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Good Karma

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well.....

The long-awaited Volkl Karmas finally showed up from the UPS man! Hubby immediately took them to be remounted and tuned while I was still at work on Thursday (he's such a nice guy!!). I got a chance to ski them Thursday night and all day Friday and Saturday. Conditions on the hill that we would usually consider less than optimum were actually the greatest conditions to check these skis out. Daytimes were 40-45 deg f, nighttimes were around 35is, and it rained on and off, so we got everything from icy corn snow to mashed potatoes, to really hard rain cured crust.

I just gotta say - WOW!!!!!

I expected another stable, slightly balky "fatty", but what I got was an agile, stable, all mountain ripper! The steeper the terrain, the happier it was. The faster I went, the happier it was. The more I carved, the happier it was. And yet....skidded, smeared turns at a snail's pace through super-heavy glop was a breeze, too. It has the carvability and fun factor of the Nordica Olympia Speed and Rossi Zenith Z9, and the stability of the K2 Outlaw without the hesitation and orneriness on shorter turns or slower speeds. It has a reasonably large sweet spot, but preferes to be driven from the middle or front. Only once when I got really lazy and way back did it punish me - that cute little twin tip rear hooked up and sent me on a flip-and-slide :o . I was amazed and thrilled to find that a ski this fat actually CAN make short turns. When driven like a slalom race ski with lots of angulation and power, it actually popped off short turns until I was breathless, yet in long turns, I was actually catching and passing my race tam buddies on their GS race skis without even trying.

Here's the cons: 1) It skis really short - the 177 skis like a combo of my 161cm 6* and my 168cm Vertigo G20. 2) The harder the snow got, the less happy it was - not surprising of course - although it never got sketchy on the rain cured crust. 3) While it can easily be skied by a lower level or lazy skier when flat and skidded, it requires real commitment to the edge change and a bit of angulation to carve it - mostly just because it is soooo fat under foot.

All-in-all, this is the best, funnest, most versatile all mountain ski I've been on in a long time. Billing this ski as a park-and-pipe twin tip is doing it a real disservice. If you rarely see midwest/east coast "hardpack" (aka Ice), or like a versatile ski that turns gunk and glop into play-time, take a serious look at this ski!! If you already have a carver, this is the perfect complement. (Good thing I like it since I now own it - and it matches my jacket too :D ).

ps...for you gear geeks... 119-87-111, 22.3 meter radius at 177cm.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
VolklGirl,

Now THAT'S a ski review! You cover how the ski performs on different types of snow, how it fulfills or surprises expectations given its dimensions and structural details, how it compares to models from other manufacturers, and how it might complement other skis in one's quivvvver. Thanks for using no "hot" phrases which appeal to those in the know and mystify newbies. (When I first began reading ski reviews in the magazines, it was all useless jibberish because so much of it was jazzy slang.) I think however, given my skiing skills (sketchy), I would have trouble making a ski with a turn radius of 22.3 m make anything close to a short turn on New England "snow."

Thus, I look forward to more of your reviews.
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hard snow update

Thanks for the kudos (blush!).

I got to try them tonight in totally different conditions - here's my update:

Night skiing, 27-29 deg f, very hard, very rutted snow/ice base with 2-8" of loose and chunky corn snow.

After skiing all week, I was sorta sore and tired tonight and had a heck of a time keeping my SL skis under control through the big piles of glop, so I switched to the Karmas hoping for an easier, more relaxed ride. I was astounded at the difference in stiffness between the 2 skis (and the P60 SL is a fairly soft race ski). The Karmas were way more mellow and handled the deepest piles of corn snow like they weren't even there. However, the only weakness I have found in theses skis so far reared its ugly head on the 'hardpack' in between. The harder the snow, the quicker they broke loose on edge, and when pushed, both the tips and tails tended to vibrate and flap. Several times on steeper terrain, I had the downhill ski just skid out from under me.

I wasn't surprised by what I experienced tonight given the ski's dimensions and intended purposes, but I'm enjoying discovering the limits and limitations of such a versatile ski. :smile:
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Angel Diva
Dang!
I GOTTA get mine from Don Orr this week so I can get on them
I'm hoping the 169 is not going to ski too short for me.
Where did you mount them?(or did I miss it in the review?) Sometimes I don't pay attention.

Are you skiing this weekend or will the holiday keep you too busy?
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I beleive Joe mounted them at the ski's mid-point, knowing that I'd rarely see deep-deep snow and chances are I won't be in the park either (last time I did a rail slide I hooked and edge and did a spread-eagle belly flop off the end :o ). Given your weight, I bet the 169 will be perfect for you.

