Do ski shops treat women differently?

[cyn]

I've been meaning to submit this topic to the Divas for some time.

I have had several negative experiences with ski and rental shop people who treated me with less respect than they treated my husband, and while I hate to get into that "it's because I'm a woman" thing, that's the only reason I can think of. I must mention that I have also had many positive interactions with people in ski shops, but the bad ones still really annoy me.

Here are just four of many experiences:

Example one: Ski Market, a few years ago: My husband and I are both buying top of the line ski boots. A salesman gives me the pair I asked to try on and walks away, telling me to "just wear them for a few minutes". My husband gets his pair, while the same salesman hovers, helping him into the boots, asking whether they need additional tweaking, offering the name of their bootfitter etc. I have never returned to Ski Market, and I will not shop there again.

Example two: A ski mountain in New Hampshire: My husband and I arrive at the rental place to try high performance skis. He gets tons of personalized attention and "gear talk", and I am completely ignored.
The rental guy would not even make eye contact with me.

Example 3: Fernie, BC. My husband and I both rent performance skis. We return them after 3 hours because we are not happy with them. He is told that the skis weren't right for the day's conditions, while I am told that my "skill level" probably wasn't sufficient for the skis I had chosen.

Example four: Demo day at Mt. Snow: There are tons of skis, but all of them are in men's lengths. I am ski shopping, but the K2 and Volkl booths have nothing under 172. I ask why and am told that those companies had brought only shorter women-specific skis and there were no unisex skis in my length. Finally, at the end of the row of demo booths, I found the Elan guy, who not only had skis in my size, he actually cared what I thought about them when I brought them back. Guess what? I ended up buying those skis.

Has anyone else had these kinds of experiences?

 

[ski diva]

Oooooooh yeah. You are definitely not alone.

We had a thread about that a while back. But feel free to continue the discussion here.

 

[Jilly]

Oh ya - Too many to mention. And I've watched the same thing happen. Its when I pull out my CSIA instructor card, the attitude changes sometimes. Or sometimes I just get mad and go into gear head talk. I find the box stores the worst. They are not really interested in selling ski stuff to start with, so if you take more than 2 minutes of their time, you start to get attitude. Locally we have 2 box sport stores and 4 independants -1 is strictly hockey in the winter, soccer/baseball in the summer. The other 2 are bike shops and with my buddy the local ski shop. He does not ignore anybody that comes in and if you're working, you can't either. Even the sales reps that come to give PK sessions, don't like giving them to the box stores. So if you must use a box store, don't let them do, what was it "skis for the little lady?" attitude. Keep up with us on the latest stuff and go in armed for battle!!

 

[altagirl]

My personal experience has been that if I'm in ski gear - I get treated well. If I'm at a shop in town and wearing something else - I get treated like crap. I asked the price on a pair of Big Stix 106 at a shop in town and the guy told me "You can't ski those." I ignored him and said "How much do they cost?" and he said you should really look at these Bandit X's... and I left and bought the 106's online. Idiot.

But when I'm up demoing gear on the mountain, or when I go into a shop in my ski gear, I get treated like I know what I'm doing. It's like I'm wearing a uniform of sorts - I have on Arc'teryx and a helmet and the shop guys assume I want a unisex fat ski in at least a 177cm length, probably 90mm plus underfoot minimum, a lot more if it's a powder day. If I'm wearing normal clothes they think I want a 160cm beginner women's ski and will proceed to argue with me if I disagree.

I don't know why it's so hard to ask a few questions instead of basing judgements solely on appearance.

And if I buy anything at a box store, it's just because I know EXACTLY what I want and just go buy it cheap. And other than REI, I probably wouldn't even set foot into one.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

Oh yeah!

When this happens.....all I have to do is remind myself that I AM SKIING....and they work there! :D

Makes all the difference! Heck....I've been skiing longer than MANY of them have been alive!

On another note.....Christy Sports here in Colorado has female reps who are WONDERFUL....and very helpful! No condescending tone there at all!

