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DIVA DOGS!

MissySki

Angel Diva
So Sookie has started pressing lots of buttons in sequence this week, after I added her 3 additional buttons. She seems to be experimenting and babbling a lot, and it often doesn't all make sense. I try to extract what does or even go do strange things her combinations bring up like a couple of times she has said "ice" 'outside" and I brought ice chips with us outside to eat and play with. :smile: I'm quite sure she didn't know what she was asking for in that case, but I wanted to show her what it sounded like to me and what would happen with that combination.

Last night we had a nice exchange where she requests with the "help", "play", and "ice" buttons. We often play with ice chips inside, she loves eating them and she also likes when I squeeze them between my fingers and they go flying so she can chase them down and eat them. So she has asked a few times for "ice" "play" now. Here's a video from yesterday where she added "help" in too.

 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I can’t believe I made this into a video.. my singing voice is NOT something I wish to share! Lol But I was randomly singing to Sookie last night and she goes and says “love you”, totally melting me into a puddle.. so I had to memorialize it. Mind you, she could have been meaning something more like, “Love you, please stop now!!” Haha. She has always stopped whatever she’s doing and stared at me intently when I sing. Not sure if that means she likes it or is pained, given a dog’s more sensitive hearing. :rotf:

 
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ilovepugs

Angel Diva
Ah ha ha ha ha he looks like I felt after our walk this morning. I thought it'd be okay out because Alexa told me it was 75 degrees.. but apparently the humidity is 1000% because omg it's disgusting!
He’s a super lazy pugtato! He spends 80% of his time sleeping and 20% of his time snuffling around for treats
 

TNtoTaos

Angel Diva
I will definitely keep posted as we go once we start, which I plan to do in the next couple of days! I had ordered a starter kit from FluentPet with two buttons that arrived today, and I have a larger set coming that was supposed to take a little longer. I’m currently reading “How Stella Learned to Talk” by Christina Hunger. She’s the speech therapist who started the whole buttons approach with her dog. Around a third through and it is really an inspiring read. Very interesting to hear how she came about the idea by seeing similarities in non verbal communication development milestones in her puppy and how it compares with young children before they start speaking. Also like that she outlined the early non-progression as it took her puppy several weeks to ever start noticing the first buttons at all. I’ve read a bunch of things from a few days to a few months for others’ dogs to take to it, and how some are more receptive in general even in multi-dog homes doing this. It’s good to have an outlook of staying patient in the beginning when nothing might happen for awhile, and to know that doesn’t mean failure given how many are successfully doing this now. It also kind of sounds like when I trained Sookie to signal she needs to go outside using a bell. It took around two weeks for her to catch on, but once she had it that was it. Here’s hoping she likes the buttons too because it seems like such a fun journey to take with your pet!
I LOVED that book! I listened to it last year, and ever since have been wondering if my dogs were smart enough to learn to use the buttons. I've been reading your posts, and am so impressed with the progress that you and Sookie have made. I can barely get one of my Chihuahuas to "tell" me when he wants to go outside by going to the door. He hasn't really caught on about going to his food bowl when he wants to eat, and his sister just looks at me and does whatever her brother does, lol. I may have some questions for you after I finish reading all of your posts.
 

TNtoTaos

Angel Diva
That's totally fine, everyone definitely figures out the best system for having their dog relieve themselves. Some people use bells, now some people use buttons, some people have a schedule their dog has to work with, some people hire dog walkers in the middle of the day, some people use potty pads or grass patches inside.. I'm sure there are more options too. My vet says her dogs stand by the door to indicate they need to go out and will whine if she doesn't notice soon enough.

My previous dog Zoey came to us pretty much box trained, and we stuck with that her whole life. I decided I wanted to train Sookie to go outside but also might add in some pad training later for the winter weekends in Maine as it will be a lot more difficult to go outside a bunch at the ski condo where we are on an upper level, and I'm betting she isn't going to love uber cold Maine winter at first haha.

Some points of clarity for our current situation:

1) Sookie is almost 7 months old and I'd say around 90% housebroken/potty trained, but I feel it's good to keep reinforcing because really you don't consider a dog fully potty trained until they haven't had an accident in several months and that isn't the case yet given her age and we haven't even had her 4 months yet.
2) She was most recently going out when I would bring her (I work from home) and maybe asking a couple of times outside of that. Usually she actually has to go to the bathroom and occasionally she just wants to go outside. And then..
3) She unexpectedly went into heat 2 DAYS before her spay appointment a couple of weeks ago. Suddenly she is peeing gosh I'd say double and somedays triple the amount she was before. This seems to be small marking pees outside to spread her scent from what I've read. Should go back to normal after her heat cycle. She will also be spayed in September now as the vet wants to wait 6-8 weeks from the end of her cycle. So this is driving a lot currently, though I think she's also super excited about the buttons too. I'm happy to go out and keep her marking out of the house, not that I'm sure if she'd be driven to do it inside or not biologically versus outside.

For anyone who wants to use buttons with their dogs, there is no set vocabulary to use. There are suggestions for what has worked easiest to start for others, but also that you should use what works for your situation and what is motivating to your dog as well. Some people have no food related buttons, and others eventually have a bunch to get more specific as to what sort of treat their dog wants at a given time. Some might not use an outside button because they choose not to and have another way to deal with that, or even because it makes no sense logistically based on where they live etc. Regardless of which buttons you choose to start with, it seems important that at the beginning you use words where you can try and respond to them as much as possible to reinforce the idea that they press a button and this great thing happens (without treats unless it's a food related button you are working on).. this helps further intrinsic desire by the animal to do it again and then learn more and more ways to communicate with you. Once they have the concept pretty well though you do want to then introduce parameters because no it is certainly not possible or desirable to constantly have buttons being spammed all day long. haha So I have an "all done" button that I am going to work with. When we get more advanced I plan to also follow others who are using time concepts with their animals. So "now" is now obviously, "soon" might mean not right now but within 30 mins we'll go do that thing you want, "later" might mean within a few hours this will happen, "tomorrow" etc. That's obviously a higher level more abstract concept to get accross and will take more time, but I've seen lots of dogs using these concepts in seemingly appropriate contexts.

