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Flex too high, am I doomed

Muffy2

Diva in Training
Hi I went to the shops and a staff member helped me fit into a pair of boots. She gave me a few to try and the best fitting ended up being a pair of Lange xt 110 Lv womens boots which i've linked below.

The flex is 110. I ski green and blue runs at resorts and Im only 161cm tall and 53kg. I may possibly get into social racing with my uni club but thats up in the air at this stage.

I asked the staff member about this and they said fit is more important than flex and they'll soften up as I use them and that its better to get a boot with a higher flex that i'll eventually progress into. Also that i'll be fine with 110 and something with a flex of 120 and above is more to worry about. Just wondering how true this is and if i've made a big mistake in buying these boots and how greatly it will affect my skiing?

Thanks in advance

 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
I hope you didn't pay that price. This colour is from 2019. (Not sure exchange rate, but this boot in 2020 model is less than 1/2 price in Canada right now.) I would get a second opinion if you can. Having worked in a ski shop, I know that owners want to make old stock go. This is perfect example of this. This flex is too much for you at this time. This model in 2021 has one flex higher at 120. You're not a big lady, so I would be concerned.

If you can get a second opinion besides us...go for it.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
....I asked the staff member about this and they said fit is more important than flex and they'll soften up as I use them and that its better to get a boot with a higher flex that i'll eventually progress into. Also that i'll be fine with 110 and something with a flex of 120 and above is more to worry about. Just wondering how true this is and if i've made a big mistake in buying these boots and how greatly it will affect my skiing?
...
I think you'll be fine since you can have the flex softened. Boots won't soften up on their own with use, though. Ski a few times and if you are unhappy with the way your skis behave, take the boots back and have the bootfitter soften them up. A boot's flex can be softened, but not stiffened. Once softened, it's permanent.

Flex is about ski performance, not comfort, by the way. A well-fitted boot should not cause shin pain, even if it's a 130 flex. A too-soft flexing boot for a skier, given her skill set, will leave the skier with too little control over the ski's behavior. A too-stiff flexing boot for a skier, given her skill set, will make the skis behave jerky.

The point of a boot cuff flexing forward is for it to absorb your movements progressively, instead of transferring those movements immediately to the ski. The movements that get absorbed by the cuff are when your shin presses strongly into the front of the cuff.

A fast skier using high edge angles, or a heavy skier who knows how to pressure the cuff, will end up applying more pressure to the boot cuff than a slow, light weight, flat-ski skier. But either of those skiers can use a high-flex boot. Whether that boot is good for them depends on their skill-set on lumpy snow, their speed, their ability to get a ski up on edge and bend it for a carved turn, and so on.

Having the boot absorb a skier's movements is important if the skier applies jerky forward pressure to the cuff, or if she makes poorly timed movements, or if the snow beneath the skis is lumpy enough to cause jerkiness, or if the skier puts pressure too fast on the cuff when the skis would behave better with a more progressive application of pressure. In those instances, the jerkiness and quick pressuring will be absorbed and not transmitted to the skis. The skis will move along the snow more smoothly in these cases with a flexing cuff rather than one that refuses to flex.

The better a skier gets at precision control of forward pressure on the cuff, the less that absorption is needed. So expert skiers sometimes ski with stiffer flexing boots. When they need to soften the flex, they loosen the buckles a bit.

@Jilly, you are suggesting she return these boots. Do you think softening them would be good enough, since the fit is good?
 
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Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
She can try softening them, but once that's done, they are hers. At 5'3 and under 120lb, she doesn't need this stiff a boot at her stage of learning.

I guess the question is "were you able to flex/bend the boot in the store"?
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Right. So @Muffy2, pay attention to Jilly. Were you able to flex them in the store? And did you pay that high price for them? Did the bootfitter alter the boot at all?
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Not that this boot can't be used for regular downhill skiing, but it's really made for touring. I was looking for the model in my search, but didn't really read the description of the boot. LV stands for low volume and this boot has a very narrow last of 97. XT is the free touring line up from Lange. This years its' XT3 for the line. So if you're touring and have that kind of set up, good. If you're just crusin the groomers, it's not really the boot for you.

So I wonder why this boot for an intermediate skier that is on mostly groomers? And Lange race boots are BLUE. Their high preformance rec boots are black or blue. There is a white model in a low flex and not sure but it probably has fur, lol!

