Getting over fear of steep firm snow

[Saraski]

Hi! I ski a lot at Kirkwood and if anyone knows the area I've been having trouble this year at the entry to The Wall. For those that don't, it's a lift that only serves expert terrain. There's one entrance to the run that is "milder", either drop in sideways through a slight cornice with some firm moguls that I find preferable or they groom all the way to the top and have a very steep firm path that most people side slip down. The other entries are all far more corniced and require some air onto steep terrain. If you don't turn you end up in a very steep mogul field that can be icy for the next 30ish feet down. I keep finding myself being too scared to make that first turn, ending up in the mogul field, and having to psych myself back up to make that first turn back. I've skied a lot of steep terrain and if there's some give I have no trouble happily making my turns all the way down but if it's firm I just freak out. I want to stop freaking out.

Now you might ask, "why not just avoid this run? Or why not wait until it's softer?" And the answer to the first question is that I actually really like skiing the stuff underneath the drop in. There's usually good snow up there and some fun chutes. The second is that I genuinely cannot tell when it will get soft and once you're up there well...there's only one way down. I try to wait until later in the day, see that it's been in the sun a while, other top of the mountain lifts are soft...and then I'll go up the wall and its boilerplate. But clearly it's not because other people are able to make turns, I'm just freaking out. I did fall on the wall earlier this year, when the normal entrance wasn't open so I tried another way and double ejected. I went for a very long slide and tweaked my shoulder a bit. I think I was less afraid of it before this event.

 

[santacruz skier]

That entrance is nasty.... haven't skied Kirkwood in a couple of years but IIRC, there is a steep narrow traverse to access and a couple of steep bumps and then the snow is quite nice. I don't recall The Wall ever being groomed, but I can imagine it's very slick...

Agree, once you're at the top of Chair 10, you're there and need to find a good way down.

Think spring conditions on The Wall would be very iffy as that slick "normal" traverse in probably never softens up.

 

[Saraski]

It seems like it's been groomed every time I've been up there since early March, when the entrance wasn't open and I had to go in off the side (too much snow?).

I don't know if my choice of skis maybe doesn't help, I'm normally on volkl secret 96's which, while sized down a bit (156 and I'm 5'4), are not known for being maneuverable? I take these in every other kind of condition though and they turn where and when I want them to.

 

[santacruz skier]

Doubt it’s the choice of skis. The entrance is really tricky in good conditions.

 

[MissySki]

It seems like it's been groomed every time I've been up there since early March, when the entrance wasn't open and I had to go in off the side (too much snow?).

I don't know if my choice of skis maybe doesn't help, I'm normally on volkl secret 96's which, while sized down a bit (156 and I'm 5'4), are not known for being maneuverable? I take these in every other kind of condition though and they turn where and when I want them to.

Are your edges nice and sharp? Just curious if you trust your edges to hold you on the firm snow or not. I know some who ski in other areas of the country don’t feel as much need for maintaining very sharp edges as much as we do in the East. Not sure if that is the case where you are or not. I ski in New England, so definitely lots of very firm icy and boilerplate conditions at times. I’m a lot more confident when I know and feel my edges are super sharp and up to the task than if my edges are dull and in need of a tune on any given day. Ski choice does make a difference in the very icy cases, but your being on a Volkl would usually be a fine choice if edges are sharp as they’ll have great edge grip. There is also committing to the turn, making sure when you drop in that you are forward, facing down the fall line, and really ready for the turn coming at you. I have a tendency of getting slightly back when I’m nervous and boy does just a little bit of that make a big difference for not feeling quite ready for a quick turn in a tricky entry point. Really ensuring my feet are under me and ready to go wherever I need them to is key.. easier said than done sometimes of course.

 

[Saraski]

Yeah, I do doubt it is the skis. They haven't given me any reason to distrust them. They've always done what I asked them to do and lo the edges held just fine as I side slipped the first part of the entry (everyone was doing this) (also not actually side slipping the thing where you slide sideways downhill but you're digging in with your edges - I just forgot the name).

I think it's always that first turn that's hardest for me and after that I'm okay, and starting a turn from a standstill is always harder than carrying momentum into the turn. So I'd probably be best off if I could will myself into a turn from the start before I found myself perched on top of an icy mogul staring down at a bunch more.

 

[Saraski]

I did feel bad though, as I was perched on that mogul yesterday there were two kids with their edges dug in on the top of the entry who were just, stuck. Their dad was below them trying to encourage them to skid down but they were scared stiff. I myself eventually just said "#### it, haters gonna hate" and did a sit turn just to get myself moving again.

 

[santacruz skier]

Also, that top part of the Wall is truly a double black and not easy no matter which way you go . I've seen so many people fall and can't believe they're now grooming from the top.... Most skiers side slip into the run, but one wrong move and you're down. A long ways.

 

[santacruz skier]

I was in a clinic with Eva Twardokens (olympian) about 20 years ago. Conditions were very good on the Wall, but we had to ski with loose boots and not use our poles.

 

[Saraski]

Oh yeah as I was riding up the lift yesterday there was a bunch of ski patrol at the part where it kind of levels out getting a guy into a sled and the guy did not look good. There might've even been blood on the snow by his head. I hope he's okay but like...yeah if you make a wrong move on the hard snow you're going for a long ride. Maybe it is just scary terrain and all the others who fearlessly start turning haven't realized that yet.

