Fullface Helmets

[oragejuice]

Are they really worth the money? I'm thinking about getting one on sale, for trees and such next year, because I'm starting to ski a bit more crazy.

Anyone own one? Looking at the Marker Ripper and Giro Remedy S.

 

[sibhusky]

Since they don't allow racers to use them because of fear of the chin thing digging into the snow during a fall AND BREAKING YOUR NECK instead of the chin piece, I wouldn't get one. I figure with my goggles and face mask, I won't get seriously injured.

When I hit the tree last year I was really BRUISED all over my face -- they wouldn't let me see myself in the mirror, but I understand I was a wallpaper-like mishmash of navy and burgundy. That was probably because I had sunglasses on under my goggles and they had metal frames on them. I think I probably put my arms up to protect my face, which is how my wrists got so smashed to bits. But, nothing broken on my head and neck not broken. My face looks as good as it ever did now, the bruises were gone by the time I could see myself in a mirror. This was with a good bit of speed, too, and ricocheting off a tree and over a pile of logs.

Personally, I've never gone fast enough in the trees to produce the kind of accident like I had going off the side of a green trail. So, not sure that starting tree skiing would justify the risk of one of those helmets with the integrated face guard.

 

[Robyn]

Yeah, I wouldn't go full face for the same reasons Sib mentioned. The only FIS racing with full face helmets is slalom and that is actually a detatchable piece, not a true full face helmet.

 

[altagirl]

That's really weird - so why is a full face helmet the norm in so many other sports?

I've never been inclined to use one for skiing just because I've never really come close to hitting my face on anything (knock on wood), but I use them all the time mountain biking, on motorcycles, etc.

And I know plenty of guys who ski in full face helmets. I just don't huck off of anything or do backflips and such where that potential risk is the same.

 

[sibhusky]

Well, figure if you're on a motorcycle, the guard is NOT gonna dig into the concrete, whereas snow it WILL. And there's lots of guys who just wear things because it looks cool, not because they've thought it out. I mean why else are male snowboarders skiing down the slopes with their pants hanging below their butt cheeks? I don't think there's any value with cool cheeks, but they ride that way anyway because they apparently like the look.

 

[oragejuice]

And I know plenty of guys who ski in full face helmets. I just don't huck off of anything or do backflips and such where that potential risk is the same.

So do I. I'm a whitewater kayaker, and breaking your neck is also an issue with the full face helmets, but I know guys who swear by them as well. I see quite a few pros skiing with full face helmets, and I feel like it would be a safer route, if I move to a resort where I will be skiing alot of glades. I don't fall much, and I'm not worried about that, so much as hitting branches while going fast... Obviously, falls happen, but... hmmm.

Sib- I believe that a hard surface is going to present alot more risk than snow does. If you hit a hard surface with your chin guard, whiplash effect can take place, where the cement slams your head backwards, because there is no shock absorption in the pavement. Does that make sense? The only problems in whitewater kayaking with full-face helmets is such, where the chin guard gets slammed into a rock underwater, and the wearers head is thrown backwards, unnaturally. Blegh.

 

[altagirl]

It's not like not wearing a full face is going to prevent you from breaking your neck if you hit your head against something just right.

I just can't imagine that hitting the snow in a full face is worse for your neck than hitting dirt or asphalt at high speed when wearing a full face helmet. And people certainly wear full face helmets while snowmobiling... I've never heard of that not being recommended.


I know some people don't like full face helmets for skiing because they tend to fog your goggles more. And it might be overkill for most people - I think even while skiing trees, I'm more likely to hit the side or top of my head than my face. When I'm DH mountain biking or riding my moto, there are more pointy rocks around and then I wear a full face helmet, because I think there's more of a realistic risk of knocking my teeth out, breaking an orbital, etc. Looking at the number of scratches and dents in my various full face helmets over the years, I can tell you that you certainly don't just snap your neck when you smack a fullface into the ground. Maybe I am running a slightly higher risk of neck injury, but at the same time, I KNOW I've avoided major damage to my face.


And I don't think all the guys skiing in full faces are doing it just for appearance's sake. A friend of mine only got his after breaking his orbital when his knee smashed into his face after landing a 40' huck. I think at that point, a full face is warranted.

 

[SnowHot]

Depends on your application. I personally, don't like a full face helmet. My husband the dirt biker, won't go without one.

 

[Xymenah]

All helmets are designed specifically for the sport they are used for due to studies on how falls happen in those particular sports and which ones are the most common and so many other factors... For these reasons I have a different helmet for my bicycle, motorbike, horse riding and now skiing. I have noticed that most ski helmets are not full faced and obviously they were designed that way for a reason I wouldnt go with anything other then the norm for a sport helmet wise as it could have serious complications and not protect you properly in a fall.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

I had an in depth conversation with my neurologist about this very thing. Not recomended by him for skiing. The impact can be much more dangerous and life threatening

If you're skiing a little more risky, just make sure your speed is in control and that you can ALWAYS control your skis!