 

[Little Lightning]

No, because I shop at Outdoor Divas here in Denver and Boulder. All women employees with the exception of 1 male, part owner. The women are knowledgeable employees and have had training on boot fitting, etc. The male owner is an awesome boot fitter.

Products are top of the line, prices competitive. Last year they dropped the prices of skis and boots to 40% off before the big shops did.

My friend needed a size 3 ski boot and couldn't find anything at the "big" stores. Outdoor Divas went out of their way to find a boot that fit her. They were able to find one for her because they have lots of connections in the business and cared enough to find one that worked for her.

Down side is they do not carry unisex skis, however, because of their experience and dedication to finding equipment for women in all sports I will continue to buy from them.

Kathi

 

[abc]

I guess I don't know. I never go into a store with a guy so there's no comparison. More over, I can be pretty pushy when I need to be... I get attention when I want them.

I also like to chat with the shop guy so I purposely choose to go in when they're not busy. Most times, they're happy to just talk with me to pass the time. And the topic slowly changes into focus and they're all mine! ;)

It's not fair we don't get "proper" attention from the male sales. But we have other powers we can use... "unfair advantage" on our side.:D

 

[ISki]

Yes, almost always. Like Rodney Dangerfield, I don't get no respect.

 

[Kimmyt]

Yes, I've had this happen to me at many different types of gear-stores. Sometimes when I go into a gear shop like that I feel like I'm car shopping. I hate car-shopping. When I feel like I'm being treated poorly I get sullen. I get angry and sulky (I don't like when I get like this) and usually I lose all interest in buying things from that store. After a few instances of this I'll stop going into a store, but usually I give them a few chances.

Oddly enough, I've found that I'm often treated the best by older men in their 50's and up. Normally I'd think these men would be most likely to treat me badly, since they're pretty much from an era where women were treated as slightly less than. However, I'm wondering if because they have modern daughters and granddaughters, that that effects the way they treat women. It's often the men in their 20's-40's that are the most obnoxious.

I did go into a ski shop with The Boy when we were in Colorado because he wanted to buy some skis. Now, I don't know a TON about skis, but I do know more than him, and so I was showing him some of the skis I thought he'd like or telling him a little about what he was looking for in boots, etc. The shop guy came over and started pretty much pretending I wasn't there, which honestly was ok considering I wasn't the customer, but once I started inserting my opinion and making it known that I wasn't just a clueless sidekick, he did start including me in the conversation as well, so that the three of us could have a discussion about what we were looking for (since The Boy just got an idea to get skis and didn't really think about what or when he would use them, and as a skiier I had a better idea of what he was looking for). Once I became involved like this, the guy treated me much better (actually tried to sell me some skis, not beginner-model either, and he wasn't demeaning at all towards me). However, it did take some forceful talking to get them to realize that although The Boy was a snowboarder, he wasn't at all interested in how 'sweet his setup looked', since they were convinced he'd want to pay a few extra hundred bucks for a really great-looking pair of freestyle boots that matched his skis and bindings. LOL. And they say women are bad!

 

[Pequenita]

Oddly enough, I've found that I'm often treated the best by older men in their 50's and up. Normally I'd think these men would be most likely to treat me badly, since they're pretty much from an era where women were treated as slightly less than. However, I'm wondering if because they have modern daughters and granddaughters, that that effects the way they treat women. It's often the men in their 20's-40's that are the most obnoxious.

This reminded me of a non-skiing similarity I experienced when I was interviewing for jobs at law firms. I discovered that I interviewed the best with men in their mid-40s and up and worst, sadly, with women in that same age-group. With the men, I think it had to do with the guys in their 40s and up had finally made partner and their office sizes matched the size of their egos. I think the women sacrificed a lot to get to the same position and resented what they perceived to be women in their 20s being able to "have it all" (uh, which isn't true, by the way!).

Back to skiing, I don't think I've had a problem in ski shops or renting performance skis, but I've always been pretty insistent about what I wanted. I found that the times I've gotten crappy gear (renting) have been when the entire stock of gear was crappy and I was too lazy to go to another shop. I usually walk in carrying my ski boots, which I think gives me some street cred. A teensy bit. I've only been in ski shops either alone or with a male pinhead who would walk away from me when a salesperson approached.