 

[santacruz skier]

Well the Expert Only sign and the skull and crossbones at the bottom of the lift is very visible!

 

[Saraski]

I mean often it's fine! The more important warning sign is "hard snow conditions/long slides possible". The trouble is you can't ask lifties for more details: one time I was going up with my friend and I expressed nerves and the lifty said I shouldn't be on the lift but that time the conditions were fine at the entry.

 

[ouncible]

This last weekend was one of the nastiest choices of Wall entrance I've seen in a while, but other than March 15 2023, it's never been easy for me. I celebrate every single time I 'just' make the turn rather than wibbling my way onto the run, and I still often just edge over the first 10-15 feet.

For what it's worth, there are two and a half things that help me make my first Wall turn.

The biggest help, for me, is to get myself edging down, then as soon as I can, switch to edging diagonally forward. That feels relatively "safe" and controlled, but it also gets my weight and focus where they need to be to turn. Pretty soon, my brain starts to remember that it's just a tiny shift to turn, and that this turn is not really any worse than some of the turns I made on my warmups. Failing that, at least I'm moving, and after I've worked my way down the slope, my next run will be easier for knowing the current run conditions.

The second game I play is to reframe the slope in front of me as a chute. I will recast awkward tracks is minor moguls, maybe move "down hill" to one side or add a curve to the imaginary gully to avoid some obstacle that's eating my brain. Basically, anything to help me ignore all the places I don't want to ski in favor of just skiing the line in front of me for a while.

Finally, something which I suspect you've already tried, is doing the component parts of that entrance in your warmup runs. Personally, I have had good luck seeking out the crustiest, nastiest line into Snow Snake, and making sure to take a few turns down the icier side of the lower gully where it's smooth and a little steep. It's low consequence if I splat, so I'm relaxed enough to just do it, but it also reminds my brain that I _can_ hold a turn on a skittery slope or ride out a turn over all kinds of chopped up mess before I go up 10.

If you do figure out a surefire way to wrestle your brain though, please, please, please let me know!

 

[Saraski]

Thanks for validating me I do feel like a wimp next to some of the people I ski with :'D

The leaning forward while edging seems like a good idea, I feel like it might trick my brain into thinking "ah #### gotta turn!" Also snow snake is an interesting idea, I've never really tried going down the edges in the morning. Usually I do it in the afternoon when the light is flat because I always forget about it until 2pm D:

My typical warmup is to go off chair 6 a few times, because chair 6 is normally pretty firm and steep, but somehow I've done that enough times that my brain simply turns off and it doesn't register as difficult anymore. Maybe the secret is to just do it enough times that you no longer thing about it.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

This is something I have struggled with and have worked a lot on this year. Still don't love it but there's a few things I do. Make sure I have sharp edges on skis and feel comfortable on what they can handle. I usually diagonal side slip in to cut off the steep lip/entrance/headwall and if it's still steep after that I'll do a combination of side, pivot slipping and falling leaf to get down any parts that make me nervous.

I'll often times avoid really steep things if it's super icy/hardpacked but the above things are tools I use in the event I have a steep icy trail in my path.

These are a few things that have been taught to me in PSIA and other clinics I've taken.

 

[AJM]

Ooof it sounds a little like a run we have at our local hill. I think I posted a similar "please help me navigate that first turn!" request a couple of years ago.
I'm with @Trailside Trixie on this one in that I pull a combination of moves ie side slip, pivot slip etc whatever it takes to get me through the first really steep and often icy section. When I'm feeling comfortable I then make a really strong pole plant and go for it! I also find it easier if I have a bit of momentum behind me from the abovementioned side slips etc rather than starting from a static position.
Once I have that first turn in the bag I'm away but trust me I know how it feels and often my heart is in my mouth

 

[Trailside Trixie]

Ooof it sounds a little like a run we have at our local hill. I think I posted a similar "please help me navigate that first turn!" request a couple of years ago.
I'm with @Trailside Trixie on this one in that I pull a combination of moves ie side slip, pivot slip etc whatever it takes to get me through the first really steep and often icy section. When I'm feeling comfortable I then make a really strong pole plant and go for it! I also find it easier if I have a bit of momentum behind me from the abovementioned side slips etc rather than starting from a static position.
Once I have that first turn in the bag I'm away but trust me I know how it feels and often my heart is in my mouth

The best tip someone gave me when stuck/afraid to turn on a steep or otherwise challenging conditions is to start sideslipping and then turn. It's easier to go into your next turn if you are in motion rather than trying to do it from a standstill.

 

[AJM]

It's easier to go into your next turn if you are in motion rather than trying to do it from a standstill

It absolutely is

 

[scandium]

It absolutely is

But also 1000X more scary!

 

[tahoeaussie]

Haven’t skied there but here’s some tips for scary entrances…
If the first turn in is not your favorite side to turn, do a snowplough or wedge turn. Same if it’s just scary . You need momentum and holding back doesn’t help.
Sideslipping also works well.

creating some reframes in your head. I had a student say you’re mine to some steep bumps on every turn. It was amazing .

you could map out the turns and create a plan, tell a friend if you are with someone and then “demo” it

learn how to do hop turns as well, more of an expert move but when it’s in your bag of tricks it’s also super handy

a lot of the time it’s our head trash that gets us static.