ESA Snowmass, the saga continues...

[abc]

OK, now that we know Mindy is well on the mend, let me fill in my share of ESA week, especially the "end" part.

Me and QQ are the two who fare reasonably well health-wise. No cold, no altitude sickness, no frostbite. Though I had to admit pulling my MCL on a minor crash on day 1 of ESA. Fortunately, the pull was minor so I continued. Funny thing is, although it hurts walking, skiing doesn't seem to bother it. ;)

Some thought that was the cause of my dropping down to a lower group. But that's not really the case. I simply didn't feel like being the last one in the group, always being waited on. Not to mention they were all ready to rip up the fields of VW size moguls on day 1 and seek to improve from there... namely, I was put in the wrong group to start with!

The group I ended up with was probably the opposite of QQ's experience. Ability level was very different. So was expectation. So there's a fair amount of "bargaining" and arguement of what we want to do next. :( Still, I have to give credit to our instructor who managed to bring some form of breakthrough to almost everyone in the group. After a very frustrating day 2 and 3, where we all felt we didn't even know how to ski groomers (because we were asked to do some really simply and silly drills but was told we did them wrong!), we basically free skied on day 4, putting togehter all the skills and tactics we've learned in the previous 3 days. We tackled some of the double black mogul fields the size of big boulders in the beautiful Hanging Valley.

I and Inthecould both stayed after the clinic to free ski. I was surprised I no longer hesitate when moguls got big! I simply ski them the same way!!! Both Highland and Snowmass has endless glades with nicely spaced trees. I had a blast in them!

Inthecloud, in the mean time was busy watching the X-game and getting autographes from the X-stars. So we ski on our own and only meet up for dinner and re-cap our day over pasta and steaks...

Saturday, I started to get worried by the forecast of a winter storm starting on Sunday afternoon, just the time when I was due to fly out of Aspen. But worrying wasn't going to do me much good. All the earlier flights were full and I resigned myself to one last full day of skiing. The morning dawn warm with hazy sunshine. I forgot about the weather worry and had a fun time skiing around. Until mid-afternoon, when it started snowing... And I nearly got knocked out of the chair by the strong wind (they stop that chair shortly after). It's time to get changed and ran to the airport...

When I got to Aspen airport, it resembles a zoo. The line in the check-in area wind all the way towards the door. When I got to the counter, there were two women shouting with the ticket agent...

To make a long story short, the plane I was going to get on was diverted to Grand Junction, together with 2 other flights. So there's this mad scrabling of trying to try to find ground transportation to get to Denver. And then, all in a sudden, two planes landed on the runway. They were planes for the later flights. So we all ran back up to the counter to see if we can squeez a spot on those two planes. I managed to get a spot, only to realize my luggages was not with me! Ran back down to baggage claim to hunt down my luggages and re-check them in. Security gate and all that, an hour later, we were on board!!!

But then we sat on the runway, and sat on the runway... for nearly an hour, until the announcement came the wind was too high for us to take off!!! So, again, the mad scrambling starts again to team up and rent SUV's to drive over to Denver (there're two major mountain passes we had to drive over between Aspen and Denver)...

In the end, I paired up with another driver and got a car. But it took another HOUR just to re-collect all of our bags from the plane that coudn't take off! By the time we got to DEN, it was 2am. Some choose to just lay on the floor of the airport till morning. Others try in vain to find motel rooms for a few hours of "proper" sleep. In the end, none of the motels could offer any transport (we've all returned our cars) to take us to our loding. So one by one, we gragged our luggage back to the terminal and spend the next couple hours at the terminal. I found out it's COLd inside the terminal, even with two jackets on! They probably turn the heat down to "conserve energy"?

Fortunately, that's the end of MY saga. My flight in the morning was on time and relatively empty. So I got to lay down on the seats and caught a bit of zzz's. I even managed to get back into the office and call it a "day" (in the eyes of my boss, that is. So if I have to go away again, it may not count against me ).

But the hardest part of all that, is I wish I could have stayed at Aspen. They got nearly a foot!!!

 

[Ski Spirit]

Thanks for the vivid description abc. Sounds like it was quite a trip for everyone, one way or another. I sympathized with your airport experiences as I spent 6 hours at the Denver airport trying to get my luggage back when all flights into Vail were cancelled!
Sounds like it was a lot of fun while you were there, if only it were easier getting in and out..........

 

[ski now work later]

Great trip report abc, and good for you for bumping yourself down a group. The fastest way to get injured and lose stamina is to be "over-terrained" and feel self-concious about taking it slowly. Your return home reminded me of last Valentine's Day when I was returning from Big Sky and they closed Bradley Aiport in Hartford, CT because of the storm. We had to fly into LaGuardia in NY, rent a car, drive home, and return the rental car to Bradley the next day. Lost about 5 hours sleep and $150 on the rental car, but it was so worth it for the snow that blanketed the Northeast for the next few weeks. I'm heading to Big Sky later next week and hope it snows (and stops) here in New England just before we come home!