2 more days of 40+ deg slop-and-glop only heightened my appreciation of their versatility and stability. They turn the nastiest stuff into "hero snow" :D - while I watched lots of others struggle, I just put a big grin on my face and let the skis go to work.

Again, I say WOW!!!!

I'm off work until Tuesday, so with the exception of tomorrow, I'll be out every day (today was day 11 out of 13 :p )
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Angel Diva
I had mine centered for the same reason
I don't see me skiing backwards much nor do I think I'm gonig to be in the deep powder but maybe once a year.

I really wish you hadn't posted this. Now I am having trouble waiting to get on mine.
Dang!
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Maybe we can be "the Karma gals" on Saturday? :D
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Today we were the "Karma Kids"!

Snowhot finally got on hers...now I'm patiently waiting for her review of the 169cm.

Once again, the Karmas made the gloppy snow just disappear, at least until I got tired and lazy :( . They once again tossed me to the ground like I was chopped liver :o ! I'm thinking that little episode was much to the surprise of SnowHot since I almost took her out with me!!:D (Bad, bad Karma!)
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Angel Diva
volklgirl said:
Snowhot finally got on hers...now I'm patiently waiting for her review of the 169cm.

Once again, the Karmas made the gloppy snow just disappear, at least until I got tired and lazy :( . They once again tossed me to the ground like I was chopped liver :o ! I'm thinking that little episode was much to the surprise of SnowHot since I almost took her out with me!!:D (Bad, bad Karma!)
Ha!
and I thought my mis-que is what caused you to bauble.
At any rate, we'd both been hard at it for several hours and it was time to give our legs a rest.

Kris is so right!
These skis didn't want to go around the stuff in their way. They wanted to head straight for it and blow it to bits.
I found a different type of skiing on these, and yet it was exhilarating! I'll be skiing these the next chance I get!

Again, my Kryptons were a great boot to allow me the flex necessary without too much flex to drive the Karma to exhaustion!
See you on the slopes soon Kris!
 

Lori_K

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So after a season of skiing on Karmas, what's the consensus from you ladies?

Based on these reports, and some over at Epic, my husband and I really wanted to try the Karmas. We are both Volkl fans, and thought this ski might fill the all-mountain gap between our Volkl groomers (my Attiva S5, and his 6-stars), and our Pocket Rockets.

Today was a nice spring day. 4" of fresh powder, on top of hardpack. Temps in the 20's in the morning, warming up to 40 or so by afternoon. Since it was the end of the season, we figured what the heck. Do a demo. So, I demo'd the Karma in a 161, and hubby Dave demo'd in a 177. (Same length as our groomer skis). Got some fresh tracks in the powder, ran down some groomers, hit a few bump runs and an easy tree run. I can only guess that the binding mounting was set up for park skiing (although the tech said they weren't), because I was skiing on my heels practically the whole time. Get too forward and those shovels would just grab and turn. Karmas seemed ok on the packed groomer runs, I could bend them up into a carve pretty well. On bump runs it was a disaster for me. The tips wouldn't glance off the top of a bump, they'd plow right into it like I hit a brick wall. My husband was really wanting to like the skis, too, but in the end we agreed that they just felt weird. Too much backseat driving. After an hour on the Karmas, we traded them in for Volkl Auras (163) for me and a set of Mantras (177) for the Dave. Went up and immediately did the same run we had just finished on the Karmas. A night and day difference, for both of us. Skiing was fun again, and we finished ripping up the mountain on the fatter skis.

I just don't understand what happened with the Karmas. What did we miss? They've gotten such rave reviews that there must have been something wrong with the ones we tested. I've really liked all the Volkl's that I've tried, but I didn't have any good Karma today, I guess. :(
 

pinto

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Lori_K said:
.... I can only guess that the binding mounting was set up for park skiing (although the tech said they weren't), because I was skiing on my heels practically the whole time. Get too forward and those shovels would just grab and turn. Karmas seemed ok on the packed groomer runs, I could bend them up into a carve pretty well. On bump runs it was a disaster for me. The tips wouldn't glance off the top of a bump, they'd plow right into it like I hit a brick wall. My husband was really wanting to like the skis, too, but in the end we agreed that they just felt weird. Too much backseat driving. ....
I just don't understand what happened with the Karmas. What did we miss? They've gotten such rave reviews that there must have been something wrong with the ones we tested. I've really liked all the Volkl's that I've tried, but I didn't have any good Karma today, I guess. :(

I had similar problems with my Queens -- which are basically the women's version of the Karma. The binding was mounted in the women's forward position, and I really felt like I was skiing them from my heels. In deep snow, it was all I could do to keep the tips from diving constantly.

