Help Needed: Diagnose my control issues?

[JO-ski]

Hi all. I have a video of me on the bunny hill yesterday. Do you have any suggestions and recognize what I'm doing wrong?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1u-BzzO8yCXDCZp2T5TqFXnvHPRckjk8a

 

[JO-ski]

P.S. I look really stiff!

 

[snoWYmonkey]

@JO-ski ,

Thank you so much for the update, video link, and most of all enthusiasm and openness to all our ideas.

I love your video and how you are skiing. You are definitely on the right path to improvement and harder trails.

My first observation is that you are making overall very nice round, unrushed turns. Bravo! My second observation is look farther ahead towards the valley. You vision and head are looking only a few feet ahead, at least in the first turn. This is the first thing I work on if it is an issue with my students. Sometimes that one adjustment can fix other balance and fore/aft stance issues.

Have your partner or a trusted friend play a red light green light game by standing way down the hill and have them cross poles over heard for red and open poles and arms to a V for green. You might be surprised at how far down the hill you can look and still ski in control.

I like that I am seeing snow spray primarily from the outside ski in your turns at this stage in your skiing game. Please understand that nothing is set in stone in skiing. Rather, as you progress you will learn that some things may work in one situation but not in another. Most of all nothing is static, especially stance, as we are constantly moving as we ski through our turns.

One small clarification from your earlier post. The transition, or flat ski, is not in the middle of the C but rather in between Cs. When we are learning (which is always by the way) we tend to have the ski on it's highest edge right before the transition into the new top of the C. In other words, we tend to have a high edge angle at the end of the C. That does not however mean that we have a flat ski in the middle of the C when the skis are facing straight down the hill. Ideally, you will be working towards a high edge angle at the middle of the C and the skis gradually returning to flat, for a skis length, during the transition between Cs. But first make sure you develop speed control skills, of which there are more than one.

As for tired legs, skiing, while it does not have to be tiring is after all a sport. On a green, flat run, once you become efficient, and are just skiing basic parallel turns, you should hopefully not have legs that get too tired. However, the steeper the terrain or the more dynamic your skiing, the more likely it is that your legs will tire. Most of us instructors, especially the ones over 40, do an 8 week very intensive, pre ski season ski specific fitness class, of which there are at last 7 in our town to choose from. That is in addition to our regular workouts, hikes, bikes, paddles, etc... I have students that can barely do three of four beginner runs without visible leg fatigue and borderline dangerous control issues at the end of the session as a result of tired legs, and I have some that go from 9 am to 4:25pm with a quick lunch, and are barely starting to feel the burn. Fitness is a factor, but does not need to be a limiting one. There are ways, in addition to off snow training, to minimize it.

I do not by the way think you look stiff, but again, wish to remind you and myself, that skiing is not static, nor is the stance. Often exploring what we think is a wide movement range, actually is quite limited. Video is cool that way, in that we get to reconcile what we think we are doing, (as in I think I ski like Mikaela in my mind), with what is actually happening (I look like I am barely moving - so much for being dynamic).

I hope my ramblings made a little sense.

PS You are a trouper for night skiing....brrrr
PPS I love the image you found to illustrate just leaning into the front of the boot with no other flexing happening....so funny and perfect, but maybe not for skiing unless it is going off the big jump!

 

[liquidfeet]

@JO-ski
It looks like you are having a great time on snow. Your turns appear symmetrical left and right; that's good. Your upper body is stable and you are making your turns with your legs/feet; that's REALLY good.
Here are some suggestions that will give you more control, help you continue to advance, and give you some muscular relief so your legs won't be so tired. There's also a suggestion that can loosen up your rigidity while helping you stay out of the back seat.

Look at this image:

If you draw a straight line upwards through your feet, how much of your body is in front of that line, and how much is behind? You know what I'm getting at, I suspect. You are in the back seat.

Here's another image:

This time if you draw that straight line upwards from the skis through your feet, there's a wee bit more of you in front of the line. The only thing that's changed is the ankle bend. In the second image, your shin forms a slightly-less-than-90-degree angle with the top of the ski (as measured up from the front of the ski). In the first image, it forms a slightly more than 90-degree angle.

The point: if you bend MORE MORE MORE forward at the ankle and change absolutely nothing else, your weight will be farther forward on the skis and you'll have more control over them. Your confidence will soar, and with good reason. You may even be able to relax a little as your recognize that the skis are doing what you tell them to do.

Getting the ankles to close more, and getting them to stay that way, requires total mental focus. Focus your attention on your ankles, make it laser-like, talk to yourself about maintaining that focus, and pat yourself on the back if you can get down the run without losing that focus. Then do it all over again. Practice keeping the ankles closed, closed CLOSED all the way down the hill. Do it until you can do it while allowing your focus to wander. You'll know you're succeeding if your attention wanders, and when you bring it back the ankles don't need to be closed because they have remained closed while you left the room.