I was in NYC for MLK weekend when you were at ESA and I think everyone was elsewhere skiing and riding 'cause the city was empty with no traffic on the East Side Drive!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Wow, abc, what a story. Made me tired just to read it! Can only imagine what it was like to actually DO it. Glad you finally made it home okay!

 

[abc]

ski_now_work_later, I don't know if it's still not too late. If you had to drive part of the legs, in other words, the flight never took off, you're entitled to a partial refund of the leg un-flown.

I got a refund for the Aspen to Denver leg. It came close to my share of the retal car cost. I'm still a bit off cost-wise. But no big deal.

Being able to put in half a day's work means I come out ahead (i.e. got paid for the day).

 

[abc]

Wow, abc, what a story. Made me tired just to read it! Can only imagine what it was like to actually DO it.

That's reallly just a short version of it. For example, there's just enough snow on the road we couldn't see where the road ends and the cliff starts. The "normally" 4 hour drive turned out to be 5 1/2.

Or, at DEN we had to wait outside on the curb for the shuttle van that was supposed to take us to the hotel. But I don't know if it ever came. I left after about 20 min of waiting in the cold...

 

[SnowHot]

OK, now that we know Mindy is well on the mend, let me fill in my share of ESA week, especially the "end" part.



Some thought that was the cause of my dropping down to a lower group. But that's not really the case. I simply didn't feel like being the last one in the group, always being waited on. Not to mention they were all ready to rip up the fields of VW size moguls on day 1 and seek to improve from there... namely, I was put in the wrong group to start with!

Its common to be moved on the first day or so. There are so many skiers that could be in one or the other, and the coaches realize that women tend to sell themselves short on ability, while men tend to exaggerate their Impressive abilities.

The group I ended up with was probably the opposite of QQ's experience. Ability level was very different. So was expectation. So there's a fair amount of "bargaining" and arguement of what we want to do next. :( Still, I have to give credit to our instructor who managed to bring some form of breakthrough to almost everyone in the group. After a very frustrating day 2 and 3, where we all felt we didn't even know how to ski groomers (because we were asked to do some really simply and silly drills but was told we did them wrong!), we basically free skied on day 4, putting togehter all the skills and tactics we've learned in the previous 3 days. We tackled some of the double black mogul fields the size of big boulders in the beautiful Hanging Valley.

Ah hah moments are sooooo inspiring! Glad you had an opportunity to seize a few of those. I know ESA Stowe has transformed my skiing to a better place.

I and Inthecould both stayed after the clinic to free ski. I was surprised I no longer hesitate when moguls got big! I simply ski them the same way!!! Both Highland and Snowmass has endless glades with nicely spaced trees. I had a blast in them!

Inthecloud, in the mean time was busy watching the X-game and getting autographes from the X-stars. So we ski on our own and only meet up for dinner and re-cap our day over pasta and steaks...



But the hardest part of all that, is I wish I could have stayed at Aspen. They got nearly a foot!!!

Sounds like you ladies had some fun. You shoulda come to Copper on Friday! We had a ton of fun!!!
And I got to hug Bud myself

 

[abc]

Its common to be moved on the first day or so. There are so many skiers that could be in one or the other, and the coaches realize that women tend to sell themselves short on ability, while men tend to exaggerate their Impressive abilities.

My mistake was to say I'm comfortable in bumps. Well, I didn't mean "comfortable" to fly down them when they're the size of houses! I knew I was in trouble when the "handles" were called: "skinut", "bumpdad" was part of that group!!! I do miss Squarty's warped humor. ;-)

Ah hah moments are sooooo inspiring! Glad you had an opportunity to seize a few of those. I know ESA Stowe has transformed my skiing to a better place.

As happy as I'm with the instruction, I must say I'm quite disappointed with the "atmosphere" of this ESA (the lack of it, that is). I was expecting the same commaraderie of Stowe but everybody just disappear after skiing. Especially our instructor who's too busy with his boot-fitting work and skip both the vidoe analysis and the group re-cap in the evening...

Aside from those in my group(s), I didn't meet a sinlge bear that I don't already know. That, make this a commercial clinic, not an "epic" event.

 

[ski now work later]

I thought that ESA Stowe event was very small, cozy, and friendly. However, some of the Bears warned me that the Western ESAs were bigger and not nearly as social, so sorry to hear that this was the case.... Yet one more reason to attend Diva events!

 

[abc]

Well, if I had known about it in advance, at least I would have adjusted my expectation.

