fresh snow because it requires a different approach and skillset.

Utahns don't seem to like old snow and some resorts will periodically groom out or reset the bumps and let them reform. These ungroomed runs will still have trail names. They can be more challenging with that overnight powder dump because they've been grooved up by skiers and boarders - no smooth bottom. Be prepared for obstacles.

I use the term "off piste" to describe areas of the mountain that are never groomed and have not been cleared terrain (usually advanced/expert) -- often steep bowls and trees. While the trail maps may show a name, those names refer to a general area.

Off piste is tree and bowls and can be powder skiing when there's fresh lighter snow a/k/a powder. In other words, off piste means off the machined groomed trails, but is not always synonymous with powder.

What many purists call powder skiing is skiing terrain that is au naturale - wild, untamed, never groomed, generally unpredictable, and is characterized by natural obstacles - trees, rock ledges, cliffs, chutes, cornices, ravines, etc. For some, that means backcountry only. Depends on your mountain. Powder Mountain is more wild than most and the inbounds powder feels endless, but any mountain that goes enough days without fresh snow will eventually not have powder. You can still ski that off piste wild snow, but it ain't powder if it ain't fluffy.

 

[floatingyardsale]

What you'll find easily is "groomed" versus "ungroomed", which many resorts indicate on their conditions page. At many resorts out West a lot of the best skiing is in between named runs.

Whether there's powder depends on the weather. It has to be snowing, and with a high snow:water ratio. Dry cold snow is fluffy powder. Wet warmer snow is heavy. OpenSnow is a good resource for what snow to expect.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

There is no way to really know before you go to the resort which runs will have powder, or which will be groomed as it depends on the snow fall during the night and morning as well as the runs that the groomers choose to groom on any given night.

As stated above most resorts will have a report of what happened in terms of grooming and snow fall. Beyond that, knowing each resort, and the wind direction and the amount of snow fall at different elevations and when each run is groomed can help you determine where you may or may not find powder after a snow storm.

For certain some runs at some resorts are never groomed because they are either too narrow or too steep for a snowcat machine to groom them even with a winch! These types of runs typically develop huge moguls in between storms. With big wind events, these runs get what we refer to as wind grooming, when the fresh falling snow fills in the troughs between the bumps. It does not happen frequently but acts as a reset the way that the machine grooming can.

Last but not least, it is important to clarify on this page that has international participants, that off piste, a french word for not on the groomed run, means something very different in europe. In europe off piste is the same as out of bounds in the US, even though the ungroomed areas are within the ski area boundary. In other words, a beautiful looking powder field between two groomed runs in the alps is NOT controlled for avalanches the way that it would be in the US. This distinction proved fatal for young american ski racers in the alps who left the groomers to ski the powder at a resort. We often get europeans that want a guide for off piste skiing and don't realize that the US has redefined the meaning.

 

[santacruz skier]

Really good point about off piste in Europe vs US

 

[Christy]

What you'll find easily is "groomed" versus "ungroomed", which many resorts indicate on their conditions page. At many resorts out West a lot of the best skiing is in between named runs.

Whether there's powder depends on the weather. It has to be snowing, and with a high snow:water ratio. Dry cold snow is fluffy powder. Wet warmer snow is heavy. OpenSnow is a good resource for what snow to expect.

^^Agreed. What you often will get, even at resorts famous for their "powder," is the choice of groomed or ungroomed hardpack. Or groomers in fine shape and the ungroomed areas in fine shape, but without new powder. Or if you are lucky powder everywhere even on groomers, because it snowed overnight after the slopes were groomed the prior evening.

 

[HuntersEmma57]

There is no way to really know before you go to the resort which runs will have powder, or which will be groomed as it depends on the snow fall during the night and morning as well as the runs that the groomers choose to groom on any given night.

As stated above most resorts will have a report of what happened in terms of grooming and snow fall. Beyond that, knowing each resort, and the wind direction and the amount of snow fall at different elevations and when each run is groomed can help you determine where you may or may not find powder after a snow storm.

For certain some runs at some resorts are never groomed because they are either too narrow or too steep for a snowcat machine to groom them even with a winch! These types of runs typically develop huge moguls in between storms. With big wind events, these runs get what we refer to as wind grooming, when the fresh falling snow fills in the troughs between the bumps. It does not happen frequently but acts as a reset the way that the machine grooming can.

Last but not least, it is important to clarify on this page that has international participants, that off piste, a french word for not on the groomed run, means something very different in europe. In europe off piste is the same as out of bounds in the US, even though the ungroomed areas are within the ski area boundary. In other words, a beautiful looking powder field between two groomed runs in the alps is NOT controlled for avalanches the way that it would be in the US. This distinction proved fatal for young american ski racers in the alps who left the groomers to ski the powder at a resort. We often get europeans that want a guide for off piste skiing and don't realize that the US has redefined the meaning.

Thanks for the excellent point clarifying that "off piste" has a different interpretation in Europe and perhaps elsewhere.

 

[skinnyfootskis]

Buyer beware....even though a run says groomed, a lot of it depends on what time you get to said run. There can be push piles throughout but there can also be nice snow. I noticed out West they don't really groom if it snows .....only some green runs depending on what mountain.

 

[JO-ski]

Buyer beware....even though a run says groomed, a lot of it depends on what time you get to said run. There can be push piles throughout but there can also be nice snow. I noticed out West they don't really groom if it snows .....only some green runs depending on what mountain.

This is what I'd be nervous about. I was doing some research on resorts out west in BC. Revelstoke really excites me because of the length of the green runs. But what if it's all powder??! I'm not a good skier and am still learning a lot.