For some mental relief from all this focusing, you can shuffle your turns. Almost always, shuffling keeps the skier out of the back seat, and loosens up the whole body. Do you know how to shuffle?
If so, do that for 3-4 turns, then go back to regular turns with focus on the ankles. Shuffling on and off like that can help you relax, and get you out of that stiffness you're noticing. It feels good, too. Slide feet forward and back while making your turns. Try to keep it up through the entire turn.

Check out this shuffling lesson with some kids. You'll notice they have difficulty doing the shuffle through the whole turn. Expect that; it's normal. Work your way through it; keep trying to shuffle through the whole turn. When you can do that, you'll be out of the wedge, too.

Now imagine that you also move your hands forward a little, as if you are carrying an invisible cafeteria tray. There! a little bit more weight forward, because your arms weigh something. The general rule is elbows in front of jacket seams. This will feel silly since there's no cafeteria tray, but do it anyway.

But the ankles are so much more important than the hands at this point in your development. Some novice skiers think that if they get forward, they will go faster. The opposite is true; getting forward helps you turn better, and turning slows you down. Getting forward makes you the boss, and keeps the skis from having a mind of their own. It presses the shovels of the skis into the snow so they make the turns happen with much more power. If you want to go slow, getting forward helps you do that. It can help you do anything you want on those skis. It's the magic key to everything.

 

[JO-ski]

@liquidfeet thank you for the in-depth analysis!! Love the screen shots. I do totally need to lean forward!! I think I need to do that with my boots while not moving to recognize what it feels like.

I tried to pay attention to my feet to see where the pressure was put while I skied. I found that every time I hit a lump in the snow (really icy and lumpy yesterday) I would totally lean back on my heels. But perhaps if I wasn't in the back seat at all in the first place, that wouldn't have happened?

My last instructor also used the cafe tray analogy. Told me to serve him lunch during my whole lesson.

@snoWYmonkey the lumps in the snow / ice is what really makes me nervous so I think that's why I tend to look down because I'm cautious. Eeks. I really do hate those random clumps on the hill! But I will try and not look and look forward so that I get the control I need to overcome the nerves and the clumps!

Thank you everyone for the advice!! In hope your analysis also helps out others with common problems.

 

[newboots]

Instructors, this is so helpful!

@JO-ski - thanks for getting video taken and posting it! We can all learn from this!

[ETA] P.S. None of us likes those lumps. We call them "death cookies!"

 

[liquidfeet]

@JO-ski
How do you get off a lift without falling back onto your hip? You must have learned to propel your arms forward and your hips forward, otherwise you're still falling backwards every time.

Think about that. You successfully, every run, get forward when sliding down the snow at the end of a lift ride. Your reach your arms forward, and make sure your hips go with them. So you can do it, you can get forward when there's something scary in front of you. Your body already knows how.

There's a story I tell students who are prone to leaning back at every startle (which is totally natural). Pretend that a huge invisible snow snake rises up in front of you with each event of that sort. Your only defense against that snake is to reach forward HARD and strangle it with both hands. If you do this, it dissolves like magic. Reach forward with both arms at every startle! Grab that snow snake to make it disappear!

 

[Powgirl]

You are on your way @JO-ski ...

 

[JO-ski]

@liquidfeet You are right! If I can lean forward to get off a chair lift, I should be able to do it on a run. I will keep that in mind and trust my body and just lean! I will get those snow snakes too!!! Instructors should wear snow snake helmets. LOL.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Peripheral vision is your friend. Try this at home. Look at a spot on a wall a couple of feet off the ground. Place a shoe or something small on the ground halfway between you and the wall. Return to where you were orginally standing. Walk towards the spot on the wall while looking at the spot, not at the shoe. Stop moving forward when you can not longer see the shoe out of your peripheral vision. You can still see it until almost on top of it, especially if you have seen it from a distance before. Fixating on it is what can cause too much visual and out of balance focus down rather than ahead. That little drill helped me a lot in my mountainbiking.

Also playing visual leap frog is helpful. The fastest way for most of us to figure out our path or line between gates or obstacles is by looking at the end object and working backwards. I have another drill for that one, but it's a bit harder to set up and explain and perform solo. Continuously scanning ahead will allow you to place you path with the least treacherous icy death cookies along the way.

 

[volklgirl]

I thought your turn shape and speed was wonderful!

The 2 main things I saw have already been addressed in this thread - back-seat driving and staring at the tips of your skis. Beyond that, you are well on your way to being an accomplished beginner!

One thing to focus on that may help you stay more balanced is to think of your toes. Really concentrate on them for a run or 2....what happens when you lift them up off the bottome of your boot? What happens when you press them down? Try keeping the pressure in your boots from your arch forward for a couple of runs.....what happens then? What happens if you reach your hands toward the tips of your skis?

The only other thing I would mention is that you'll need to finish your turns more across the hill as the terrain gets steeper to keep your speed under control.

Keep at it! You're getting there!!

 

[JO-ski]

@newboots Glad that my video helps others out! And I'm glad the ladies here are open to critiquing videos with such detail!

@snoWYmonkey thank you! I will try this at home and learn to trust my peripheral vision.

