A bit off topic, but you mentioned your Floskis. They are now recruiting ambassadors on Senior Skiing.
https://www.seniorsskiing.com/advert/on-hill-floskis-ambassadors-wanted/
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DPS Phantom base treatment, how to avoid waxing recreational skis - Notes 2020
- Thread starter marzNC
- Start date
https://www.seniorsskiing.com/advert/on-hill-floskis-ambassadors-wanted/
marzNC
Angel Diva
I wondered if Adrian was still around. He's been retired from NASA for a while so has to be well over 70, if not 75. When Bill and I demo'd Floskis with Adrian at Mammoth for two hours, it was in May and quite warm. We had to stop after a run or two to do something to make them slide better. Bill used the paste wax we had gotten at Powder Mountain the season before. Adrian used some liquid that came out of packets on my skis, which a difference for perhaps two runs.
I told Adrian then that treating with Phantom would make Floskis wonderful for spring skiing. Since it's easy to change the binding position between All-Mountain, Moguls, Powder, and Deep Powder all you need is one pair of skis. Having now played with my Phantom-treated Floskis in temps well over 40 degrees using both the All-Mountain and Moguls settings, I'll probably always bring them when I'm driving from home to ski in the southeast or mid-Atlantic when the forecast is for a warm spell. They were great when it was 65 degrees in the shade at Bryce.
The downside to Floskis is that the demo bindings and extra metal plate (shock absorber) plus wood construction makes them very heavy to carry. So I'm unlikely to ever take them when flying.
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I just spent the day on some soft spring snow with a pair of skis that I treated with Phantom this summer specifically so that I wouldn't need to wax as much in warmer weather.
Today's high temp was 40 and it was sunny all day. The snow was classic spring-corn hero snow. It was soft but not overly wet; not "mashed potato" snow, just a nice soft surface that bumped up later in the day and then became crunchy when the afternoon shadows settled in. In other words, moderate early spring conditions, in which I expected the Phantom treatment to be a benefit.
I'm afraid that I was underwhelmed; I found the performance to be inconsistent, even within a single run. I experienced a surprising amount of grabbiness and jerking in snow that was not nearly as heavy and wet as it's going to get in the next few weeks.
I purchased the Phantom during a flash sale this past summer, so it was half off the normal price, and the skis seem fine in normal winter conditions. But I'm a little bummed to find that I still need to wax for spring conditions.
Today's high temp was 40 and it was sunny all day. The snow was classic spring-corn hero snow. It was soft but not overly wet; not "mashed potato" snow, just a nice soft surface that bumped up later in the day and then became crunchy when the afternoon shadows settled in. In other words, moderate early spring conditions, in which I expected the Phantom treatment to be a benefit.
I'm afraid that I was underwhelmed; I found the performance to be inconsistent, even within a single run. I experienced a surprising amount of grabbiness and jerking in snow that was not nearly as heavy and wet as it's going to get in the next few weeks.
I purchased the Phantom during a flash sale this past summer, so it was half off the normal price, and the skis seem fine in normal winter conditions. But I'm a little bummed to find that I still need to wax for spring conditions.
Tennessee
Angel Diva
Did you notice if anyone else was experiencing the “grabbiness”? Sometimes it’s not your skis but the snow — other patrollers I used to work with always said it was something from the groomers (or something like that?) that was messing up the snow when it jerked like that. Very annoying and hard to ski. They said no wax could help. They might have been just too lazy to wax, lol!
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Could be, though that's usually later in the spring when it's really wet. This was the type of super-fun snow I don't usually have issues with.
MissySki
Angel Diva
hmmmm that’s the total opposite experience I’ve had with Phantom in spring snow.. and I don’t add any wax for spring skiing. I’ve specifically had people ask me why I don’t seem to be having as much of an issue as they are with grabbiness some days. I’ve also been on some trails where everyone (including me) felt like it was total velcro and nothing seemed to help. So definitely not a silver bullet.
There are so many variable to this though that I think it’s hard to pinpoint a cause unless you ski on that same day with a spring waxed ski versus your Phantom waxed ski to compare. The slope, snow, equipment, technique.. all play a role in people’s issues on a spring snow day.
There are so many variable to this though that I think it’s hard to pinpoint a cause unless you ski on that same day with a spring waxed ski versus your Phantom waxed ski to compare. The slope, snow, equipment, technique.. all play a role in people’s issues on a spring snow day.
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marzNC
Angel Diva
Have never heard of a "bad batch" but there were issues with Version 1 when a DIY cure wasn't complete. That required 3 hours of sunlight. But people in the PacNW who tried to treat their skis during the winter had issues because the natural sunlight UV wasn't strong enough. I treated my AJs in January in my front yard in NC . . . with snow on the ground . . . and didn't have a problem.
There was no difference on the box when Version 2 with A/B packets came out. No expiration date. The difference was in the directions, which shifted to only needing an hour in sunlight to cure. Supposedly any temp over 30 was okay.
The current version only requires one application. It was first used by ski shops with a Cure Station. Then it was what came in DIY kits.
SallyCat
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've since read around for more reviews now that it's more widely used. It seems to be oft/generally reported that the DPS is a fine replacement for universal wax for recreational skiers (non-racers), but that it can be inconsistent in very-cold and very-warm temps. Good to know that you can wax over it I guess, but it seems to deflate their "never wax again" claims.
Edit: I applied it in July, on an very hot, sunny day. The process was straightforward and I don't think there was any issue with the application.
Edit: I applied it in July, on an very hot, sunny day. The process was straightforward and I don't think there was any issue with the application.