I had the bindings moved back this season, and it made a huge difference.

So, I know the feeling. Obviously I can't say how the bindings on yours were set up, and the Queens would supposedly have the forward mounting position due to their being women's skis, but maybe it has something to do with it? I bet they were mounted too far up.
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Lori_K said:
So after a season of skiing on Karmas, what's the consensus from you ladies?
Still deeply, madly, truly in love with mine. They just rocked in the spring slush at the end of the year. I also managed to get them out in 6" and 18"+ of powder where they were just as fantastic. The only time I haven't been in love with them is after a rain-freeze cylce where the snow was bullet proof (even my race skis sucked on that), and the one time I tried to race on them :eek: . My poor 6* spent almost the entire winter in the shed or the car - why compromise when you actually have the awsome carvers and the best crud skis???;)

I can only guess that the binding mounting was set up for park skiing (although the tech said they weren't)... After an hour on the Karmas, we traded them in for Volkl Auras (163) for me and a set of Mantras (177) for the Dave. Went up and immediately did the same run we had just finished on the Karmas. A night and day difference, for both of us. Skiing was fun again, and we finished ripping up the mountain on the fatter skis.

I just don't understand what happened with the Karmas. What did we miss? They've gotten such rave reviews that there must have been something wrong with the ones we tested. I've really liked all the Volkl's that I've tried, but I didn't have any good Karma today, I guess. :(
Did you happen to get a chance to put the Karma and Aura/Mantra side-by-side to see where the bindings were mounted? I'm also thinking they were mounted in the more forward position. It's very sad that you didn't like them :( .
 

Lori_K

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Didn't think to put the Aura and Karma side by side to look at the binding location. I'll try to check that next weekend when we're out for closing (boo-hoo!) day.

After all that, we ended up buying the Mantra demo for the hubby, and got a screaming deal on a new Aura for me (40% off skis, 50% off bindings). I am weak when it comes to end of season ski sales... :o

The funny thing is, you can't find a Mantra locally to save your life. The only ones available for sale now are the demo models. But the Karmas-- they got bunches of them on the rack. (And they're 40% off, too...). I do see a few Karmas out on the slopes, so people must be liking them, but I see a whole lot more Mantras out there. Hmm. I'm just really confused as to why our experience was so much different.
 

Gloria

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
vokl girl

Did you get those off ebay? I think I was bidding against you, glad you like them, I ended up here looking for a review of them. :smile: I probably would have bid higher had I read this first they sound like much fun.
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Lori K,

Another thing to check on those Karmas are the edges. If the demos have been used in the park and not tuned recently, they'll probably ski like sh*t.

Gloria,
Yup, e-bay at the beginning of the season. They supposedly weren't usd in the park or pipe....yeah, right :rolleyes: . Still, a season of lovingly hand tuning them every week has cleaned up all but the ugliest edge dings (I've actually had to designate a left and right since one set of edges was junk).
 

Gloria

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
never even thought of it

volkl girl, The ones I was bidding on were recently, I guess they weren't the same pair. I never thought of rail sliding. We don't have alot of people who do that here. Except on deadfall. Do you think the Karmas are softer at all than some of the other Volkl's? If you skied the Aura how did they compare. I think that I am getting arthritis in a knee and am looking for something a little softer for other than hardpack and dust on crust days. I was able to ski the Aura in really excellent conditions along with the Phat Luv for a couple of days. The Aura was okay but the Phat was so much more lively and fun in the deep. My issue is that I have skied some of the other luv's on area and they just didn't suit me at all. I felt like I was going to break my neck on the hardpack. We have a pretty dangerous outrun out of our bowls and I think I would be terrified skiing the
Phat's on it. As a matter of fact, I don't see very many women at all skiing it here, even though it is the womens ski of choice at alot of areas.
 

volklgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Gloria,

I think the Karma is a quite a bit softer than most Volkls and the Aura should be even softer than the Karmas. The only time I have thought they were too soft was on really hard snow (frozen hard pack) and when I took them in the race course. They are the softest Volkls I own, yet they still have the classic Volkl 'pop'. When my knees got tired freeskiing on the race skis, I grabbed these and could continue skiing for the rest of the day.
 

Gloria

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That sounds like a good one for what I need. I will have to give it a try. The volkl pop is somewhat of an addiction I never quite feel as good on other skiis as I do on volkls but I really wish I could find a lighter ski that had a more stable feeling. I probably should try the Auras on area in a wider variety of conditions as well I may just find that I do like them.
 

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