Do you use Heel Lifts

[Margaritamarcia]

So about 6 weeks ago I went to an evening with Jeannie Thorens at Ski Haus in Salem, NH and she was a blast!!!!! I had been skiing on a little bit of lifts in my heels in order to help compensate for some knock-kneed skiing ( sad, but true). Jeannie did some knee stability testing and stance observation on me and recommended lifts.

Fast Forward to Epic Ski Acad. this past w/e in Stowe. I am skiing with Weems as my coach, and on the video review, Stu Campbell, my coach from last December calls me over. He says to me, "So what else is different for you other than those lifts Jeannie put in?" I proudly said, "Well, I upgraded my boots!" I, of course thought he was going to compliment me but, instead, he said, "I don't like how you are standing in the boots. Would you be willing to take a run tomorrow without them?" "Of course, Stu."

So I tell Weems what Stu said, they talk about it and Weems agrees that I seem to be a little in the backseat and he wants to see me ski without them, too. Out come the lifts and, with a little sloshiness in my heels, I go down the hill. Weems informs me that I can put the lifts back in because it isn't the lifts that are the problem. I am thinking that I was wishing it were the lifts that put me back instead of me! He thinks I need about 1/8 inch grinded off at the least.

Monday, a small group of hangers-on ski a few runs with Benny the Bootfitter. He LOVES Jeannie, but doesn't like my lifts. He also wants to adjust my cuffs due to the knock knees (there we go again!)

We stop in at Inner Boots to take him up on grinding down the lifts. When he takes them out he was shocked at how big they are. He immediately goes in back and gets me the new Jeannie Thorens standard issue lifts which are 1/2 the height of the ones installed when I met with her 6 weeks ago. Cuffs adjusted too.

Boots feel good. We'll see how I do on the hill sometime soon when there is a bit of snow (perhaps Christmas eve day at Sunapee).

QUESTION: What do you think of heel lifts and do you or have you used them. How big are they and how much of a difference in your stance have you noticed?

 

[Little Lightning]

Yes, my boot fitter put a 1/4" heel lift in my boots. The reason was that it would make my stance more stable. She put one in my left boot and had me flex foreward, my knee aligned nicely over my toes with no "wobble". Then she had me flex foreward with my right knee without the heel lift in my boot and there was a definite "wobble".

When I skied with them I could definitely tell a difference.

However, remember that little curve in the lower back that Jeannie talked about. I don't believe that heel lifts changes that and here's why.

Last Wed. my ski instructor had each of us ski behind her and she gave us each pointers. Mine was to "move my hips forward" which means flatten that little curve in the lower back.

I did that and I could really tell a difference.

Later, they video taped us on a blue, very mogully run. I was so embarrassed when I saw the tape. I was sitting way back, fighting every turn, traversing instead of skiing the bumps. I knew it was fear and not technique. Bumps and steeps are my waterloo.

Monday, we went to Ski Cooper, an intermediate ski area, the blacks are blue, and practiced moving my hips forward. It's a slight movement but really makes a difference because the uphill ski releases and moves into its turn. If you're doing it correctly, you can feel the ski release.

Yesterday, I skied a few hours at Copper. Not convinced that this would help me in bumps and powder, I headed up Sierra lift to try it out. Wow! the skis sliced right though the powder, though bumps, whatever I did.

On a bump run my partner said "that I motored right though it" and he often commented on how relaxed I was on the steeps.

For me, "moving my hips forward" is the missing link in my skiing.

Kathi

 

[homemaker]

I understand putting one in if you have one leg shorter (not uncommon) but I don't understand how two heel lifts could be the best way to solve a problem.
The boots are constructed to work best with your heel in the normal place, aren't they? With your heel lifted how could the heel cup hold your foot securely?
If a bootfitter adds lifts wouldn't she/he also change the shape of the boot to accommodate?

 

[Margaritamarcia]

Heel Lifts

Heel lifts in one foot have to do with leg length. The two put in have to do with a woman's hips and body stance which is different that a man's. All women's boots come with lifts now. Is supposed to help with rising the hips more forward. But, as I understand it, many women will still compensate by sitting in the backseat. I am working on rising up and forward to counteract my own tendency to sit back. The lifts allow me more stability in the knees, aligning them better over the feet. I am sure there will be better technical descriptions forthcoming (I hope). Jeannie Thorens is the major woman's voice in this argument. Some people feel she is too much "one answer for everyone" but I think she has a point. You should look up what she has to say. Just Google her and you will get a whole other perspective. She is a hoot and quite an accomplished athlete.

 

[smpayne]

I understand putting one in if you have one leg shorter (not uncommon) but I don't understand how two heel lifts could be the best way to solve a problem.
The boots are constructed to work best with your heel in the normal place, aren't they? With your heel lifted how could the heel cup hold your foot securely?
If a bootfitter adds lifts wouldn't she/he also change the shape of the boot to accommodate?