The other thing I also noticed is that the more nervous I get, the more I scrunch and tense up my toes in my boot. I don't think that helps matters at all when I'm trying to get forward! So if I begin to lose control, my toes scrunch up and of course, I can't lean forward comfortably. And snowball effect... and then I wipe out.

@volklgirl Thank you for the encouragement! I think it's becoming more apparent that it's so important for me to also check my boot snugness after my first couple of runs because they do loosen and warm up, and having them loose is not good when I'm trying to lean my body forward. So many little factors that I'm pinpointing! I'm glad I'm discovering them now though.

P.S. I really like night skiing because the hills are a lot more empty and the lift lines are so much shorter! It feels so much more liberating when I have a whole run to myself. I was actually surprised at how empty it was on a Saturday night. I guess some people define a 'happenin' Saturday night with other activities. ;)

 

[Jilly]

J0-ski do you usually ski north of TO? Do you ever come east....Lakeridge or Brimacombe?

 

[JO-ski]

Hi @Jilly ! I was looking into Lakeridge one time but wasn't sure about the runs there and if there were a lot of green runs. Do you teach out there??

 

[Jilly]

No, but I can teach. I'm certified. The Brim is about 1 hour away. I found out this weekend that I have everything here at home except skis and boots. So I could bring those home from Tremblant and meet up with you. But it's not good if you're too far from either those too or Devils Elbow.

 

[JO-ski]

@Jilly That would be amazing to have you teach me some!!! Brimacombe is actually closer to me than my regular hill in Barrie. I actually have never been there before. Can I take you up on the offer? Let me PM you.

 

[JO-ski]

Hi everyone, for those interested in stance. See video below. I thought it was a good one that shows drills to practice stance.

I liked watching the skiers' body while they are skiing. They're not moving too fast nor carving too deeply so you can really see the fundamentals. They lean pretty far from the hill, over their outside so, all the while facing the bottom of the hill. I also liked watching the camera person's point of view so that you can watch and totally relate to the skier while they're moving.

 

[Jilly]

I don't know about PSIA, but the CSIA doesn't really teach Glide Christie anymore. Which is the first exercise. But I like the rest. The lifting the uphill ski, forced the gal in white to get out of the back seat!!

 

[echo_VT]

i really like this thread. you are all so helpful.

- have you tried J turns? it is when you turn left or right, but then turn back up the hill to face it. the kids say "hello hill!" in an enthusiastic voice and wave to the hill. i'm not even kidding. this helps keep their skis parallel. also whenever it is icy (um all the time in the east!) i and others frequently turn back up the hill to scrub speed, b/c edging is a bad idea on ice.

- one more thing i noticed in your vid that i think hasn't been said yet (in addition to all the comments above) is that your movements are on the stiff side - there should be ankle flexion and knee flexion - then extension and release of the ski down the fall line (basically, from one set of edges, to flat base skis, and then the next set of edges. instructors seem to call this 2-4-2 which means 2 edges engaged, 4 edges engaged, and then 2 edges engaged) - then again back to flexion after the release. it's pretty gradual stuff, but they call this dynamic skiing. you shouldn't always be in the ankle flexion stage, and there should be some variance in how much flexion there is during the turn, even on really gentle slopes. greens and blues are so helpful for practicing this.

sometimes when we are thinking so hard about our turns, whether it's staying parallel or whatever other habits we're trying to gain or bad habits we're trying to lose - it's very easy to not ski dynamically. the ski shuffle is a great way to practice that as well. i do it all the time when i am standing still to get my body in the right position. but while in motion, it's key to keep the body in motion thru-out the turn.

 

[JO-ski]

@echo_NY I'm glad you found this thread helpful too. There are lots of good advice here and I feel like I'm progressing and understanding the mechanics of skiing more and more. It makes me motivated even if I have improving ahead of me.

I have been really trying to get that 'J' shape in a single turn to 'wave hi' to the hill. My problem is that my turns happen a lot slower than I'd like and I almost reach the edge of the hill by the time I slow down. I attribute all my problems with me being in the backseat which makes me lose control of my skis and not put enough weight on my outside ski.

I watched the video of myself over and over, and I think I also pinpointed another isssue: I am forgetting to raise my elbows. My forearms hands are in front of me but my elbows are tight and touching my jacket. From all the advice I've received, I think I should be lifting my elbows higher and away from my body, almost like Frankenstein. I have a feeling that if I do this, I'll be leaning at my ankles automatically and being forward wouldn't be such a struggle.

You are right about my stiffness! I totally feel stiff while going down a hill. I think it all roots from fear, which leads to backseat driving, which leads to control issues, which then leads to more fear! So my main goal is to get those ankles forward, like @liquidfeet pinpointed! I really have to get my shoulders hovering around my toes (while facing downhill) and not just bend at my knees and waist. I am going to really really focus on lifting my inside ski up from the heel instead of just lifting up in order to get my body more more more forward. And also maybe practice in my boots and on my skis but standing still and try leaning forwards to get used to what that feels like.