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Freeskier story - women and skiing

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
Now THAT'S an article.

I'd also add that I've heard quite a few women say that they ONLY ski with the guys, as if that's some sort of accomplishment and somehow vastly superior to skiing with women (yes, I've heard women say this). First of all, what makes that better? There are plenty of kick-ass women skiers out there. And second, isn't that sort of shooting yourself in the foot? It's demeaning not only to you, personally, but to all the women skiers out there. Just don't do it.
 
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echo_VT

Angel Diva
Glad someone said it but I’ll be surprised if all men-people actually listen.

I hate that people do that (and women who only ski with guys say so proudly). It’s an unfortunate self hating thing but it’s not like I haven’t seen it before ...
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Are they really saying it in a superior way, or just because they don't have any female friends to ski their terrain of choice with? It sounds so odd, I don't think I've really ever met anyone who had this preference overall. Most I've seen say things about skiing with all guys is also followed up by wishing they had female friends to add to their group as well.
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
Are they really saying it in a superior way, or just because they don't have any female friends to ski their terrain of choice with? It sounds so odd, I don't think I've really ever met anyone who had this preference overall. Most I've seen say things about skiing with all guys is also followed up by wishing they had female friends to add to their group as well.

Bless you for thinking it sounds odd. The women I've met who've said this have without question said it in an "I-rip-and-no-women-can-keep-up-with-me-so-I-only-ski-with-guys" sort of way.
 

Iwannaski

Angel Diva
The article is fantastic! My favorite quote:
“I am sure all the women earning 81-cents for every dollar their male counterparts earn would love to hear how we skiers somehow managed to close the wage gap, kill sexism and destroy the patriarchy that dominates the rest of the world.”

:rotf:

AND SHE WAS CLIMBING IN HER THIRD TRIMESTER.
I love us, we’re so bada$$.

And I love the men who can handle the bada$$ery.
When I asked my DH if he would be ok if I was making more than him (I have for most of our careers) he said, “as long as you spend some of it on me!” Gleefully.

Love him.

My feelings on the sexism and internalized misogyny of “I only ski with men” when it’s in THAT WAY?
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
Bless you for thinking it sounds odd. The women I've met who've said this have without question said it in an "I-rip-and-no-women-can-keep-up-with-me-so-I-only-ski-with-guys" sort of way.

Putting this into the mountain bike scene, which isn't really much different....

I'm not really mountain biking anymore but my husband still races DH and keeps me in the loop somewhat on what's going on. And it's one of those annoying things that he repeats that he hears in videos and articles - is "she's awesome - she only rides with guys". And it annoys me, but it's been difficult to win that argument, since lots of the top women do ride with the fastest guys (and probably don't have women as fast as they are locally), and it's difficult to argue that it doesn't help them.

I just found this in an article about Rachel Atherton, who is dominant in DH MTB racing: "All of which is evidence of Atherton’s indisputable talent. Yet as the little sister to Gee and Dan Atherton—mountain bike celebrities who helped catalyze a knobby-tire boom in Britain over the past decade—Atherton has had to fight for recognition. When a race commentator suggested that she’s so fast because she rides with her brothers, she posted an angry retort on Instagram. “Why not say the truth?? Because I work DAMN hard!!” she wrote. “I am, along with all the other women, athletes in our own right, bike riders because WE have the SKILLS, not because we blindly follow the boys with our eyes closed.” "

But while my husband was always STOKED when I could ski/ride something better/faster than him, or made more money than him, etc.... he hears those quotes and would INSIST that's the key to why the top women are so good. It's annoying. The commentators and writers can't stop saying it so the guys can't stop repeating it and on it goes.
 

ilovepugs

Angel Diva
And I love the men who can handle the bada$$ery.
When I asked my DH if he would be ok if I was making more than him (I have for most of our careers) he said, “as long as you spend some of it on me!” Gleefully.

Love him.

Reminds me of the Ali Wong part about earning more than her husband. “The only kind of man who doesn’t like it when his wife earns more is the kind of man who doesn’t like FREE MONEY.”
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
In fact - way back when... DH and I went to a downhill MTB racing clinic together that was coed. The same guy later offered a women's clinic and I signed up for that too and it was great riding with other female racers. And hilarious that the (male) instructor was frustrated by all the questions we asked. Normally - a downhill clinic might have one or two women in the group. In a group of men, most of us were rarely as vocal with our questions. Put us in a group of women? We had a million questions. WHY should we do it that way? He admitted he'd never expected that - in coed clinics, he said what to do and all the guys jump in and do it. In the women's clinic we had engineers asking about the physics of things and WHY something would work before we blindly trusted him. (Using more front brake on steep downhills was one of those topics, I believe, where we turned it into physics class...) I learned a lot because of all the great questions. And then went home and the guys I rode with all said that the women's clinic was a bad idea, even with THEIR FAVORITE COACH. Because I should be riding with the fast guys to improve, not riding with women. Which just made me more obstinate, I think, and I ended up taking Women's MTB clinics led by women, and then coaching for them.
 

newboots

Angel Diva
Bless you for thinking it sounds odd. The women I've met who've said this have without question said it in an "I-rip-and-no-women-can-keep-up-with-me-so-I-only-ski-with-guys" sort of way.

Yep. I hope it's starting to change, so maybe the younger folk (looking at you, @MissySki !) haven't heard this with the amount of macho swagger that Wendy and I hear in that statement?

