Gas Pedal height vs. terrain pitch?

[edelweissmaedl]

I fall into the bucket with other small bsl divas of having a hard time getting boots dialed in. I paid a visit to a well regarded bootfitter last weekend and I had some adjustments make inside my boots and he gave me “homework” of trying gas pedals in my toe bindings. I went out yesterday to try them and noticed some nearly instant improvement, but also noticed I seemed to like them better on “flatter” terrain vs when I got on a steeper slope. Conditions were terrible so we didn’t spend much time on the steeper slope and I definitely need to go out again. I plan to make a second set of gas pedals at about half the height of this set to compare.

I am curious if other Divas have noticed similar and if so how did you choose a height? Try to match what felt best to most often type of terrain skied?

 

[Covie]

Oh that’s such an interesting thought. I’m a gas pedal user currently trying new boots/skis/bindings without them and I feel like I miss the pedal on steeps, but I totally understand why the pedals would take getting used to on steeper terrain where you might want to finish the turn further forward to skid the tails of the skis.
May I ask if your toe lift is also due to your femur length/hinge point? If only bsl is at play you might never like the lift on steeps.

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Oh that’s such an interesting thought. I’m a gas pedal user currently trying new boots/skis/bindings without them and I feel like I miss the pedal on steeps, but I totally understand why the pedals would take getting used to on steeper terrain where you might want to finish the turn further forward to skid the tails of the skis.
May I ask if your toe lift is also due to your femur length/hinge point? If only bsl is at play you might never like the lift on steeps.

Thanks for sharing your experience with gas pedals. I did hear back from the bootfitter and he did say less gas pedal on steeps. My gas pedals I just tried out get me to "flat" on the binding, but I definitely feel like I am sitting on my heels/tails more now. I plan to try another set of shims out to split the difference between the binding's ramp angle and aiming for flat/0.

The reason for me try them was my limited dorsiflexion and trying to get me more upright in boots deemed to now have too much forward lean for me. My knees are past my toes (the bootfitter that put me in the boots was aware that my knees were past my toes, but was willing to let that go a bit given the short bsl).

 

[Covie]

Ah, sounds like your set up may have been hard on the quads too?

Eager to hear if you like the thinner pedal.

 

[empogo]

Oh that’s such an interesting thought. I’m a gas pedal user currently trying new boots/skis/bindings without them and I feel like I miss the pedal on steeps, but I totally understand why the pedals would take getting used to on steeper terrain where you might want to finish the turn further forward to skid the tails of the skis.
May I ask if your toe lift is also due to your femur length/hinge point? If only bsl is at play you might never like the lift on steeps.

Ooh can you expand on the femur length comment? I’m currently experimenting with this and femur length is something I’ve wondered about.

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Ooh can you expand on the femur length comment? I’m currently experimenting with this and femur length is something I’ve wondered about.

@Covie Also curious about the femur length for curiosity/learning. Mine has to do with limited dorsiflexion and lean on my current boot.

 

[Covie]

Ooh can you expand on the femur length comment? I’m currently experimenting with this and femur length is something I’ve wondered about.

Ok so I was told that I was “hanging on my boots” and “crushing the boot” because I was too far forward. I have long legs and a short torso, and I have good dorsiflexion if you count the knee to wall test, and have heard that my long legs create more leverage over the boot than “average”. This combined with an aggressive boot with too much forward lean meant I was severely restricted in lower body movement. I was unable to get high edge angles/carve a turn in this position. Kinda like how high heels affect the way you can move your foot vs bare feet. The gas pedals allowed me to have a more centered stance with full range of motion and I could finally carve a turn woohoo! Forward lean is awesome for a split second when I initiate a turn but being locked in a forward leg position meant my tails would lose contact with the snow and skid the turn.
Interestingly, this year I got Carv sensors for my boots from my hubby and I can really see the difference binding delta/ramp angle make on my skiing. Other huge PSA i have is on cuff adjustment! Out of the box cuff = intermediate skiing, adjusted to match my lower leg angle = advanced/expert (according to carve rating my fore aft balance, pressure/smoothness, edge angle/turn initiation/edge similarity etc on every turn). Seems like us gas pedalers are somewhat rare, but it makes a massive difference to our skiing. I am so thankful a ski instructor pointed this out and took me to a boot fitter for an assessment.