By the way - Lange's are notorious for being cold.
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
My two cents...
I asked the staff member about this and they said fit is more important than flex
True (kind of). There are limits to this statement.
and they'll soften up as I use them
False. (Sales pitch). They only will start to feel softer after a TON of use, and that's when they are worn out and you should be replacing them. Normal everyday skiing will only soften them in undiscernible quantities.
and that its better to get a boot with a higher flex that i'll eventually progress into.
True and False. Depends on how fast you progress. If you ski...say...50+ days a season and will be skiing blacks and some off-piste by the end of next season, it's good to have a boot to grow into, otherwise you'll be buying another pair next year. If you ski one holiday week a year, and may never reach black diamond levels...your boots could be a detriment to your skiing.
Also that i'll be fine with 110
True or False. Depends on your abilities. You say you ski greens and blues. Are you parallel skiing on those trails? Wedging? Are you pretty comfortably balanced, or do you find yourself bobbling about always stopping to re-gain balance. A 110 boot won't "accept" flaws as well as a sub-90-ish flex boot. But if you have pretty good technique, just prefer green/blue speeds, you might be just fine with the boot.
and something with a flex of 120 and above is more to worry about.
False. This one is a sign that the shop employee was selling you a boot.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Hi I went to the shops and a staff member helped me fit into a pair of boots. She gave me a few to try and the best fitting ended up being a pair of Lange xt 110 Lv womens boots which i've linked below.

The flex is 110. I ski green and blue runs at resorts and Im only 161cm tall and 53kg. I may possibly get into social racing with my uni club but thats up in the air at this stage.
Hello again! Where in Australia are you planning to ski this season? Are you going to buy skis too?

Did you ask for a boot fitter? Or just ended up with the first free staff member?
 

kiki

Angel Diva
I have the lange rx boot from a few years ago red and black and white in 110. I am 5’2 and about 150 lb. I am an intermediate skier and have enjoyed these boots though do have heaters to Jills point about warmth. My boots before these I think were a 90 flex and I do remember it being a weird adjustment but now I love how responsive they are.
1625163128552.jpeg
 

Analisa

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It could be a good boot. I think most of your stats match more clearly to the 90 flex sibling, but depending on your leg strength, how quickly you're progressing, the range of motion in your ankle, a good fitter might steer you towards that 110.

The big red flag to me is the fitter's comment that the boots will soften over time and use. The fact that they mentioned that would cast a lot of doubt on the entire appointment for me.

But let's also talk about the soles on these. Lange put "Walk to Ride" soles on this model, which quickly became obsolete. Ski boots traditionally have been built with a flat inbound sole or a grippy, easy to walk in touring sole. When hybrid boots came out in the mid 2010s, 2 brands tried to make a sole that split the difference between the two. Marker-Dalbello family made GripWalk. Atomic-Salomon made Walk to Ride. Neither of these new bindings fit in traditional inbound bindings, so these families also made special Gripwalk bindings and Walk to Ride bindings. The industry thought 2 different sole types doing the same thing was dumb and GripWalk has emerged the winner. Most (but not all) inbound bindings these days are made to work with GripWalk boots

Having a Walk to Ride sole will make binding shopping in the future more limiting. The only models that adjust to the WTR norm that are in production are the "MNC" (multi-norm compatible) ones from Atomic & Salomon.

I'm also curious what bindings are on your current skis and whether the fitter took that into consideration when they picked out that boot for you.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
@Analisa - I was wondering about the soles. The "WTR" was sounding bells that it was meant more for AT type bindings than DH. And the Free Tour moniker for the model, XT. I'm not that up on Lange as I live in Salomon/Atomic town. . (The main warehouse for Canada is just down the street. So the local shop is those brands and a few Rossi's.) Can you confirm that these are an older model? Lemon was available in 2019 from my research.
 

fgor

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Everyone else has already given some really good advice and points to think about. Some that come to mind for me:

