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End of Season Losing Toenails?

Gidget415

Certified Ski Diva
This season I got in just over 30 days on the slopes, which was a first for me. I think my biggest year before that was around 10 days. Now, as the weather warms up and it's sandal weather in New Mexico, I realize that my big toenails were a casualty of the season. I had my new boots fitted at the Boot Doctor and checked twice, and I had plenty of room around my toe area. I also kept my toenails as short as I could. I skiied with Level 3 instructors for three weeks and I wasn't riding the back seat. I can't figure it out other than possibly not being forward enough in the beginning of the season, but I didn't have burning thighs or anything this winter.

This was the first year I really did moguls pretty much every ski day and learned to turn with the toe buttons and carve more. :smile:

In the meantime, I bought some nail polish and covered the nasty up with some sparkly pink. This will be the summer of full coverage on the nails. I hope they grow back in time for next winter or it could be uncomfortable, right?

Any advice for next year?
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
...
This was the first year I really did moguls pretty much every ski day and learned to turn with the toe buttons and carve more. :smile:
.....I had plenty of room around my toe area....
....

--I'm curious about "turning with the toe buttons." I'm not sure if this might have something to do with your toenail issue. What does it mean?
--You also say you had "plenty of room" around your toes. If you have room, then the toes can move into that room. If your toes bang/bump against the front wall or ceiling of the boot, that might push them back into the root area, which can harm or damage the roots, which could make them turn black and fall off. Tightening the bottom buckle on the cuff should hold your foot back so the toes won't travel forward, but if there's a lot of room up there in the toe box you may need some additional work on the boots to snug up the fit. Blood collecting under the nail is also a problem.

Check this out: (look up Skier's Toe for more links)
https://jillgrimesmd.com/dr-grimes-bottom-line/skiers-toe/
Also the quote below comes from this: https://www.raleighortho.com/blog/6...feet-and-ankles-and-how-to-avoid-them-part-1/

Skier’s Toe / Toe Bang
Skier’s toe, also known as toe bang (subungual hematoma), is when there is bleeding under your nail, and your toenail turns black. It happens when the ski boots are not well fitted, creating a condition where the foot smashes back and forth, leading to repetitive trauma. You may feel a great deal of pain for many days subsequent to your injury. The hematoma needs to be drained, so seek professional help immediately.


How to avoid skier’s toe?
To avoid the occurrence of skier’s toe/toe bang, get properly fitted boots – don’t borrow someone else’s pair. If renting a pair of boots at the resort, make sure to try them on and walk around for a bit before committing to a pair and hitting the slopes.
 
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Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
If that fitter is local to you, take that boot and your toe to see him!. I had toe bang from the boots being too small in width/shape. My foot is more square than the toe box in the boots. My fitter fixed that. But I went through 2 summers like you. Each foot on different summers.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
--I'm curious about "turning with the toe buttons." I'm not sure if this might have something to do with your toenail issue. What does it mean?
The idea of a "big toe button" and "little toe button" is used by some Taos instructors. It's one way to think about what to do to initiate a turn based on a very subtle movement of the foot. Has no relationship to bruised big toes under the nail.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I realize that my big toenails were a casualty of the season. I had my new boots fitted at the Boot Doctor and checked twice, and I had plenty of room around my toe area. I also kept my toenails as short as I could.
When did you first notice the discoloration? I was dealing with packed out liners and then working on re-molded Intuition liners early in the season. Bottom line is that I had a bruised toe by January. Had everything sorted out with my boots by early February. But that toe still looks off. I'm not at any risk of losing the nail but I don't expect it to look normal for quite a while.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
When did you first notice the discoloration? I was dealing with packed out liners and then working on re-molded Intuition liners early in the season. Bottom line is that I had a bruised toe by January. Had everything sorted out with my boots by early February. But that toe still looks off. I'm not at any risk of losing the nail but I don't expect it to look normal for quite a while.
Skied 5 days in Tahoe last week and the last day at Mt Rose my toes were really sore and literally took off my boots twice in the afternoon and put them back on. Think I had some serious toe bang going on after skiing really soft snow in the bumps and chutes.... also did a hike to ski in an area called Wild Card. That might have created the problem...... BTW I also have intuition liners....
 

Bookworm

Angel Diva
I had serious black toenail. Not as painful as it looks, though. I had my boots refitted and adjusted. I had too much sliding around and now that’s fixed, my few days skiing at WP felt better. Tighter fit. I hope it doesn’t take all summer to go away. I ran marathons for 4 years and never got the dreaded black toe once!
 

Gidget415

Certified Ski Diva
I think it could be from having my bottom buckle too loose. I'll go back to the Boot Doctors in Taos, who fitted me, before this season starts. I have a wide area just where my joints are for the base of the big and little toe, but then my toes are narrower. I think I tend to keep that buckle a little looser there but may need to tighten a bit and see if it holds the toes back.

Yes, the big and little toe buttons are visuals for initiating the turn with motion in the feet while keeping the shoulders facing downhill. It's not about pushing the big toe into the boot, it's more about pressure to the ski.