 

[altagirl]

All helmets are designed specifically for the sport they are used for due to studies on how falls happen in those particular sports and which ones are the most common and so many other factors... For these reasons I have a different helmet for my bicycle, motorbike, horse riding and now skiing. I have noticed that most ski helmets are not full faced and obviously they were designed that way for a reason I wouldnt go with anything other then the norm for a sport helmet wise as it could have serious complications and not protect you properly in a fall.

There are full face helmets sold specifically for skiing though.

 

[Xymenah]

interesting... but why would they make them if everyone claims they are dangerous... that doesnt really make a lot of sense.... You still see more non fullface helmets for skiing then you do fullface ones which means it is more normal and mainstream for it to not be fullface and I would stick with the normal.

 

[altagirl]

interesting... but why would they make them if everyone claims they are dangerous... that doesnt really make a lot of sense.... You still see more non fullface helmets for skiing then you do fullface ones which means it is more normal and mainstream for it to not be fullface and I would stick with the normal.

It's also more normal and mainstream to not be jumping off of cliffs...

I'm not suggesting they're for everyone. I don't wear one skiing. But I can see some situations where they're appropriate.

 

[SnowHot]

interesting... but why would they make them if everyone claims they are dangerous... that doesnt really make a lot of sense.... You still see more non fullface helmets for skiing then you do fullface ones which means it is more normal and mainstream for it to not be fullface and I would stick with the normal.

Its all about application, as Altagirl has so eloquently explained.
Racing,
Recreational skiing
Big Mountain Competition
Mogul comp
Park comp.............the list could go on and on.
The only area you see a full face helmet is in Big Mt Competition.

Its all about application.

 

[altagirl]

I had an in depth conversation with my neurologist about this very thing. Not recomended by him for skiing. The impact can be much more dangerous and life threatening

If you're skiing a little more risky, just make sure your speed is in control and that you can ALWAYS control your skis!

I'd just suspect that if you told your neurologist that you were doing backflips off of cliffs into powder where there were potentially rocks under the snow and you could land on your face, he might think the risks are a different story from what he's thinking you're doing skiing.

That's like when my ortho prescribed knee braces for me, he said to wear them skiing but not mountain biking. And I said, well, I think I'd want to wear them for DH mountain biking and he said, oh, you're not being hard on your knees on a mountain bike! Wearing the braces too much isn't good for your muscles. And I had to dig out a picture of someone jumping off some rocks into more rocks and all the armor we wear and explain what the sport was that I was talking about - not just cruising down a buffed out singletrack in spandex and he said "OH! Yeah, so wear them for that."

I suspect it's the same thing here. Yes, I'd agree most doctors educated on the topic would say "skiers don't need full face helmets, it can add more risk", but there would certainly be exceptions out there if they understood what some people are doing on skis.

 

[tradygirl]

Personally, I can't imagine ever wearing a fullface helmet skiing (this coming from girl who just got stitches out of her face after eating a rock mt biking)

BUT...

I'm not skiing terrain that makes me worry about high impact of hard objects, such as rocks, to my face. Granted, I've hit the top and sides of my head many times on trees, etc, but I've never been afraid of hitting my face. I agree that the skiing fullface should probably be reserved for the hucksters to protect jaws, noses, and orbital bones.

Does anyone have actual data or a true story about someone breaking their neck due to wearing a fullface skiing? I mean, skiercross and boardercross guys wear them all of the time. I guess it could just be the tradeoff between neck breakage and elbow-to-the-nose factor.

 

[oragejuice]

Does anyone have actual data or a true story about someone breaking their neck due to wearing a fullface skiing? I mean, skiercross and boardercross guys wear them all of the time. I guess it could just be the tradeoff between neck breakage and elbow-to-the-nose factor.

I searched for topics on Epic, and other boards, about this, there is a thread similar to mine on Epic, where the guys could not come up with a single documented instance where someone broke their neck due to a fullface. Sounds like its just speculation.... and the good seems to outweigh the bad.

Here's one of the threads I found, on another board...

https://bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19667

I'm 19 years old, and I can't see a limit in what I will ski/huck in my life, it's a scary thought. I fully understand those skiiers who are perfectly comfortable with not skiing huge lines, I respect you all the more for knowing your limit and sticking to it, you're smart. But I, unfortunately, seriously envy the skiing ability that gets people into Warren Millers movies, hucking 100 foot cliffs, 1st decents and the like. The death of Wallace Westfelt this week is a reminder that I need to be cautious, no matter where I am, or how hard I am skiing. Hell, I may never huck anything really big, but I guess I feel like a fullface might be a tiny bit more safe than your average ski helmet, expecially when I have no idea how hard I might ski on any given day. There are days where I ski super cautious, and don't feel the need to push my limits, but then there are the days where I drop off the side of a ridge without thinking, simply because I know that if I drop off the side, there is no getting out of it, and a fullface helmet seems awful nice when you have branches in your face or knees near your chin.

That's my two cents, to my own question...

Sincere apologies if I stomped on any toes with this, its one of those days where I can't keep my opinion to myself...