Taryn
Certified Ski Diva
I hockey stop to stop, and I usually do longer turns to slow down.
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From Low Intermediate to Confident Intermediate: Tips and Resources
- Thread starter Elena_Ski
- Start date
Taryn
Certified Ski Diva
@Trailside Trixie What is your technique on going slower on steeper pitches?
@Taryn shorter turns will slow you down more. The longer a turn is, the more time we spend going downhill and accelerating. Playing around with the shape more than the size can help. I find that really finishing a turn, aka making a full C shape in a shorter arc rather that a big Z shape across the whole hill will help scrub speed at the end of each turn. Many short turns will give me more opportunities to scrub speed. This is definitely oversimplifying it for the sake of this thread. A great example in real life is the competitive sport of alpine ski racing. Slalom skiing has the most gates, as in turns, and is the slowest, while downhill is the fastest and has almost no turns across the slope. Friction against the snow is another major speed control tactic and can be used for all size turns, versus a carved turned that has very little ski to snow friction and thus does little for speed reduction.
As for the skis, my personal experienced is more nuanced. I can make most skis work, but some skis are not right for me, or for the conditions, or right period, which I learned when I broke my pelvis after teaching full time for 22 years! Even novice skiers can often feel is something is not quite right with a given pair for them. As millimeters matter so much in the sport, I have found that going and trying a different pair or two or three for even a run or two on the easiest green can make a world of difference and people with only an hour or two of liftetime ski experience can notice these differences right away. Of course the same goes for boots and that is usually where the problems start, but that can of worms is so much harder to open and then fix.
As for the skis, my personal experienced is more nuanced. I can make most skis work, but some skis are not right for me, or for the conditions, or right period, which I learned when I broke my pelvis after teaching full time for 22 years! Even novice skiers can often feel is something is not quite right with a given pair for them. As millimeters matter so much in the sport, I have found that going and trying a different pair or two or three for even a run or two on the easiest green can make a world of difference and people with only an hour or two of liftetime ski experience can notice these differences right away. Of course the same goes for boots and that is usually where the problems start, but that can of worms is so much harder to open and then fix.
Taryn
Certified Ski Diva
@snoWYmonkey Interesting! I will try shorter turns to scrub the speed then. There was a point in time last season when I felt like I was doing something that felt like "mini hockey stops" but I didn't fully stop, I just felt like I was controlling my speed better. I will say that it was a bit tiring on my legs though.
I do have an 8-week clinic for women coming up in January so I am hoping to improve a lot with this issue there!
I do have an 8-week clinic for women coming up in January so I am hoping to improve a lot with this issue there!
@Taryn : FYI, @brooksnow is an instructor in the northeast and @snoWYmonkey is an instructor in the west.
A side effect of starting lessons at a small hill in northern VA is that I learned how to practice fundamental skills on limited terrain. Only takes 2-3 minutes to finish a run on the blues that existed a decade ago at Massanutten. I had bad habits. My instructor said it would take at least a season or two to get rid of the worst habits. Since I was only skiing 10-15 days those seasons, it was three years before when he'd tried to teach me the first few lessons really made complete sense.
Do you know how you learn a physical activity best? I'm visual but can also feel differences if an instructor asks the right questions. I can be analytical, but mostly that happens after I figure out how to do a drill correctly. I have friends who I've done lessons with who learn differently.
A multi-week clinic with the same group and instructor is great because it's possible to learn stuff that might not come up in solo lessons. Either because the student already has that skill so it's not emphasized, or because when the instructor does something different for another student, that turns out to "click" more.
I started setting up semi-private lessons with friends when we were meeting up at big mountains because I found that I learned more. Of course, also meant paying a bit less on a personal per hour basis. By the time I started that approach, I knew how to get recommendations for very experienced instructors. Usually PSIA Level 3, but sometimes Level 2 with 20+ years of teaching experience.
A side effect of starting lessons at a small hill in northern VA is that I learned how to practice fundamental skills on limited terrain. Only takes 2-3 minutes to finish a run on the blues that existed a decade ago at Massanutten. I had bad habits. My instructor said it would take at least a season or two to get rid of the worst habits. Since I was only skiing 10-15 days those seasons, it was three years before when he'd tried to teach me the first few lessons really made complete sense.