I also think it may be a bit of my skiing 2-6 days per winter for several years as a low to mid intermediate and then over 30 last year with moguls doing up to double blacks. I had never skied moguls before last year and became a lot more aggressive, so I may need to revisit this with the boot fitter given that I'm pushing more.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Oh, girlfriend....I so feel for you...I spent the last 2 summer with black toe/no big toe. My problem was not enough space in the forefoot for my squarish toes. So you really need to see your boot fitter. Make that appointment and go....
 

angelaskis

Certified Ski Diva
Reviving this thread because, like @Jilly I’m on season two of black big toes. I took the boots to the fitter last season after it happened...they were like well, it’s either too small or too large they did some adjustments to the top of the liner to relieve the pressure on the big toe but since I lost that nail, it was hard to tell if it did anything until now. Seems like it didn’t work so think I’ll need to find a fitter that’s closer to the resort.

Some notes I took from the podiatrist I saw after it happened - if your toenail mostly is falling off it’s better to have it removed so it doesn’t snag. Takes about 12 months for a toenail to grow back fully. As mentioned above, if you hurt the toe root too much it could permanently damage the cells that grow your nail matrix and you may not be able to ever grow a toenail again. Until then I did a bunch of bandaid/tape padding through the season to protect the bed. At this point I’m thinking that it’d be more convenient to not have toenails lol!!

These bootfitter tips are super useful though and I’ll give the top buckle tightening a try! Unfortunately I seem to have the worst bang at the root/base of my right big toe— does anyone have any other insights about the root cause (pun intended) of this?
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Reviving this thread because, like @Jilly I’m on season two of black big toes. I took the boots to the fitter last season after it happened...they were like well, it’s either too small or too large they did some adjustments to the top of the liner to relieve the pressure on the big toe but since I lost that nail, it was hard to tell if it did anything until now. Seems like it didn’t work so think I’ll need to find a fitter that’s closer to the resort.

Some notes I took from the podiatrist I saw after it happened - if your toenail mostly is falling off it’s better to have it removed so it doesn’t snag. Takes about 12 months for a toenail to grow back fully. As mentioned above, if you hurt the toe root too much it could permanently damage the cells that grow your nail matrix and you may not be able to ever grow a toenail again. Until then I did a bunch of bandaid/tape padding through the season to protect the bed. At this point I’m thinking that it’d be more convenient to not have toenails lol!!

These bootfitter tips are super useful though and I’ll give the top buckle tightening a try! Unfortunately I seem to have the worst bang at the root/base of my right big toe— does anyone have any other insights about the root cause (pun intended) of this?


I don’t have any helpful remarks as I haven’t had this issue.. I wonder though, was the bootfitter you saw able to tell you which your boot is, too small or too big?? Can you tell if you are super snug and unmoving in there, or if you are having your foot move and come forward when skiing? If it’s still happening, perhaps it doesn’t matter and it’s time to start over. There are bootfitters who are also pedorthists for example, maybe it would be beneficial to have a conversation with someone like that to see what they recommend, whether you end up going along with it or not.
 

vickie

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
they were like well, it’s either too small or too large

There are other causes for toe bang -- too much forward lean, for example. My boots had too much forward lean which the bootfitter, Jeff Bergeron, said causes one to put their weight back which, in turn, pushes the feet forward in the boots.

We also opened up the toe area of the liner to ensure that's not putting additional pressure on my toes. The liner tapered in width and in height much more than the boot shell.

Another possibility in my boots is the heel pocket not holding my heel in place. But in a 22.5, my boot choices are very limited.

So yes, "too small or too large" may be true, but which part(s)? The length? The heel pocket? The volume at the ankle? Etc. And would that be in the boot shell or the liner?

Boots are frustrating.
 

angelaskis

Certified Ski Diva
@MissySki Yah!! I was super annoyed they didn’t work with me further to try to figure out which extreme it was. That and putting me into too soft boot...not very happy w this particular shop. I think you’re right re: looking up some pedorthist bootfitters. I have tiny feet (21.5) to start so it really limits the boot options.
 

angelaskis

Certified Ski Diva
@vickie the forward lean is an interesting one. I’m definitely guilty of skiing in the backseat so that might be it. I do think I could use a bit of room up and down in the toe box, or there might be a ridge right at the big toe that it’s hitting. ‍

Time to make an appointment I guess. Please keep the intel coming! Sometimes I feel better armed with specific questions to ask.
 

vickie

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
@angelaskis, take the liners out of the boots. Put your ski socks on and put the liners on. Stand up. How are your toes while just in the liners? Any pressure anywhere -- at the ends, on top, on either side? If there is pressure from the liner, that can be relieved without modifying the boot.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
@MissySki Yah!! I was super annoyed they didn’t work with me further to try to figure out which extreme it was. That and putting me into too soft boot...not very happy w this particular shop. I think you’re right re: looking up some pedorthist bootfitters. I have tiny feet (21.5) to start so it really limits the boot options.

Where are you located?
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
Ah okay, I was going to say that my bootfitter in VT is a pedorthist if you were interested. Not very helpful that far away though.
 

angelaskis

Certified Ski Diva
Ah okay, I was going to say that my bootfitter in VT is a pedorthist if you were interested. Not very helpful that far away though.

You’ve taught me the word pedorthist! Very helpful in google searching. Looks like there are a few in Truckee at Start Haus and Tahoe Sports Hub. Will give them a call :smile:
 

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