 

[bettei]

I have a gripe that has to do with the difference in men's and women's ski clothing.
Why is it there are always XXL and even bigger men's coats to pick from, and usually NO bigger sizes in womens'? And furthermore, why does ski clothing run so much smaller than a coat from a department store? Why the difference?
I'm a sking Granny and proud of it, and can easily wear a size 14 coat in any department store. When I go to look at ski coats though, there are some size 16's that compare to some size 10's in any other store. I guess the message that the manufacturers' are sending is this...it's ok to be bigger if you are a man and want to ski, but you better not be over a 10/12 if you are a woman. :mad:

 

[ski now work later]

Try snowboarding jackets, especially Burton. They are sized much more generously and have great pit zips and other venting for overheating!

 

[bettei]

I might have to do that. Even my daughter who wears size 8 clothing has to get bigger sizes in ski wear. One of the Spyder coats she tried on was too small even on her, so where does it leave the bigger women? I know you can sometimes find plus- sized clothing, but those are too large. There seems to be a missing market for the 14 or 16 sized gals. We are the forgotten women of ski wear.
:(

 

[volklgirl]

It seems to be pretty universal except at selected shops.

I've gone into numerous shops and told them upfront that I'm a PSIA Level II instructor, Platinum Nastar and twice weekly league racer, and even pretty much what I'm looking for. Where do they then take the short, fat, old chick????? To the mid to lower level equipment of course. It's not just limited to ski shops either. Bike shops do the same thing. :mad:

Where the salesperson initially takes me and what questions he/she asks determines whether or not I'll buy from that store. If they try to downsell me, I try to make them feel crappy by assuring them they lost a potential sale to the owner of (currently) 7 pairs of top end recreational and racing skis and 3 $1600-3000 bikes. (You should see the look on the bike shop salespeoeple's face when they realize they lost the sale and hubby shows them the high end bikes on the back of the car )

 

[Shellski]

I guess I usually have a different 'take' on ski shops, because I would never go into a ski shop looking for advice. I generally have done a lot of research about what I want, or I am just having a look around, in which case I would rather be left alone.

I never deal with the 'pimply sales kid' though, I know the owners of most of the ski shops I frequent here, so I just deal with them, particularly for things like boot fitting.

I had a funny experience not long ago - I was in a ski shop, and asked the girl behind the counter if they had any ski-gees (those plastic goggle wipers?) she said 'ooh, like, be careful with those things because they can, like, scratch the lenses of your goggles, you know???..' I laughed and said I needed a new one because I gave my last one to my off-piste guide when I was in Chamonix in February, the look on her face was priceless.

 

[ski now work later]

I had a funny experience not long ago - I was in a ski shop, and asked the girl behind the counter if they had any ski-gees (those plastic goggle wipers?) she said 'ooh, like, be careful with those things because they can, like, scratch the lenses of your goggles, you know???..' I laughed and said I needed a new one because I gave my last one to my off-piste guide when I was in Chamonix in February, the look on her face was priceless.

I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to see that one. That's a great story!

 

[altagirl]

I guess I usually have a different 'take' on ski shops, because I would never go into a ski shop looking for advice. I generally have done a lot of research about what I want, or I am just having a look around, in which case I would rather be left alone.

While I agree with you, I think that's really a shame. Most bike shops are the same way, but we have ONE that specializes in DH and every employee there is both an amazing rider and an incredible mechanic - seriously some of the best in the world. And they are who I (and all the DH racers, freeriders, etc.) around her go to for advice. Yeah, you can get plenty of opinions on the internet, but instead of getting the opinion of someone who's tried only a handful of the options out there - they've tried everything. AND I ride with them sometimes and know they know what they're talking about. Their opinion is much more objective than a magazine review (I think magazines often don't want to really slam the product because that's who their getting their advertising revenue from) or someone less experienced. They are really the best resource around.