Do you know how you learn a physical activity best? I'm visual but can also feel differences if an instructor asks the right questions. I can be analytical, but mostly that happens after I figure out how to do a drill correctly. I have friends who I've done lessons with who learn differently.
A multi-week clinic with the same group and instructor is great because it's possible to learn stuff that might not come up in solo lessons. Either because the student already has that skill so it's not emphasized, or because when the instructor does something different for another student, that turns out to "click" more.
I started setting up semi-private lessons with friends when we were meeting up at big mountains because I found that I learned more. Of course, also meant paying a bit less on a personal per hour basis. By the time I started that approach, I knew how to get recommendations for very experienced instructors. Usually PSIA Level 3, but sometimes Level 2 with 20+ years of teaching experience.
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Making shorter turns, as advised upthread, to maintain slow speed (excellent advice) is not the same as making linked hockey stops that tax your leg strength. Therein lies the issue you will want to address in your upcoming lessons.
When you do a hockey stop to the left, do you turn your whole body to face left?
Or do you just turn your skis and legs to point left?
Same question on right hockey stops.
Your answer matters.
Taryn
Certified Ski Diva
@liquidfeet I point my whole body to the left when doing a hockey stop to the left, same with the right side. Although I am better at doing this on my left than my right 
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
OK, so that says a lot. Thanks for answering. I'm putting on my instructor hat now.@liquidfeet I point my whole body to the left when doing a hockey stop to the left, same with the right side. Although I am better at doing this on my left than my right
1. Hockey stops with upper body/low body separation.
@Taryn, are you at all familiar with a 60s dance called the Twist?
Here's a bit of nostalgia that probably predates your birth.
A hockey stop should involve you doing some version of the twist.
There's no need to get all anal about how to do it right at first.
The thing to do, instead of turning your whole body to get a hockey stop happening, is to turn your feet/skis/legs/thighs to the right while turning your upper body to the left.
Or you can think of this movement as twisting your feet while holding your torso/shoulders stable.
Or you can think of "Doing the Twist" with Chubby Checker.
Try that. Instructors will want you to twist your skis with a specific pivot point, but for starters just try to get your feet/skis to turn while getting your chest to point in the other direction.
The way ski instructors describe rotating the skis without rotating the torso is "upper body-lower body separation."
Once you can get your hockey stops working this way, they will be more precise and strong.
You'll feel this change and enjoy the effect.
2. Linking turns with upper body/lower body separation.
Once you get this separation starting in your hockey stops, start using it in your actual turns.
Your goal will be to turn your skis (and your legs attached to the skis) while NOT turning your torso and shoulders. When you can do this, your skis will grip better. It's magic. Work on turning them all the way, all the way, to the left, then all the way to the right, for your linked turns.
Being able to do this will enable you to more effectively make short turns with less drama and with less leg stress. You'll be able to complete your turns and slow down with each turn. Completed turns will enable you to stay slow on increasingly steepish pitches.
Learning to ski with separation is a process. It doesn't happen in one or two runs, nor in one or two days dedicated to getting it to work. Keep at it. The results will offer a huge benefit and you'll be able to feel the increase in control you'll have.
3. Skiing slow; controlling your speed with skill, and growing your confidence
Skiing with upper body/lower body separation will enable you to use short turns to stay slow on pitches where you now go too fast, feel out of control, and experience caution and fear.
......................
Linked hockey stops, with the whole body turning along with the skis, is going to tire your legs out and lead to unintended skidding downhill and unintended left-right travel after the skis rotate. There's not much control with that kind of hockey stop. Add separation to your hockey stops, and add separation to your linked turns, and your speed control will grow along with your confidence.
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Taryn
Certified Ski Diva
@liquidfeet thank you for the detailed help! I appreciate it a lot! I will try all of this out this weekend 
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In my detailed post above I used the Chubby Checker "Do the Twist" analogy of twisting the body. I did this because I was building on your use of linked hockey stops. That "twist" analogy can serve as a place-holder until you get into in-person lessons. Unfortunately it bypasses important movement details you will want to master as you learn to turn with separation. I'm sure your instructors will focus on these.