My mother is a prime example of odd feet. She complained for years that she couldn't wear tennis shoes because the gave her blisters on her heels. One day I finally took a good look at her feet in relation to mine and realized that she had a really short heal, her ankle started about 1/4" or more before mine. I suggested she try them with the heel cups she had. She did and was amazed that the solution was so easy. Now she puts them in all her shoes.

Not everyones foot fits the "standard" mold the boot manufactures use and what works for one person won't work for the next. I think many times it is more the case of changing a person's foot to accomodate the boot.

 

[Margaritamarcia]

boots/feet/lifts

I don't see it as changing the feet (sounds like Chinese binding of feet) as changing the foot's position in the boot. Sometimes you blow the shell or liner out; sometimes you add padding, or grind out an area. That's an interesting story about heel cups and your mother. With really well fitted boots the sock will make adifference in the feel. It always blows my mind when people can wear those little toesie heater pads in their boots. Mine would NOT ALLOW the addition of them. Hence the electronic heaters which I need if it is below 30 degrees. Turn them on when on the chair and off when skiing unless it is really cold.

 

[Jilly]

I had heel lifts for years in my boots. The lifts help me move over my skis when the skis were the straight versions. I would get cramps and a burning sensation on the bottom of my feet. I was stretching the arch and bottom of my feet to keep over the skis. The lifts were about 1/4" I still have them, but don't use them now. I was skiing at a clinic with the level 4's and the comment was made that I was too far foreward. When the instructor asked if I had heel lifts, I was told to remove them and ski. Much better. I still ski too far forward, but that is a stance problem (from the 80's) now and not the lifts. So it depends on your problem - foot, achilles tendon or calf muscle whether you need them or not.

 

[Little Lightning]

Jeannie Thoren's reasoning for heel lifts is that women don't bend at the ankles the same way men do. She claims that women have a shorter, less flexible calf muscle, therefore, women don't bend at the knees and ankles the same as men so they bend at the waist to get their weight forward. She did admit that some men have this problem and could also benefit from heel lifts.

After my instructor told me to "move my hips forward" I took a look at myself in the mirror. When I squat the lower part of my back curves. The lower the squat the more curve I get and the farther back my hips fall. If I squat with a flat back my hips, shoulders and knees are better aligned. With a flat back I can squat pretty low without my hips dropping behind me.

Today I skied a powder run, about 8"-10" with little bumps. My SO said I could bail if I wanted but I didn't find the bail out. When I began my turn, I flattened my lower back. The skis turned right though the powder and I could go right into my next turn. I could ski about 1/3rd of the run without stopping. My quads didn't burn, I didn't "fight" the powder like I usually do. I skied the fall line without struggling. As the snow got deeper I really had to use my abs to hold the position. I enjoyed the run so much that I skied it 3 more times.

I keep reading that one uses their hamstrings when skiing but I used my quads. I can't remember my qlutes or hams feeling tired from skiing. Now that I'm aligning myself over my skis I'm really feeling my hamstrings and quads. I feel my skis underneath me, not ahead of me. Interestly, I was getting very tired, we were skiing to the bottom. I had instructors who told me to use my upper body to turn, hands down the hill etc. As soon as I did that I lost my center and felt my bottom fall backwards.

I do plant my poles but I'm finding that if I make my moves from my core instead of my arms, I ski more effectively and efficiently.

I can't answer the question if heel lifts help or hurt because I started all this after the heel lifts. They do make my boots feel more comfortable. I do know that when I started thinking about skiing from my "core" and not thinking about my feet, knees or arms I've become more relaxed, turning better, skiing faster and less tired.

Kathi

 

[Margaritamarcia]

Heel lifts

POWDER!!! AHhhhhhh....sounds wonderful. I hear Colorado got 1 foot today.

Anyway...what you said is exactly what I am trying to focus on as well. My thighs do get very tired and burning sensations are the norm when I don't get up and forward from the hips. Core is so important usually, not even talking about powder. I am going to redouble my workout efforts before Aspen Epic Ski to really try and maximize that trip. We have another trip planned in Feb. to Tahoe, so it's key to keep these thoughts in mind and exercises alive.

 

[Little Lightning]

What I'm talking about is a slight tilt of your hips forward. It's the same as laying on the floor and flattening your back to the floor.

A very good exercise is to lay on a foam roller, or the floor, and raise your legs and march, raising and lowering your legs to the floor. I do 30 reps, both legs. It's important to keep your back flat. It really works the lower back.

So far, most of the snow is hitting Denver and the eastern plains. The southern ski areas got dumped on yesterday. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Summit county.

Kathi

 

[Margaritamarcia]

Tilt

Ah, a pelvic tilt. I just tried out putting together the tilt and then the up and forward stuff I am working on. Core, core, core. I will try your exercise and post back in a few days re: that.

Thanks.

 

[Little Lightning]

I just use the tilt with a neutral stance. I find that I can reach out with my poles better. In Jan. we resume the Women's Wed. and I'll let you know if my instructor recommends anything else.

The exercises are harder on a foam roller. Also, breathe in and pull your belly button to your spine. When things got tricky in the powder that helped to keep me from losing my position.