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Thanks for taking the time to share all this. Some of what you are describing sounds very similar to my issues. I made two more sets of gas pedals to try out last weekend (thinner than the first set). Right now liking the medium set best.

Being more upright on steeper terrain is taking some adjustment. I only have two more weekends before a weeklong ski trip. I am noticing improved turning. Struggling to commit to a thickness for real shims. Thinking about skiing the trip in the temporary shims or layering tape for a more streamlined temporary shim for the trip. Any chance you would have that on that idea @Covie ?

 

[contesstant]

Thanks for sharing your experience with gas pedals. I did hear back from the bootfitter and he did say less gas pedal on steeps. My gas pedals I just tried out get me to "flat" on the binding, but I definitely feel like I am sitting on my heels/tails more now. I plan to try another set of shims out to split the difference between the binding's ramp angle and aiming for flat/0.

The reason for me try them was my limited dorsiflexion and trying to get me more upright in boots deemed to now have too much forward lean for me. My knees are past my toes (the bootfitter that put me in the boots was aware that my knees were past my toes, but was willing to let that go a bit given the short bsl).

I don’t think you should be addressing lack of dorsiflexion outside the boot. In fact, my understanding is that lack of dorsiflexion requires opening the ankle, like with a heel lift inside the boot.

Who did you see?

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Greg Hoffman. The gas pedals are to play with mitigating the excessive forward lean in the current boots. I have heel lifts. He wanted to add to the heel lifts and build up the inside edges of the heel to help get my knees better aligned. That caused pressure on the outside pinky toe area, so he removed the extra lifts and just left the side wedges in. He believes that I am being pushed forward by the exaggerated plastic curve after the heel pocket. (Drawing to indicate inside of boot). He had a Technica Mach 1 pro W in my size and had me slip it on just to better see a more upright stance. The plastic doesn’t bulge as much in the Achilles area inside those boots. Picture of me from the side from a previous season to show stance. I would guess gas pedals might no longer be in consideration if I switch boots, but not looking to do that this season.

 

[contesstant]

Greg Hoffman. The gas pedals are to play with mitigating the excessive forward lean in the current boots. I have heel lifts. He wanted to add to the heel lifts and build up the inside edges of the heel to help get my knees better aligned. That caused pressure on the outside pinky toe area, so he removed the extra lifts and just left the side wedges in. He believes that I am being pushed forward by the exaggerated plastic curve after the heel pocket. (Drawing to indicate inside of boot). He had a Technica Mach 1 pro W in my size and had me slip it on just to better see a more upright stance. The plastic doesn’t bulge as much in the Achilles area inside those boots. Picture of me from the side from a previous season to show stance. I would guess gas pedals might no longer be in consideration if I switch boots, but not looking to do that this season.

View attachment 20278
View attachment 20277

Oh, he’s excellent AND I’ve had the same thing done in the past—heel lift inside, toe lift outside. That makes sense now. Sometimes it really does take a lot of experimenting and my one piece of advice is to ski the changes for several runs or more if you can.

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Oh, he’s excellent AND I’ve had the same thing done in the past—heel lift inside, toe lift outside. That makes sense now. Sometimes it really does take a lot of experimenting and my one piece of advice is to ski the changes for several runs or more if you can.

Thanks @contesstant. Any thoughts from you on sticking with temp gas pedals vs. permanent? ie. I want to ski them long enough to be sure...but PA snow this year sucks and I am running out of time! I had read the temp ones could affect binding release, but I'm feeling less freaked out about that (and driving 4 hrs back to WV or trying to find someone to shim them here on short notice is getting dicey).