* did the salesperson do a shell fit for any of the boots you tried on? (take the liners out, get you to put your foot inside the hard plastic boot shell to more closely inspect the fit)
* are you looking to get into ski touring? If not, this particular boot is a curious choice. Touring capable boots are more expensive than an equivalent alpine boot.
* did the salesperson explicitly say you were flexing the boot fine in the store?
When i bought new boots a couple of years ago, i ended up in a boot with a flex index that intimidated me (115). I queried it and the fitter told me that i was flexing the boot fine in the store and they had no issues putting me in that boot. They also wanted to put me in a higher flex because I'd had a severe ankle injury and had limited ROM in one ankle. Basically, the high flex was justified.
On the flip side, all my friends with 50/50 boots have said that they flex softer than an equivalent alpine boot, so this particular one may not be so bad. Unsure.
* doing some quick research it looks like they probably are an older model. They look like the exact match of this, sole colour and all: https://www.powder.com/gear-locker/lange-xt-110-freetour-w-lv/
Same here: https://earnyourturns.com/33412/1st-look-langes-xt-free-tour-at-boot/
This places them at around 2016. They probably have a local new cost of around 1100 so 950 may already be a discount, and it is the start of ski season in the southern hemisphere. However that's still a really old model so i might expect more discount, but I'm not familiar with ski boot discounting.
 
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Analisa

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Jilly I would definitely slot the Freetour in as a hybrid boot with a WTR sole, 40 degrees of cuff rotation and 1600g weight. Definitely just as appropriate inbound and out. A true AT boot would be closer to 1300g, ISO 9523 touring sole, and 50+ degrees of rotation in the cuff. Lange's bringing that to market with the XT Tour in 2022.

The yellow's from 2018. 2019 went robin's egg blue and dropped the WTR sole for a ISO 5355 inbound sole with the option to purchase an aftermarket Gripwalk one, and then the current XT3 went full Gripwalk from purchase.

So yea, if they fit well, going with an XT3 LV would be an exact or extremely close fit, but would open up both the 90 & 100 flex options, and give a lot more options for future binding matches. (And I really like a hybrid boot for anyone remotely interested in touring in the future. It lets you test it out with a rental without rental boots, plus it keeps the costs more reasonable for progressing skiers vs building 2 entire setups with an $800 "true" touring boot that will only need replacing as they progress into new gear).
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
Having a Walk to Ride sole will make binding shopping in the future more limiting. The only models that adjust to the WTR norm that are in production are the "MNC" (multi-norm compatible) ones from Atomic & Salomon.
I believe any Marker Sole ID binding will work with WTR boots as well?
 

fgor

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@Jilly
(And I really like a hybrid boot for anyone remotely interested in touring in the future. It lets you test it out with a rental without rental boots, plus it keeps the costs more reasonable for progressing skiers vs building 2 entire setups with an $800 "true" touring boot that will only need replacing as they progress into new gear).
That's true, I'm not vastly interested in touring but I'd have to buy new boots if i wanted to and that really puts me off, heh. It was already too hard to get alpine boots that fit me well!
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
I realize that Oz $'s are not near the US or Canadian Loonie, but $ 949.00 AUS is too much for a new, old boot. Unless that is 1/2 price already.

Went and checked exchange rates...we're just about even on $.
 

fgor

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Oh yes, welcome @Muffy2 !! Lovely to see more southern hemisphere folk around, too. I'm just across the ditch in NZ.

For a local-ish price reference for everyone else - my atomic hawx ultra 115s (high end womens alpine boot) cost me NZD$950. I bought them pre-season in May a couple of years ago, and paid RRP/MSRP. I then got a lot of free work done on them over the following season :smile: Season here is roughly June-Oct.

NZ and AU prices always include sales tax (10% in AU, 15% in NZ). So they'd probably be AUD$900. I've seen the hawx xtd in store, which is another 50/50 boot, and it's well over $1000.

We do get price gouged a little down here and the sales-tax-included-in-price makes it look worse too, as USA and Canadian retailers don't seem to include sales tax in the advertised price.
 

SallyCat

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The good thing about these being a touring/hybrid boot is that the flex is probably softer than the 110 number implies.

I have a pair of Lange XT Free LV 120s, and they are too soft for me, which is weird. I would never even consider a 130 flex in a regular alpine boot, but I think that's the direction I have to go if the new XT3s have the same flex profile.

So I would go more with feel than number on these particular boots. BUT as others have said, if you paid almost a grand for an older-model boot from a salesman who said that ski boots "soften with use" then yeah, I would return them immediately and go somewhere else.
 

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