It's such a slight movement but gives me a really powerful stance.

Have fun!

Kathi

 

[Margaritamarcia]

tilt

Thanks. I'll let you know. I think the marching exercise, while tilting will be great! Tomorrow I am booked solidly from 9am-6 pm, but Friday I will begin my gym workouts again with vigor (or as they say in Boston, "Vigah.;) "

 

[Lynn]

I was also told by Jeannie Thoren to put heel lifts in my ski boots. This was based on nothing more than her opinion, no evaluation of my personal characteristics. She said that everywoman needed heel lifts.
That just didn't sound right to me.
It so happens that I have quite a bit of flexibility in my ankle leaning forward and would not need a heel lift based on that. However, canting was definitely in order for the knockneed legs!

 

[volklgirl]

Well, I never would have guessed that I have a problem with dorsiflexion....With all the Yoga I do, I figured I was pretty flxible all over.

Went back the the boot fitter today since my boots have begun to pack out, and I was having issues with my heels lifting and sliding forward and out everytime I tried to drive my boot cuffs forward. How frustrating!!

He looked closely at my feet and had me flex and extend. He said "Hmmmm, I didn't catch that before." Huhn??? He grabbed a set of heel lifts and taped them to the foot board (under the liners), then slipped the liners back in. There seems to be something with the depth of my heel and the depth of Lange heel and ankle pockets. I remember having lifts when I had Langes before, too.

Wow! Slop all gone!! Problems driving the SL skis tonight (in ankle deep corn piles) all gone! Yay!!

 

[SnowHot]

Monday, a small group of hangers-on ski a few runs with Benny the Bootfitter. He LOVES Jeannie, but doesn't like my lifts. He also wants to adjust my cuffs due to the knock knees (there we go again!)

We stop in at Inner Boots to take him up on grinding down the lifts. When he takes them out he was shocked at how big they are. He immediately goes in back and gets me the new Jeannie Thorens standard issue lifts which are 1/2 the height of the ones installed when I met with her 6 weeks ago. Cuffs adjusted too.

Boots feel good. We'll see how I do on the hill sometime soon when there is a bit of snow (perhaps Christmas eve day at Sunapee).

QUESTION: What do you think of heel lifts and do you or have you used them. How big are they and how much of a difference in your stance have you noticed?

I missed an opportunity to go to a Jeanie Thorens event with volklgirl in the fall. I wish I'd gone, but sometimes life gets in the way.

As for Benny.........I think he's great, but as with any bootfitter, I think you need to live close enough to be able to go to the same guy for any necessary tweeking.
I know I feel better in my boots after my visit to his shop.
I don't have heel lifts, wish I could help.

BTW
It was great skiing with you Monday! We have to do it again!

 

[Margaritamarcia]

Heel Lifts and Benny the Bootfitter

I couldn't agree more on all counts. I would LOVE to ski with you again soon, but not in MN! Sorry, what you all must consider packed powder would scare the ____out of me.

I can't wait to tell my own bootfitter, Mark (the Magnificent) about what ocurred at Stowe. He wasn't there when Jeannie put in those honkin' lifts. It was at the other Ski Haus store that the Thorens clinic was held. He knew about the lifts but not the height of them. I actually think he will be pleased with what Benny did.

You know, I find boot fitters, as a general rule, engage in pissing contests about what they do. I would say my fitter, Mark, refrains from this. But I see this alot at various clinics and mountain shops. I overhear conversations from fitters to "clients" and there is a lot of "Well, I would not have done THAT. I would have done THIS."
Kind of interesting.

We had the great opportunity of skiing a few runs last year at Sunday River with Mark and he got to see all our skiing after years of selling us equipment and fittings of boot . His feedback was invaluable and it helped him guide us towards boots for our daughter and me, and validated her choice of skis (Burnin' Luvs, of course).

Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzachannukah, and Happy, healthy, snowy New Year. If only we could get all these warring nations to ski together.

Marcia

 

[Thatsagirl]

I am lucky. Benny the bootfitter happens to be MY bootfitter since I live up here. I've gone to him for about 9 years now. It's absolutely true that it's best to be able to live near the person who fits your boots since they sometimes need to be tweaked and that person knows the reasoning behind the "fixes" they're trying. I think the thing about bootfitting is it's part science, part intuition and part art. That's why you get different opinions about what the "best fix" is.

Interestingly enough, I do not have heel lifts, I have TOE lifts. Not the fix for "most women," but it's exactly what I need. I am not so sure that if I'd gone to anyone other than Benny, that this solution would have even been considered simply because "common wisdom" is to give women heel lifts. That's why it's so important to have someone who can look at your stance and see what's REALLY going on.

Thatsagirl

 

[volklgirl]

WOW! You've got "gas pedals"! Awesome.

How do you like them?

 

[Margaritamarcia]

Toe lifts

Yes, Benny had initially suggested the possibility of toe lifts when he saw me on snow, but, in the shop, said "No." I have yet to ski with the new, lower lifts. Can't wait!