Foot or boot problem?

[Severine]

Foot cramping, that is. Early season it's the worst, but then if I've been away for a while or if I buckle down too fast, I get foot cramps that hurt soooo bad. I have flexible flat feet (small arch when unweighted and pretty much no arch when weighted). I did pay for the $150 custom footbeds this time that were done unweighted as they're supposed to offer more support. Been out in the boots twice now and I'm still getting foot cramps initially. It does seem to get better as the day wears on, though it sucks toughing it out.

So is this a boot problem? Or is it my feet? Are there stretches I could maybe do or strengthening? It's likely that part of my problem was being off skis for so long in the middle of the season. But this is something I really need to tweak out.

 

[Robyn]

Well, I was having major pain across the bottom of my mid foot recently when I tightened down enough for control in the bumps. Saturday was just too much after being in Elk Glades at Beaver Creek (double black). I marched into Surefoot and told them something had to change. He did some buckle adjustments and yesterday was SO much better. Maybe you just need to do that?

 

[Jilly]

Also check the width of the boot vs your foot. Could be just a tad narrow for you. But I think that Robyn's problem might be your too. Try adjusting the micro adjustments on the buckles.

 

[CMCM]

I skied for 2 seasons in a boot which didn't fit my particular foot right. I couldn't get in or out of them easily....it HURT getting them on and off, and DH had to help me! On long ski days, I had to take a mid-day rest to get the boots off becaise various parts of my feet were really in pain. I went to Surefoot and got a custom footbed, which didn't really help even after "tweaking" it numerous times. I guess I had more or less written it off to "my difficult feet", because I was told my boots *were* the right size, etc. Several months ago, my DH encouraged me to go try some different boots.....and I found one which was perfect and easy to get in/out of. I didn't even notice a breaking-in period with them, and they are so comfortable I can wear them all day and they never hurt my feet. By the way, I put the old Surefoot footbed into my new boots and they are now fine too. The new boots are the same size as the ones I hated, so I guess it all comes down to YOUR feet and the various brands and how they are shaped. I'd really suggest finding a good bootfitter to help you and trying on different brands. Lots of boots on sale now....I had to buy mine at full price, but now I see them all over at 40% off. I'm almost tempted to buy a second "spare" pair for when these wear out!

 

[perma-grin]

Severine, are you getting the cramps with the boots when you stand in them say in your living room or just when you ski? Were you shell fit in your boot? And last but not least were your footbeds adjusted to this particular pair of ski boots ? All of these things are factors to consider when trying to narrow down the problem.

 

[Severine]

I just bought new boots. I've had 2 days out on them. I tried on what they recommended for my wide-ish feet and ski ability level/what I want out of my boots. These fit the best of the options I had (and better than my old pair, which were too big). The shop I went to is highly rated for bootfitting (though I'll admit the guy I saw was not a master bootfitter but they do have someone on staff). However, they're also 1 hr away and not always easy to get to by myself with 2 kids in tow.

I was shell fit - ended up going down 1 shell size from a 26.0 to a 25.0 (size 10-11 feet in street shoes, for a frame of reference). My footbeds were made for these boots (I had semi-custom footbeds in my old pair of boots).

I will play around with the buckles some more, but it may be that they are a tad narrow in one spot. They fit better before the custom footbeds were put in, so maybe something needs to be shaved down more with that as well. When I picked the boots up, I was by myself with my kids.

I have been walking around the house in the boots since I wasn't able to ski. Don't get the foot cramps when walking/sitting - only skiing. And it's only if I buckle down too early or ski too long of a trail initially. Does that make sense? If I take the time to do some warm up runs, I usually don't have problems (or the feet don't cramp up as much).

Looks like I need to get my butt back over to the bootfitter. Not sure when I'll have a chance to try out adjustments, but it sounds like something might need to be tweaked.

 

[SnowHot]

I am by no means an expert in boot fitting but........
The only other time(s) I've heard of this cramping is with someone with wide ish feet, minimal instep and a custom, unweighted foot bed.

You may need to have the foot bed shaved or try a thinner surefoot(or similar) for a turn or two.