ETA: It's time for @nopoleskier to chime in about now. Speaking of badassery. . .
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
Are they really saying it in a superior way, or just because they don't have any female friends to ski their terrain of choice with? It sounds so odd, I don't think I've really ever met anyone who had this preference overall. Most I've seen say things about skiing with all guys is also followed up by wishing they had female friends to add to their group as well.

As someone that does have very few female friends that enjoy skiing the terrain that I enjoy most; this is how I would generally interpret a comment about skiing with "only" guys (and I could see myself saying it with exactly this meaning).

I would challenge anyone that is met with the impression that it's bragging rights to continue the conversation with that self-diagnosed-badass-lady. Ask them why they only ride guys and if they would want to ski with more ladies if they could find others that wanted to ski their preferred terrain. Some people simply don't have a preference of the gender of their ski partners, and just look for people that enjoy the same terrain at a similar speed. For the most part, I see far fewer women in trees and bumps. It's not to say there aren't any, but it's generally easier to find guys with a similar desire for that terrain.

I will say, it's always an amazing day when I can share it with other ladies with similar mindsets (just ask my husband how stoked I always am after a day of shredding with the ladies...I don't shut up about it).
 

ski diva

Administrator
Staff member
As someone that does have very few female friends that enjoy skiing the terrain that I enjoy most; this is how I would generally interpret a comment about skiing with "only" guys (and I could see myself saying it with exactly this meaning).

I would challenge anyone that is met with the impression that it's bragging rights to continue the conversation with that self-diagnosed-badass-lady. Ask them why they only ride guys and if they would want to ski with more ladies if they could find others that wanted to ski their preferred terrain. Some people simply don't have a preference of the gender of their ski partners, and just look for people that enjoy the same terrain at a similar speed. For the most part, I see far fewer women in trees and bumps. It's not to say there aren't any, but it's generally easier to find guys with a similar desire for that terrain.

I will say, it's always an amazing day when I can share it with other ladies with similar mindsets (just ask my husband how stoked I always am after a day of shredding with the ladies...I don't shut up about it).


I have no doubt that this is indeed the case with some women — the lack of female ski friends would certainly be a good reason to ski with guys. After all, connecting with other women skiers is one of the reasons I started this forum. I, myself, have many ski friends who are guys and ski with them regularly. And yes, continuing the conversation would certainly make sense. Because really, you never know. That said, context is everything. I have without question known women who view skiing with men as vastly superior to skiing with women because, in their view, women on the whole just don't ski as well. Now, it certainly could be that they don't know many good female skiers. Then again, maybe not. But the way that it's said certainly rubs me the wrong way. It's as if ONLY guys could keep up with them and that if you're a guy, you're automatically a good skier. And as well all know, there are a lot of crappy male skiers out there, too.

In short, I think both points are well taken. I agree with you, @elemmac and @MissySki , but I don't, too.

All that aside, I hate to limit this thread to just talking about this, since there were so many other good points in that article, too. It's one of the best I've seen about sexism and skiing.
 
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shadoj

Angel Diva
All that aside, I hate to limit this thread to just talking about this, since there were so many other good points in that article, too. It's one of the best I've seen about sexism and skiing.

Yes, the film really does make some great points about sexism; Elyse is very inspiring. I hope more film companies take the hint; with any luck, equipment manufacturers will see more opportunities for women's product placement in films & adding women to their R&D/test teams. Along with all of the discussion on the "ski length for women" article, it can feel like we're an afterthought at times. I thank all of you skiing ladies for proving we do exist and want equal treatment!

I'm really looking forward to meeting some of y'all next season; I too have had only a couple female friends to ski with, one being a beginner. However, our small hill has 5 (five!) new female patrol candidates that passed their toboggan exam last season & another new female full patroller that finished OEC last year. All are really awesome people, too... and no one dumped me out of the toboggan during training (my main ski buddy was helping instruct, so of course I went along to be a "victim"). They're definitely going to make me up my skiing game, even though we don't have big powder chutes here!
 

BonStarlet

Certified Ski Diva
As someone that does have very few female friends that enjoy skiing the terrain that I enjoy most; this is how I would generally interpret a comment about skiing with "only" guys (and I could see myself saying it with exactly this meaning).

I would challenge anyone that is met with the impression that it's bragging rights to continue the conversation with that self-diagnosed-badass-lady. Ask them why they only ride guys and if they would want to ski with more ladies if they could find others that wanted to ski their preferred terrain. Some people simply don't have a preference of the gender of their ski partners, and just look for people that enjoy the same terrain at a similar speed. For the most part, I see far fewer women in trees and bumps. It's not to say there aren't any, but it's generally easier to find guys with a similar desire for that terrain.

I will say, it's always an amazing day when I can share it with other ladies with similar mindsets (just ask my husband how stoked I always am after a day of shredding with the ladies...I don't shut up about it).

I think the truth that i'm realizing (1.5 years after moving cross country right before a pandemic ,then blowing up my leg) is that as an adult...it's actually pretty damn HARD to meet bad ass women to do bad ass things with....
 

shadoj

Angel Diva
I think the truth that i'm realizing (1.5 years after moving cross country right before a pandemic ,then blowing up my leg) is that as an adult...it's actually pretty damn HARD to meet bad ass women to do bad ass things with....
@BonStarlet - Hi! Hello! I will happily be a participant in bad-assery with you :smile:
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, there are few women that ski at my level. And I do "source" them out. Otherwise it's with some cautious guys that I realized last year were holding me back from doing some great stuff at Tremblant. I need to change my ski buddies...
 

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