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marzNC
Angel Diva
Phantom is being included in the 2021 Dreamtime sale, which ends mid-August. $85 for the DIY kit instead of $99 buying from the DPS website.
Not sure any new Cure Stations will exist this fall given the pandemic. Can use the Dealer Locator on the DPS website to look.
Boston Divas had more Cure Station options in late 2019.
www.theskidiva.com
Not sure any new Cure Stations will exist this fall given the pandemic. Can use the Dealer Locator on the DPS website to look.
Boston Divas had more Cure Station options in late 2019.
Phantom Wax (finally near Boston)
So I did it! I found out that RJ Bradley's in Littleton, MA (near Nashoba) just got the Phantom system. My skis are probably in the box right now. Just wanted to let you all know that they have it. Happy skiing!
www.theskidiva.com
marzNC
Angel Diva
Looks like DPS has added a Polishing Pad as an optional purchase. Pretty much the same as a plastic scrub pad would be my guess. What was more interesting is the idea that "If the structure of the base becomes damaged or severely abraded, or if a base is unable to be restored to a smooth, polished state by using a PHANTOM Polishing Pad, a base grind is recommended."
I treated my old BPs at home (2011, bought used from a Diva in 2012) with Phantom 2.0 just before the 2018-19 season. I did a stone grind for the first time ever in Jan 2020. They will be rock skis for some time to come when I'm driving for a ski trip.
I treated my old BPs at home (2011, bought used from a Diva in 2012) with Phantom 2.0 just before the 2018-19 season. I did a stone grind for the first time ever in Jan 2020. They will be rock skis for some time to come when I'm driving for a ski trip.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Since @tinymoose asked about Phantom on race skis in another thread, thought it was better to answer here.
Since there is no issue with putting wax on bases treated with Phantom, there are racers who like to do that. When the race wax wears off, they still have better glide than on an untreated base. Since the base material is a bit harder, in theory the skis could last a bit longer too. I don't race. But the subject came up during the tour of the DPS factory in SLC I was lucky to be part of a few years ago.
Another reason a recreational skier might want to wax on top of Phantom bases is if the temperature is really frigid, meaning under 0 degrees. Assuming of course they are the hardy type who still want to go skiing all day long. I've skied in single digits and that's about as cold as I'm willing to deal with.
Since there is no issue with putting wax on bases treated with Phantom, there are racers who like to do that. When the race wax wears off, they still have better glide than on an untreated base. Since the base material is a bit harder, in theory the skis could last a bit longer too. I don't race. But the subject came up during the tour of the DPS factory in SLC I was lucky to be part of a few years ago.
Another reason a recreational skier might want to wax on top of Phantom bases is if the temperature is really frigid, meaning under 0 degrees. Assuming of course they are the hardy type who still want to go skiing all day long. I've skied in single digits and that's about as cold as I'm willing to deal with.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Well, there is a deal for Phantom DIY right now . . . in Australia.
Found a review posted during the summer. Get the feeling the reviewer wasn't expecting that much but was very happy with the performance in warm conditions on the lower mountain. Spring skiing is definitely when I'm very happy to have Phantom on all but my powder skis.
July 2021
snowbrains.com
Found a review posted during the summer. Get the feeling the reviewer wasn't expecting that much but was very happy with the performance in warm conditions on the lower mountain. Spring skiing is definitely when I'm very happy to have Phantom on all but my powder skis.
July 2021
Gear Review: DPS PHANTOM Permanent Base Treatment - SnowBrains
Almost 2 years ago, Salt Lake City based DPS Skis made waves through the ski community. They had made a permanent alternative to ski wax. So, what was the big deal? Well, this base treatment was nothing like ordinary ski wax.
snowbrains.com
gingerjess
Angel Diva
I'm surprised how few people I know IRL know about Phantom—even hardcore skiers. I've started evangelizing it to pretty much everyone I know.
marzNC
Angel Diva
In the northeast, most people don't even know that DPS is a ski company. So it's been a very slow process to get shops to get interested. Ski Essentials was an early adopter, so that made a difference in the first couple seasons.
I think the hardcore skiers will be some of the hardest to convince. That's because they know all about waxing. The target market for Phantom are people who pay for waxing. If they do wax at home, they don't bother to own three different kinds of wax to cover different temperature ranges.
Phantom is designed to be as good as universal wax. In warm spring conditions it because much easier to convince people to consider Phantom. While a good warm temperature wax might be better, it won't last more than half-a-day. Meanwhile Phantom glide is much more consistent even when snow is sticky.
Iwannaski
Angel Diva
So, it’s definitely too late for me to Phantom this year (but the skis are Renouns, and I wasn’t going to phantom until I skied them and knew I wanted to keep them anyway).
What I did realize is that the season rentals are going to need to be waxed, so I might as well teach myself to wax on my kids’ skis. LOL.
REI has introduced a program where they machine wax for free for members, but I don’t want to have to go EVERY outing to get my skis waxed.
Then this summer, I’ll Phantom my skis for sure. Our fave hill is almost all man made snow, so waxing would be a Sisyphean task.
What I did realize is that the season rentals are going to need to be waxed, so I might as well teach myself to wax on my kids’ skis. LOL.
REI has introduced a program where they machine wax for free for members, but I don’t want to have to go EVERY outing to get my skis waxed.
Then this summer, I’ll Phantom my skis for sure. Our fave hill is almost all man made snow, so waxing would be a Sisyphean task.
Ski Sine Fine
Angel Diva
That’s for sure. I remember having to machine wax at Whitetail after two runs, and the machine wax lasted two more runs. All man-made snow and spring conditions. Next season I phantom’d and never waxed since.
