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Do you ski closed trails?
- Thread starter ski diva
- Start date
I'm of 2 minds here. Usually trails are closed for a good reason. But sometimes they are closed because some yahoo decided to keep it for himself and his buddies. So generally I would stay off a closed trail, except when a group of us decide that its a yahoo that keeping it closed. So I have skied them!!
I had, by "mistake". ;)
Granted, a lot of times, the trails were closed because there's not enough snow. So it's pretty obvious I wouldn't care to go down it.
Other times, it's closed because the lift down there was broken (or not operating)! I'm ok at skating, but not at climbing without skin. As a result, I stay away from most of those closed trails...
But if the snow looks good and I know the coverage should be good, and it goes back into the same base area, what's the harm?
Granted, a lot of times, the trails were closed because there's not enough snow. So it's pretty obvious I wouldn't care to go down it.
Other times, it's closed because the lift down there was broken (or not operating)! I'm ok at skating, but not at climbing without skin. As a result, I stay away from most of those closed trails...
But if the snow looks good and I know the coverage should be good, and it goes back into the same base area, what's the harm?
My feeling is that if a trail is closed, it's closed for a reason -- which may not always be apparent til you're on it, at which point it may be too late. So I stay away.
Plus if something happened to me, I'd hate to cause the patrollers to go through all the trouble of a rescue -- particularly since I'd been doing something I shouldn't have been doing in the first place. It's time consuming and puts them at risk. Which in my opinion, seems rather selfish on the part of the skier.
Plus if something happened to me, I'd hate to cause the patrollers to go through all the trouble of a rescue -- particularly since I'd been doing something I shouldn't have been doing in the first place. It's time consuming and puts them at risk. Which in my opinion, seems rather selfish on the part of the skier.
Around here, if something is closed, it's due to avalanche danger. If you go in there, you're not only risking your own life, but a lot of other lives (both in that others will have to go in to rescue you and you could trigger an avalanche that runs out onto an open area.) It's not even a matter of your pass getting pulled - here, they can arrest you. (Just like if you go outside during interlodge.)
Now - ducking a rope to get from one open area to another open area? Yeah, I do that. But not into closed areas, ever.
(We do hike and ski early season before they open, but they announce that it's officially closed for avy control at some point and you just have to watch for that and go elsewhere.)
Now - ducking a rope to get from one open area to another open area? Yeah, I do that. But not into closed areas, ever.
(We do hike and ski early season before they open, but they announce that it's officially closed for avy control at some point and you just have to watch for that and go elsewhere.)
Sheena
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Generally, I am of the mind set that if a trail is closed, it is closed for a reason. Around the mid-atlantic, trails are closed because they are just plain unskiable, and would do considerable damage to my skis if I tried. Any trails out west, I would not even think it is worth the risk.
Regarding ski patrol "saving" a slope...
Around here this happens a lot. And you'll hear a lot of people bitching about the ski patrol "saving it for the weekend" or "being lazy and not opening it".
The one thing to take into consideration is that when we get a lot of snow on a run/snowpack that isn't very stable - sure - they could blast the hell out of it and open up a big field of avalanche debris for the public to ski. Gee isn't that fun (when an avy slides, the snow heats up and then refreezes when it stops, so you get huge chunks of nasty crud that used to be powder). OR - they can let it settle for an extra day, and then control it and be able to open up a beautiful bowl full of powder.
I know, I suffer from the itch too. And it's painful to see a beatiful untouched slope just sitting there... but it's worse when you see the whole thing slide and then no one gets to ski that powder. (And God forbid someone did sneak out there and get caught in an avy...)
Anyway, my feeling is that if you can't follow the openings and closures established by the ski patrol - don't ski at the resorts! There is plenty of backcountry around, and I always want to tell the people who second-guess ski patrol that if you know so much, why aren't you just out touring where you can make your own decisions? (You can even take the lifts and then go out the backcountry gates at most resorts around here.)
Around here this happens a lot. And you'll hear a lot of people bitching about the ski patrol "saving it for the weekend" or "being lazy and not opening it".
The one thing to take into consideration is that when we get a lot of snow on a run/snowpack that isn't very stable - sure - they could blast the hell out of it and open up a big field of avalanche debris for the public to ski. Gee isn't that fun (when an avy slides, the snow heats up and then refreezes when it stops, so you get huge chunks of nasty crud that used to be powder). OR - they can let it settle for an extra day, and then control it and be able to open up a beautiful bowl full of powder.
I know, I suffer from the itch too. And it's painful to see a beatiful untouched slope just sitting there... but it's worse when you see the whole thing slide and then no one gets to ski that powder. (And God forbid someone did sneak out there and get caught in an avy...)
Anyway, my feeling is that if you can't follow the openings and closures established by the ski patrol - don't ski at the resorts! There is plenty of backcountry around, and I always want to tell the people who second-guess ski patrol that if you know so much, why aren't you just out touring where you can make your own decisions? (You can even take the lifts and then go out the backcountry gates at most resorts around here.)
Ugh, I wish the season would start already so if people want to whine, they'll at least be whining based on facts. Isn't it November yet??