This is definitely something to consider if you go along this path before starting. If you want to communicate with your dog (or another pet) in this way, you are somewhat choosing to leave behind the blissful ignorance of enforcing your convenience and routines on them and just assuming that they are completely content with that because they get to be with you and have no strong individual opinions of their own. Because you may end up finding that they actually aren't and just couldn't pipe up with their opinions, desires, and preferences before because there was no way to. Or they might be letting you know in ways you don't understand. I saw a discussion on this in my reading and it's quite interesting to think about ethically. Some people get really annoyed with the button spamming and take them away at times etc. Apparently some people will even do that to their human children who are learning to use AAC devices to speak. This was compared by a speech pathologist as if you are placing a piece of tape over the mouth of a speaking child to shut them up when they are learning to babble and speak or when they are being annoying or demanding in general. I think most people who have embarked on this journey, including myself, are doing it to form a deeper relationship and understanding of their pet as an individual. There are definitely pros and cons to this, but who hasn't wished they could know what their pet wanted at times or that they could tell them what was wrong when they are sick or in pain (this is especially interesting for potential uses in veterinary medicine) etc.? I know I have. But there is a lot to wrap ones head around with the can of worms being opened here.

I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on some of these things and the ethical pieces as well. I find it all so fascinating and look forward to following the ongoing research being done. I've also signed us up to participate in the phase 1 study gathering information on new learners and their progression to understand if there are differences in age, sex, breed, etc etc on how they pick this up. There are also later phase studies happening with all sorts of other things for those further along. I'm currently tracking the buttons Sookie presses and the context it happened in along with when I'm modeling the buttons in an app for this purpose and will be providing a more detailed update I have to fill out every two weeks as we go.
I totally agree with you regarding the responsibility one takes on when choosing to give their pets (cats do this, too!) the opportunity to communicate more freely. Have you read Merle's Door: Lessons from a Freethinking Dog? It explores some of the same ideas, only with freedom to move around at will rather than communication. It really changed my thinking quite a bit, as has Hunger's book.
 

shadoj

Angel Diva
Ah, what to do about the pug, or the Frenchie, or the English bulldog, or even the cancer-riddled Bernese? Though I appreciate the sentiment of "improving" a too-far-gone aesthetic extreme to something normal, why start with the fixed "defective" lines crossed back to an already functional breed? (@ilovepugs this is in no offense to your pups! I have a soft spot for all the sweet pugs I've met. I just question the continued breeding of flat faces knowing what we know now).

I suppose you could start selecting for less prey-driven, more chill Parsons that are slightly out of standard but healthy genetically and conformationally: but, why cross to a pug if it's only the personality you're seeking? Just make a new line of chill companion Parsons with a personality similar to a pug, but without the genetic minefield. Otherwise, we're still just breeding for looks. The "in-between" look may not be achievable for breeding true to type (i.e. heterozygous at several loci) which can still result in offspring with respiratory/skeletal issues down the line.

How much we know not... though all living things are lovable, there is no question there (minus ticks and mosquitoes, I suppose).
 

Skidreamer

Certified Ski Diva
Here in Australia we're seeing most German Shepherds have had the legendary attribute of that angle in their hind legs over-bred to the point that the dogs can barely walk and many have a terrible curve in the spine now too from what I'm seeing - is this also an issue in the US etc? Apparently many now need to put down at a relatively young age. Also a number of breeds increasingly seem to have epilepsy lines bred into them, eg Boxers and German Wirehaired Pointers.
 

Skidreamer

Certified Ski Diva
I suppose you could start selecting for less prey-driven, more chill Parsons that are slightly out of standard but healthy genetically and conformationally.
I owned the most chilled out Parson over here in Australia until he passed away a couple of years ago at 13. He was the canine love of my life, so very loved and missed...
 

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TNtoTaos

Angel Diva
So cute! How do they like Aspen for the winter? I'm currently trying to find a very warm snowsuit or coat for my girl. She gets cold pretty easily and hasn't been in a Maine (or any New England) winter yet.. so I want to be prepared for her needing to be bundled up. :smile:
Check out Etsy -- there are quite a few people who make really nice dog clothes. I got beautiful wool sweaters for Luke and Leia there: IMG_0100.jpeg
 

TNtoTaos

Angel Diva
Here in Australia we're seeing most German Shepherds have had the legendary attribute of that angle in their hind legs over-bred to the point that the dogs can barely walk and many have a terrible curve in the spine now too from what I'm seeing - is this also an issue in the US etc? Apparently many now need to put down at a relatively young age. Also a number of breeds increasingly seem to have epilepsy lines bred into them, eg Boxers and German Wirehaired Pointers.
I know it's becoming an issue here. Another big issue is cancer: I know many Rottie rescue people, and of the tens of Rotties I've known, I can only think of one or two that didn't die of cancer, usually bone cancer. And then our toy breeds are very prone to congestive heart failure: 90% of Cavalier King Charles spaniels die from CHS. And on and on...unfortunately, breeding for physical characteristics doesn't take into account all of the genetically linked issues.
 

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