 

[contesstant]

Thanks @contesstant. Any thoughts from you on sticking with temp gas pedals vs. permanent? ie. I want to ski them long enough to be sure...but PA snow this year sucks and I am running out of time! I had read the temp ones could affect binding release, but I'm feeling less freaked out about that (and driving 4 hrs back to WV or trying to find someone to shim them here on short notice is getting dicey).

Temp ones definitely affect binding release, but getting it permanently changed is … permanent. You’ll notice it most on steeps. Can you ski some good steep runs?

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Temp ones definitely affect binding release, but getting it permanently changed is … permanent. You’ll notice it most on steeps. Can you ski some good steep runs?

Snow has been so bad here the steepest runs still aren’t open. I got in some steeper runs last weekend, but ideally I wanted to try one more gas pedal iteration (slightly lower). I could go with the thickness I skied the most last weekend, but like you said it’s quite permanent feeling to decide.

 

[contesstant]

Have you tried a tongue shim to stand you up more? You can even use a spoiler that is intended to go on the back of the cuff liner and put it in the front, snugged down by the Booster.

 

[edelweissmaedl]

Have you tried a tongue shim to stand you up more? You can even use a spoiler that is intended to go on the back of the cuff liner and put it in the front, snugged down by the Booster.

I've been thinking about that. Even though I have a booster strap I had been wearing it over the shell the past 2 years (can't really recall why anymore, must have just been more comfortable?). I've been wearing it under to see if that would also get me more upright which it does, but it also seems to push my toes forward a little, the gas pedal seems to resolve that issue and keep me in the heel pocket better. Since I hadn't been using my booster as intended anyway I was trying to think of what I could add to the tongue (moleskin strips had come to mind). I don't have spoiler pieces or other accessories on hand.

 

[contesstant]

I've been thinking about that. Even though I have a booster strap I had been wearing it over the shell the past 2 years (can't really recall why anymore, must have just been more comfortable?). I've been wearing it under to see if that would also get me more upright which it does, but it also seems to push my toes forward a little, the gas pedal seems to resolve that issue and keep me in the heel pocket better. Since I hadn't been using my booster as intended anyway I was trying to think of what I could add to the tongue (moleskin strips had come to mind). I don't have spoiler pieces or other accessories on hand.

A trail map could work. Your boots didn't come with spoilers?

 

[edelweissmaedl]

At the place I got them from boots all their boots are on these circular racks so the boxes are gone. I suspect all the parts end up in the back room where they do the boot work. Greg wanted to know if I had the cuff adjustment cross pieces/allen wrench tool and I don't have those either.

 

[Covie]

I see your photo in the boots, like my old situation I imagine you will need permanent gas pedals or new boots. There is another option for your weeklong trip though! You can rent boots and demo skis. A more upright boot can help you, or if uncomfortable with that even a demo ski could help since the toe piece on demo bindings are more even to the heel (delta), there is even a marker demo binding with negative delta meaning the toe is higher than the heel piece. I was having boot issues and rented some on a ski trip and it turned out great. They were beautiful brand new heated K2s. I popped my footbed in and hit the slopes!
Edited: typos

 

[edelweissmaedl]

@Covie renting boots is not an option (small, narrow foot, heel lifts, custom footbeds, boot heaters, etc).

I have thought about renting skies and am aware the marker demos having the negative ramp angle. My first gas pedals I made put me at just under flat vs. the marker demo bindings have a 1.5mm negative delta. I was definitely hopeful the marker demo bindings might make for an easy rental fix for this year. I thought I had too much pressure on the tails with that set and I think I am going to end up at about a +1mm ramp situation. I have thought about packing calipers in my suitcase (imagine me at the ski shop measuring demo ski bindings!! crazy ski lady )

Even though I have too much lean, I keep trying to remind myself that I've had these boots longer than any others and I believe made the most skiing progress in them as well (they got me through a Taos ski week and 2 weeks in Austria last year) so I'll survive one way or another. It's just hard once you realize you have an issue.