(Not to imply that you were whining, but you should see how people are reacting to this news on kzone.)
I have the feeling that no matter what Killington does, people are going to complain. I know they're doing some things that are kind of unpopular (limiting the days Pico is open, laying off people), but the resort is in a tremendous financial hole, and I think they have to make some hard choices to turn things around. I agree -- I wish people would just wait and see what happens.
Getting back on topic -- I actually think they're totally within their rights to pull someone's pass if they want. It's their playground, so they make the rules. And if someone breaks them, they have to be prepared to pay the consequences. Ski areas face tremendous liability issues, so I'm not surprised they're playing hardball on this.
Native Vail Gal
Banned
No. I'm an inbounds girl now. (Haven't always been that way though).
With regard to Killington, I don't and won't have a season pass. So at worst it's just a day pass. Would I ski something closed there? Yes, if it's skiable. There's no avy danger to speak of.
Up until this year, I've never THOUGHT about skiing closed trails. Trails are usually closed because there's not enough snow! So why bother? Out west, there's no reason either. There're so much inbound open area I was never tempted.
But this year, I've been up there right after the storm TWICE! On a Friday, no less. And they (Killington) "saved" half of their terrain by not running 2/3 of their lifts!!! Knowing the trail layout well enough, and on rental (demo) skis, I did the unthinkable. And was happy as a clam!
I hate to say it, but being a woman, I know I can get away by pretending to be lost... After all, we're notorous for being directionally challenged, aren't we? ;)
Up until this year, I've never THOUGHT about skiing closed trails. Trails are usually closed because there's not enough snow! So why bother? Out west, there's no reason either. There're so much inbound open area I was never tempted.
But this year, I've been up there right after the storm TWICE! On a Friday, no less. And they (Killington) "saved" half of their terrain by not running 2/3 of their lifts!!! Knowing the trail layout well enough, and on rental (demo) skis, I did the unthinkable. And was happy as a clam!
I hate to say it, but being a woman, I know I can get away by pretending to be lost... After all, we're notorous for being directionally challenged, aren't we? ;)
I have too many kids and too many clients to take a chance on ducking a rope. If I crave more terrain, then I do my best to head to a bigger mountain.
marta
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I get to ski closed trails all the time as a patrol ranger when we do opening sweep. But I warn against poachers skiing closed trails, and would never do it at another mountain. There are way too many dangers that you wouldn't be able to see from the trailhead and/or avoid further down the trail. Blue ice, exposed rocks, tree stumps, sink holes, crevasses, bears, whatever. Trails that have had snowmaking on them often are sticky surfaced and impossible to ski when ungroomed, or have hoses and equipment everywhere. I've even found poachers skiing a trail right after I've finished sweeping it for the day. I tell them if something had happened to them after a run was closed for the day, they'd be stuck waiting for help all night long until morning opening sweep. And yes we pull passes for poachers, often forming a line of patrollers across the bottom of a trail to nail them all!
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The only closed trails I've ever skied have been when I was with my brother or another patroller.
The others are right: you don't know why the trail is closed. It might be for something benign, but it might not.
Plus, if you are injured (perhaps more likely if the trail is closed due to something dangerous), who's going to find you?
The others are right: you don't know why the trail is closed. It might be for something benign, but it might not.
Plus, if you are injured (perhaps more likely if the trail is closed due to something dangerous), who's going to find you?
first lift last call
Certified Ski Diva
I don't ski closed trails - in Europe they are usually closed for a reason, either because there isn't enough snow and you will wreck your skis, or because there's too much and you are liable to get squished by an avalanche. I apply the rule that I am very cautious when skiing off piste and if someone who knows more than me says "don't ski that bit", I don't ski it. Hence, if a patroller has said "don't ski this run" - I don't. Just because something is normally a marked piste or trail doesn't mean it will be safe. But then, that's just me, maybe I'm missing out on something?
Quiver Queen
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Over the last couple of years Killington had cut so many positions and employee hours runs were often closed simply because there weren't enough people to set them up, groom them, and patrol them, lifts were not running because of the fuel and liftie expense on low-attendance days, and lifts were purposely running slow because of a fuel consumption differential. Hopefully some of the changes the new owners are making will result in reversal of the trend.
sibhusky
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
There's "closed" and then there's "out of bounds". I might do out of bounds if it's right near the in-bounds skiing, but never go too far out of bounds even if with other skiers. I never ski a closed trail and frankly last year there was a trail open that I got on and it should have been closed! I was really pissed, it was groomed about half way into its 3 miles and suddenly it was a disaster with rocks and ice! Once I got through it I yelled at the liftie about it and went back up the hill to complain to ski patrol. By the time I got off the lift it was posted as closed. It must have accidentally not been closed after the groomer went down is all I can think. I guess they got down it, found inadequate cover to groom it, and then headed back up without putting up the closed line. Anyway, around here there is usually a good reason for closures and I've never seen a case where it was "saved" for some reason other than a pending race. Of course, we're a destination resort and visitors get pissed even about race closures.