 

[perma-grin]

So let me see if I understand correctly. You don't have the pain standing in a flexed position? If your not sure put them on with your normal ski socks buckle them normally, then either vacume or do dishes something that will allow you to make more of a normal ski boot flexing movement pattern. Do you branac in a size ten shoe or do you by a ten for another reason? Or do you just have a longer arch length? In general a size 26 mondo point is equivelant to a ladies 9, and a 25 equals a ladies 8. So you have went down a substantial amount (if you measure a ladies size 10 on a branac device) for a recreational skier. Cramping is usually atributed to a lack of space in the boot threw width or a very high instep. The fitter can adjust some at the ball of the foot, by dremil tool or with a heat gun and a bump if adjusting the foot bed doesn't help. There are lots of options. Can you spread your toes out and feel all of your metatarsal heads spread onto the footbed? Lift your toes to the top of your boots so your toenails are touching the top of the boot liner. From the ball of your foot all the way across to the little toe side the bottom of your foot should be spread out on the footbed ( with the toes lifted up). You should not have any squeezing or pinching in this position. If the footbed is an ambi-fit type I will shave a very slight amount off of the footboard (not foot bed)under neath the liner to make more room inside the shell. Most unweighted foot beds will tolerate a little side to side shaving with a pass or two on the bottom. I am assuming that these aren't posted orthotics but footbeds? How many days do you have on the boots, are your liners fully broken in yet? Have your feet had a chance to adjust to the smaller boots and footbeds? You know like with a Dansko clog the foot not the shoe adjust. Then there is the most obvious but most over looked. This one is why I asked about if your feet only cramp up while you are skiing. What are the chances of you curling your toes under in reaction to struggling for fore /aft balance or subconciously being apprehensive at the start of your ski day? It's pretty common and alot of skiers suffer from this. You just don't notice it as often when your boots are to big, ill fitting and with out footbeds. Why not? Because the sides of our feet (your ball and little toe area) aren't in as close of contact with your shell via the liner and beds. I know when I enter the yikes zone I can cramp my feet up pretty darn good! And I know my boots fit correctly. Try this with your boots on clench your toes under for a bit. See if it creates a familar feeling in your arch. It is very common to have a customer come back a few times for fine tuning on new boots and footbeds. As a matter of fact it is more uncommon when they don't come back for fit tweaking. But the more you know and have wriiten down for the bootfitter the more he/she can help you to refine the fit. Great fitting boots take time but are worth the process. I hope that helps.

 

[rangergrrl]

This happens to me ALL the time if I have to walk any distance in my ski boots. Skiing for the most part is fine but some days the cramps start after a few runs and will only ease if I put a lot of weight on that foot or take the boot off. The worst pain is when my feet are swinging free on the chair lift up. Its typically one foot or the other but not both at the same time.

 

[Severine]

My 26.0 mondo boots were too big. I wasn't shell fit and didn't know any better at the time. The 25.0 have between 1-1.5 finger's width space behind my heel. That's a correct fit for the kind of skiing I want (which is more performance, not strictly recreational). I wear size 10 shoes if they fit - many times, they're not long enough for my big ole feet and then I have to go for an 11 (since there's no 10.5) which sometimes fit well, sometimes are a little big. If I tried to wear a size 9/9.5 (which is what size my mom wears) my feet don't fit in the shoes. The shoes are too short. I've always had big feet, which only got worse after having 2 babies. But you can't trust boot size conversions that manufacturers list as they are flawed in general.

They are footbeds, not orthotics. After putting them in (which they are a 2 part footbed and they shaved off part of the bottom to fit them in my boot properly) I ended up with less room across the top than when I started. Didn't say anything initially because I figured that may resolve itself as the boots pack out a bit. I do have room to wiggle my toes.

I do not have a high instep, but there definitely is some pressure across my instep with the way the footbeds were fitted inside my boots (again, was waiting to see if that would resolve on its own or if it needed attention). So it sounds like that's definitely worth mentioning to the shop.

I don't think I'm curling my toes when skiing, but it's hard to say since I've been getting out so infrequently lately. I do know that I've been working on sort of standing on the balls of my feet (the best way I can think of to describe it) to get a more forward stance. But this is a new thing this year whereas the foot cramping has existed since day 1 of skiing.

ETA: I only have 2 days out skiing in these boots, but probably 5 or 6 days (several hours at a time) of wearing them around the house to help break them in.

 

[Severine]

I am by no means an expert in boot fitting but........
The only other time(s) I've heard of this cramping is with someone with wide ish feet, minimal instep and a custom, unweighted foot bed.

You may need to have the foot bed shaved or try a thinner surefoot(or similar) for a turn or two.