I've been on two internet ski gatherings so far. Both times my expectation was at leats met, if not exceeded. So Aspen ESA was a bit of a shock. While individuals are quite friendly, the overall setting simply doesn't lend itself to socializing. There're simply no focus points. Substituting the banquet with a picnic made it worse (it was a glorious day for skiing, so no one wants to linger around socializating, but if it's cold and windy, the picnic would have been pretty un-comfortable, so either way it wouldn't have worked)

My group consist of both veterants and new comers. While one old-timer said this is his last ESA, one new comer also said it was good but not likely a repeat attendence. I guess for me too, it's nothing "special". I may attend again if the timing happen to be convinient but won't make any special effort for it. Especially not likely for another one at Snowmass (eating out was god-awful expensive but not a garantee for quality food).

 

[SnowHot]

abc, the oddity is this> Some think that ESA Stowe is more of a social atmosphere with a learning experience, while the Aspen Snowmass event is considered a tremendous learning experience with a mild social atmosphere. I have not attended the other events so I can't comment on anything outside of the Stowe event.
If you had those AH hah moments, then you accomplished something in the learning curve. I'm sorry , however that you didn't get the most out of the social aspects of the week.

For me, I love ESA Stowe.
Make ESA Stowe a target for yourself. IMO, its smaller and a shorter event, making it more affordable. Besides, I'll be there!!!

 

[abc]

Besides, I'll be there!!!

I'll be there as long as there's snow! (Oh wait, I'm supposed to go to Hong Kond & Japan next December! Ooops...)

There's nothing wrong with the "learning experience" of Aspen ESA. It's just that... it's just another clinic! There're otherclinics/camps out there that are highly spoken of, such as the one QQ attended. Actually, at my level (7-8'ish?), I think it's relatively easy to find a good camp that would push me enough at many other resorts too, which gets me to my next pet peeve...

I'm also not crazy about Aspen, errh, I mean Snowmass, wait, I mean Aspen. Ok, the problem is all that bussing around to get to the "other" mountain, whereever one stays. So, the "slopeside" aspect is well, not there. For Stowe, we drove to the slope too. But we paid about 1/4 of the cost for lodging!!! (BTW, the condition of our lodging, Pokolodi, at 4 times the cost, is about the same standard as the one we stayed at Stowe! )

 

[ski now work later]

ESA Big Sky should be great as that is such a fabulous mountain with slopeside lodging in the small, cozy village. The prices for the ESA lodging at the Huntley Lodge are a total bargain. If I were going to do ESA out West, I would do Big Sky.... The Bozeman airport is also really small, friendly and easy to get in and out of....

Can you tell I love Big Sky? I'll be there a week from tonight!!!!

 

[Lisamarie]

ABC, was it you that I met in the lobby of the Pokolodi on the last day of the event? The fact that I need to ask this illustrates the point. As someone who has been at almost every Western Epic event, including one at Stowe (with downright horrible conditions) I have observed the Academy evolution.

I was at the first event. It was held in Brighton, Utah. The cost was $375, and we were able to get rooms at the Extended Stay for $49 a night. All of the coaches were regular posters on the forum. Each morning, I did the on-snow warmups for the entire group, which gave everyone a chance to get together. In the afternoon, the stretching was performed right before the lecture. WTFH has a great video of himself doing a one leg balance exercise while holding a glass of beer in the other hand.

That year, I was in the lowest level group. Weems was our instructor. Unfortunately, he is a hard act to follow! The great thing about Weems is that he alternates challenging runs with easier runs, rather than work the class to the point of incompetence. We did some cool things that year. At the end of the Academy, people who had spouses of SO s in other groups all did a run together.

As the Academy progressed, people decided that they wanted a more elite coach staff, which is understandable. However, this contributed to the higher price. It also contributed to a highly competitive energy level, which started to cause a number of injuries, some of them pretty serious. This morning, it occurred to me that while I never get hit when free skiing, I have been hit at Epic events, by other academy students. I'm not sure why this happens, but it seems as if people come to the western events with the desire to push themselves to the point of incompetence. As such, the little quirks in their technique become magnified to the point of being dangerous, partially due to fatigue.

For example, I talked about this year's collision on the Epic forum. The lady in question is a superb skier, with a minor issue of end of the turn speed control. This is not a big problem, unless someone is feeling the fatigue of doing too much consecutive challenging terrain. Had one of the women in my group not acted instinctively, that collision could have seriously injured at least four people.

Another issue ABC touched on is being placed in the right group. This was not a problem in the first year, but recently, it has become pertinent. In my survey, I said that while I am finally ready to try a few bumps, I did not want it to be the entire focus. I did want to focus on powder and some steeps. Unfortunately, I was faced with an either or situation. The group I was with at first wanted ski bumps exclusively. The group I went into would have been far too easy, had Ursula not used creative teaching methods.