Here's a good video on what your instructors will probably teach you about skiing with separation.
Here's a good video on what your instructors will probably teach you about skiing with separation.
liquidfeet
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Warren Smith's good. He's been teaching forever, so knows what connects with skiers.
Emms
Certified Ski Diva
I can also put in a plug for Big Picture Skiing for people who struggle to find consistent instruction. It’s an amazing video library with stuff that will serve you well from intermediate to expert skiing. A lot of it is about teaching you to analyze and work on your own skiing. It has completely revolutionized my skiing and I can’t recommend it enough.
There’s a few videos on YouTube, this one I think is a perfect example of the philosophy where it’s like ok, just spend a day on pole planting with a few things and see how that changes your skiing
I think there’s like a free trial subscription so that you can check out the video library and see if you like it. 2 thumbs way up for me, best value in skiing instruction imo.
There’s a few videos on YouTube, this one I think is a perfect example of the philosophy where it’s like ok, just spend a day on pole planting with a few things and see how that changes your skiing
I think there’s like a free trial subscription so that you can check out the video library and see if you like it. 2 thumbs way up for me, best value in skiing instruction imo.
gourmetJo
Certified Ski Diva
I see you're in VT.....
Last year I did a weekend Women's Clinic at Magic Mountain, Blues to Blacks, that was very helpful. Five years ago I tore my ACL and since then, whenever I would pick up speed or would be on a black trail it would get into my head. I'm glad I took this course. Dr. Chrissy Semler a Certified Mental Sports Consultant, along with a ski instructor does the clinic and gave us great strategies to overcome the mental stressors. Everyone shared their story as to why they were there and the common thread was something mentally was holding us back. There were women in the course that were very good skiers who had an accident, or someone had collided with them or women that just starting get nervous when they were skiing. The trails we went down were actually quite icy and I remember thinking did I make a mistake taking this course. By the end I realized what was holding me back wasn't my skiing but what kept getting in my head about my knee. Chrissy gave us the mental tools to use when we are faced with the stress of feeling out of control on a trail.
Our ski instructor, Becky, was there with skiing tips and techniques. Together they made a good team. Becky took us down a mogul trail and through some challenging terrain that in the past I would have never thought I would enjoy doing.
I think technique is important but the mental work of staying relaxed plays a big role too.
Trailside Trixie
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I just dig my edges in and go slow. I dig those edges in, bend my knees, get over my skis and just take it slow. Think about driving a car down a steep road. You don't have to hit the gas at all because the pitch will just allow the car to go. What do you do to prevent this from happening. You put on the brakes and release it just enough to edge down the road very slowly. Same with going down a steep pitch. I'll go side to side, making turns and go across the hill a tiny bit more. With each turn I'm down the hill a tiny bit, cross the hill, turn, down a bit more, cross the hill, etc. If I'm truly spooked and don't want to turn I'll dig those edges in hard pivot slip my way down or side slip if I really don't want to turn ie if it's very icy.
I agree with what @gourmetJo said above. I took this course with Dr. Chrissy and Becky, this was my 3rd time taking their class and I can't tell you how much it's helped me. I'm taking Chrissy and Becky's class at Magic again at this year and I can't wait. I'm working with ski patrol this year but the mental demons are still there so it's an ever evolving process.
Skiing is mostly mental and conquering those demons in your head are priceless. Once your mind is set you might find your technique will fall right in line.
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Taryn
Certified Ski Diva
Well said! I also mountain bike and once and a while I have to get over the fears in my head. Can definitely say the same with skiing.
Taryn
Certified Ski Diva
This sounds awesome and sounds like something I would benefit from! I will look into this for future lessons. Thank you for sharing this!
gourmetJo
Certified Ski Diva
If you want any more info before you book it let me know.
jmfd84
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Peppermint and I are signed up for the Magic women's clinic this year. I skied there for the first time last season, on greens and blues. Most mountains, I'm a solid blue skier, but Magic is something else! I'm really excited for the mental aspect of the clinic.