WHY can't I find a ski shop like that? We used to have one but they went out of business. I have a bootfitter whose opinion I trust, but he only carries a handful of skis - his focus is just boots. And there are a couple shop employees here and there who are fairly knowledgeable. But honestly I think it's sad that there are so few shops staffed by people who really know what they are talking about. Yeah, I know the money is in selling low end skis to the masses, and you can pay kids minimum wage to do it, and just let everyone who wants higher end stuff do their own research. I guess I just feel like there's something missing there. I live in a ski mecca and there isn't one shop around here that I truly love. Lame.

 

[tradygirl]

I agree with you guys 100%. You've got to consider the market, though. AG - Go Ride doesn't carry mediocre stuff for the masses or road bikes. They carry the best DH/FR stuff available. They are a specialty shop, and that's why they're so good.

Specialty ski shops pretty much don't exist. Everyone skis on pretty much the same gear, hence the problem. The one exception is Black Diamond - it's specialized - tele and touring stuff only. I know those guys were just out skiing on the gear I'm looking at. I know the guys that designed it. They know all the gear nuances and they know how to get you set up right.

Ski shops SHOULD specialize because there are vastly different sectors within the sport. Powder, groomers, racing, hucking, park, touring, beginners. The problem is that 80% of the market are people who ski maybe once or twice a year and are willing to spend a lot of $$ without consequence. Why would a shop need highly trained salespeople if they can sell the same number of skis to people that don't really care?

 

[altagirl]

I agree with you guys 100%. You've got to consider the market, though. AG - Go Ride doesn't carry mediocre stuff for the masses or road bikes. They carry the best DH/FR stuff available. They are a specialty shop, and that's why they're so good.

Specialty ski shops pretty much don't exist. Everyone skis on pretty much the same gear, hence the problem. The one exception is Black Diamond - it's specialized - tele and touring stuff only. I know those guys were just out skiing on the gear I'm looking at. I know the guys that designed it. They know all the gear nuances and they know how to get you set up right.

Ski shops SHOULD specialize because there are vastly different sectors within the sport. Powder, groomers, racing, hucking, park, touring, beginners. The problem is that 80% of the market are people who ski maybe once or twice a year and are willing to spend a lot of $$ without consequence. Why would a shop need highly trained salespeople if they can sell the same number of skis to people that don't really care?

Yeah, I know. T&T (the shop I liked) was a high end specialty ski shop. And they went out of business. Most of the people around here who buy those skis also expect to get a deal on them. That doesn't help either.

And I think it works in Go-Ride's favor that bikes (esp. DH/FR bikes) are so complicated. You need new skis - you just buy them and get them mounted - maintenance is generally easy to do yourself, or it's cheap. And once you buy them - what's there to upgrade? Bikes, OTOH - I've bought several bikes on ebay and then spent thousands of dollars upgrading them at Go-Ride. They're complicated to get set up correctly and some maintenance is damn near impossible to do yourself (rebuilding forks, etc.) Not to mention you need tires, brake pads, cables and things like that replaced constantly.

Anyway, it still bums me out. And you're right that BD is what we have as a skiing equivalent. It's just too bad they only really deal with touring gear/tele stuff. And Contender is probably the roadie equivalent, from what I've heard. It just feels like the alpine equivalent is missing, you know?

 

[abc]

I don't buy any of those excuses why shops treat women so poorly.

What does it take to ask "what level of skier you are?" AND TAKE IT SERIOUSLY???

If I can do my own research and narrow down the equipment for myself, why can't a ski shop staff, young kid or not, not able to do the same after spending 8 hours every day in a shop?

Sure, there're many, many "average" women skiers who will be fine on just about anything. But if a women say she's an advanced skier or trying to be one, what's preventing the sale staff to recommend something more, well, "advanced"???

I think bike shops are better than ski shops. Bikes look different. And you can pick it up and FEEL the difference. So I don't really get "down sell" at bike shops as much. They do try their best to seperate my money from my wallet! ;)

(Although this might expose one of the main reason: we women are not as willing to throw money on toys as the boys!)

I also have one advantage: I do "LOOK" athletic! :p My best friend, who's very "athletic looking" but is a healthy couch patato, always crack up when she goes to buy sporting equipment for her children: the sale staff try to sell HER expensive stuff thinking she's a good athlet!