I still believe that the Academy is a worthwhile, albeit barely affordable event. However, I moved away from New York and Boston to be less neurotic and competitive about everything, including my skiing. Yes, that's easy for me to say, since I live near and work at a ski resort. However, it would be ironic to once again get injured at an event that was designed to teach people to be better skiers.

 

[abc]

ABC, was it you that I met in the lobby of the Pokolodi on the last day of the event? The fact that I need to ask this illustrates the point.

That, was borderline pathetic! (You mistook me for Hirome, I believe)

There're only about what, 10-15 women, and I already knew 2 of them, plus one in my group. Yet, I've not met any other woman to the degree that we'd recognize each other again! I think missing the banque has a lot to do with that.

There're a few other people I said hi to during the acedemy. Had there been a banquet, we would have certainly chat some more or even exchange contact info. But no, we weren't given the chance. In fact, the last two days of the event we don't even SEE the other groups!!! (The picnic lasted barely an hour. Plus the snow was so bright we couldn't take off our goggles - so we never see each other's faces!)

I'm ok with the instructions and the group assignment. I moved group as soon as I realized I was in over my head. The skill level of my group is closer than their expectation. ;-) So I stood my ground as to where we should be going. The one person who wants to tackle double black stuff actually don't really have the skill to do it safely. So I'm glad we weren't dragged there.

The cost of the clinic is not out of line compare with other similar commercial clinics out there. But without the commaraderie, it's also not more valueable either. Hence my conclusion I would not place any special value in ESA over other commercial clinics.

Aspen is a particularly expensive place. (the cost of our rooms may not seem too high, but service was non-existant. And room size and amenity left a lot to be desired) That, combined with a "market" rate of the clinic, put the academy near the higher end as far as total cost is concerned. If I were to do another ESA, it would be one held somewhere else. Not back to Aspen. It's value to cost ratio is simply not worthwhile.

 

[abc]

Weems was our instructor. Unfortunately, he is a hard act to follow!

Speaking of that, Weems was our "substitute" instructor for about 2 hours at the end of day 3. And truth be told, he was the one who "put it together" all the stuff we'd been working on the previous 2 1/2 days!!! The transformation was verified on day 4 in the double black bumps of Hanging Valley...

I felt he did so much in 2 hours it's worth more than a whole day!

 

[Lisamarie]

It would be great if at every ESA, Weems spent some time with each of the groups. I also think it would be awesome if he could standardize some of his techniques for all of the instructors. The alternating terrain I mentioned in my other post was so effective.

To describe it in detail: You learn a specific skill on a somewhat easier run. Next, you apply that skill on a more challenging run. After that, go back to the easier run. He tells you that doing the skill on the more challenging trail probably taught you something, and he was right.

So now, you are fine tuning that skill. Here was the final result: By day four of the first Academy, the hard runs of the first day became the easy runs of the last day!

Weems always ended the class on what he called a gratification run. It was usually a wide open groomer, and all you needed to do was "thank the mountain." I found that this was a much better approach than ending on a killer run, which can have the effect of installing defensive habits at the end of the day.

 

[abc]

The group I was with at first wanted ski bumps exclusively.

I don't know if there's ANY group that didn't spend a fair amount of time on the bumps!

I will never know, but our group spend all the time working on bumps or at least preparing to ski bumps. We didn't catch any powder even when there was a 4" or so overnight. I was a bit depressed that day.

It seems my old group did catch some good stash, with Squarty as a local guide. But I really don't know if there's good powder to be had somewhere else on the mountain. Difficulty with groups wanting to ski powder is there may not be any on a given day. So they had to work on something else. But once they're onto something "else", it's up to the instructor to take the group to whereever he sees fit. Our instructor was so focus with bumps we simply went right by the powder without giving it much respect! :(

 

[Toucan]

This has been an interesting thread to follow and I'll pose a hypothetical question here. Based on your experience, if you had to do it all over again, would you find more value in an all-day private with, say, Weems, or attending the ESA?

 

[NannyMin]

I would say that I had a completely different experience than abc.It is almost as if we were at two different ESA's! I found people extremely friendly, lots of social opportunities, and easy transportation from resort to resort. I was quite pleased to get to know quite a few Bears on a more personal level. I would say that if you are only looking for structured social events that this might not be the best ESA for you.

I personally would see a private with Weems vs ESA as two completely different learning opportunities that serve different needs. I wouldn't pass up either one! I am planning on attending ESA Snowmass again and I know the majority of the ladies in my group are also.

As far as the groups go, I find communication to be key. I communicated with Shanzy, my coach on exactly what I was looking to get out of the week, and when I didn't feel my needs were being met I communicated that to him. In response, he changed things up and was able to balance what I was asking for, with what other in the group needed. In this type of situation it is is important to advocate for yourself and make sure you get what you wanted to.