 

[Susan L]

There is also a difference between WHEN the grooming is done. Grooming done overnight versus the morning of could be night and day.

 

[Jilly]

Usually resorts will make sure the green runs are groomed. But it depends on when it snows and for how long. As much as Revelstoke intrigues you, Lake Louise might be better. And Banff is wonderful.

 

[HuntersEmma57]

Buyer beware....even though a run says groomed, a lot of it depends on what time you get to said run. There can be push piles throughout but there can also be nice snow. I noticed out West they don't really groom if it snows .....only some green runs depending on what mountain.

This is what I'd be nervous about. I was doing some research on resorts out west in BC. Revelstoke really excites me because of the length of the green runs. But what if it's all powder??! I'm not a good skier and am still learning a lot.

Not really my business, but I'm concerned given your description of your skills and desires. Revelstoke is a very long way to ski in a very cold place to ski greens. I can testify - we spent 22 hours one-way from Baltimore to get to Fernie, BC, flying into Calgary and then driving 6.5 hrs hours thru a large storm on snow covered icy roads. Whew. I love that mountain, but it was beyond exhausting just getting there and back.

Revelstoke is 4.5 hrs from Calgary on even more demanding roads. Revelstoke is not known for ease of accessibility from anywhere. Then only 7% of the terrain is rated for beginners. Yes, there is that one really long green run but it's a catwalk which can be a nightmare when it's foggy.

As to your concerns about fresh snow-covered green slopes, Revelstoke has the Canadian record for snowfall - over 80 feet in one season.

There are many beginner friendly places like Keystone, Park City, and Winter Park and Buttermilk (one of the 4 mountains that make up Aspen Snowmass) that are beloved by groomer and beginner skiers and that are easier to get to and around on the mountain and with a lot more other activities off the mountain.

Search for "best resorts for beginner skiers". Most mountains have something for everyone, but look for the percent of trails that are designated for beginners so you know you'll have variety.

Some highly rated resorts have been overrun by Epic or IKON so the skier experience has deteriorated radically. I personally recommend smaller and independent ski resorts for people early in their skiing careers. They're so much mellow and easier to get around on and not get lost or overwhelmed. Good luck whatever you choose!

 

[JO-ski]

Usually resorts will make sure the green runs are groomed. But it depends on when it snows and for how long. As much as Revelstoke intrigues you, Lake Louise might be better. And Banff is wonderful.

@Jilly I trust your recommendations because I've skied with you! I like wide and empty hills!

@HuntersEmma57 I get it. The big mountains are for the more experienced skiers. But there's something to be said about wanting to go on longer runs compared to the type of local hills we have here in Ontario. They're ok. But once in a while I like to go on longer runs. I ended our 2019 season in Bromont (Quebec), which was great.
I know nothing about Revelstoke except for what I found when I Googled "best ski resorts with green runs". Revelstoke came out on top. But maybe those websites don't give all the insider info. *Shrug*

Thanks for the insight on the travel to Revelstoke. It does sound treacherous. I do actually like skiing in -15C weather. The thing about local hills where I am is that they're TINY. I love the ones that we usually go to for practice all season long (Brimacombe, Glen Eden, Snow Valley), but I like aiming and having goals to experience the bigger hills once a year, even if it means just the greens when I go.

I totally agree. I am not a fan of the IKON pass resorts because of the crowds.

I keep seeing friends ski in the big resorts on these relatively flat runs and they're wide and almost empty with amazing views. They're not expert skiers either and they're on greens. Why can't I try that out?

Banff does sound wonderful especially since there are 3 resorts to choose from in the area. Baby steps.

My instructor also recommended Mont Blanc (Quebec) that's 20 mins from Tremblant and nowhere near as crowded.

If anyone has recommendations on big resorts in Canada that have great green runs, I'm open to hearing about them!

 

[marzNC]

If anyone has recommendations on big resorts in Canada that have great green runs, I'm open to hearing about them!

Have you heard of Sun Peaks? I've been reading about it on the Aussie ski forum. There are a number who have become regulars there spending 2-4 weeks in Jan and/or Feb since that's their summer time. There is an annual thread just about Sun Peaks.

I know someone who is an intermediate going to Sun Peaks in a few weeks with a ski club.

 

[Jilly]

A list??
Driving - Mont Ste Anne (it will be a good days drive, if the kids are good on the road), Owl's Head just beyond Bromont.
Fly - yes to Sun Peaks, Banff, Panarama.

Weekend - Calabogie Peaks, Mount Ste Marie (both ottawa area)

 

[skinnyfootskis]

This is what I'd be nervous about. I was doing some research on resorts out west in BC. Revelstoke really excites me because of the length of the green runs. But what if it's all powder??! I'm not a good skier and am still learning a lot.

Also look at Steamboat…it’s a pretty easy mountain…I agree with @HuntersEmma57

 

[Jilly]

Our OP is Canadian, and I'm sure like most of Canadians, spending another 46cents on the dollar, kind of hurts the budget. Exchange our way is $1.46 for 1 US dollar.

 

[JO-ski]

Our OP is Canadian, and I'm sure like most of Canadians, spending another 46cents on the dollar, kind of hurts the budget. Exchange our way is $1.46 for 1 US dollar.

It's true. The dollar is so painful right now!

 

[JO-ski]

A list??
Driving - Mont Ste Anne (it will be a good days drive, if the kids are good on the road), Owl's Head just beyond Bromont.
Fly - yes to Sun Peaks, Banff, Panarama.

Weekend - Calabogie Peaks, Mount Ste Marie (both ottawa area)

I was considering Calabogie for a winter cottage trip. I've heard good things! And also Mont Blanc.