Hey, sounds just like me. I'm definitely bringing the boots in. Just a little scary because I'm not sure I'll have a chance to try them out again before the trip. Rain is expected all this coming weekend. :(

 

[perma-grin]

Hi severine, As a boot fitter I see alot more volume issues with women than men. We tend to retain more water and have boney promenience issues. The higher up the foot chain the boot the longer the liner break in, some times up to 15 full ski days. Depending on what boot you have, (how high the performance) you should have an adequet amount of time to determine if the boot liner is going to release on your foot or not. I think you may need a little room considering all of the things that you have eliminated. I always remind customers that once I've taken it away ( grind, bump or cut) I can't but it back. Less is always more in boot fitting. That's why the break in period is so important. And yes I agree the mondo point isn't perfect but it is a lot closer to universal than the old euro system that we had in the early "80's" when DIN came into play. Your boot soles now are usually within 3 to 4 mm with in a shell size from manufacturer to manufactuer. The problem stems from boot- last varing so much to address the different foot shapes. Which is why street shoe fit vary so much at the same length. Unless you are dealing with full race or " plug" boots the sizing is a liitle different with this type of boot because they were never intended to be worn straight out of the box and they require a lot of fitting (can you say dremel tool) to get right. Definetly take note to let your fitter know exactly where, and how intense the cramping is, because you can't recreate it in the store. I would also suggest that if possible go by yourself, minus munkins so you and your fitter can focus soley on you. Distractions ( munkins)can make a good fitting difficult.

 

[SnowHot]

Hey, sounds just like me. I'm definitely bringing the boots in. Just a little scary because I'm not sure I'll have a chance to try them out again before the trip. Rain is expected all this coming weekend. :(

Put the stock footbeds back in the boots and see if the cramp area goes away.

 

[perma-grin]

Put the stock footbeds back in the boots and see if the cramp area goes away.

Ahhh!!! Stock footbeds!!! Blasphemy!!! Get behind thee Satan!!! Sorry having a bootfitter's moment. Lol!:ROTF:

 

[SnowHot]

Ahhh!!! Stock footbeds!!! Blasphemy!!! Get behind thee Satan!!! Sorry having a bootfitter's moment. Lol!:ROTF:

Hey! I didn't say that stock footbeds were superior. I said try them in comparison to the custom foot beds to see if the cramping went away.
The custom footbed may be seriously too thick for the instep.

One person I know who had custom footbeds ended up skiing with no foot bed at all because of the pain to the instep, and cramping.

 

[Severine]

Um, yeah, I don't have the stock footbeds anymore. I do have my semi-custom footbeds from my previous boots, though. They're thinner. I could try those instead. (Though I would hope they could get my custom footbeds right after all the money I spent on them!!!)

 

[Gloria]

Hey! I didn't say that stock footbeds were superior. I said try them in comparison to the custom foot beds to see if the cramping went away.
The custom footbed may be seriously too thick for the instep.

One person I know who had custom footbeds ended up skiing with no foot bed at all because of the pain to the instep, and cramping.

Sometimes the footbed fills volume in one place yet makes the boot too tight in others. My superfeet were too thick in the forefoot and shaving this down a little made a world of difference without altering the shell in anyway.

 

[SnowHot]

Um, yeah, I don't have the stock footbeds anymore. I do have my semi-custom footbeds from my previous boots, though. They're thinner. I could try those instead.

Yea, I don't have my stock foot beds either. I think the first thing you do when you get custom foot beds is throw the old ones out.

If you try your old semi custom foot beds, they'll have to be cut down quite a bit, but that is something you may be able to do if you use your current customs as a template.

Perma-Grin is definitely more knowledgeable than I am, but I'm a tinker-er and tend to try things myself if I can.

 

[Severine]

Actually, the old semi-customs fit in my new boots. The doofuses at the ski shop we used to go to (and never will again) cut them down so much that they actually slopped around a bit in my old boots. (Another reason I was having problems with my old boots... nothing like having your footbeds shift during your ski day.) It's certainly worth a shot... and worth bringing with if I can't get this perfected before Abasin.

 

[TsuKata]

I actually had a bit of an odd problem of this sort this past weekend. My left foot went numb while I was standing off to the side on the hill. My boot was definitely not too tight (my instructor verified), my sock was fine...basically all the "normal" causes weren't an issue.

I've had problems like that before, in that standing still while in skis is incredibly uncomfortable for me. Skiing is fine. Riding the lift is fine, but trying to just stand still is tough on me, particularly for that left leg. (For those who may have seen elsewhere, that is the leg that I've had knee troubles with, leading to an MRI and diagnosis of some arthritis.)

Admittedly, I do not have orthotics or custom footbeds...it's the default stuff that came with the boot.