Denver Post article on CO skiier deaths

[itri]

https://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_8857056

I thought I'd post this here and see what everyone thinks. I think the article has some really interesting points, but I'm not sure what the solution is...

Is the problem that people are out of control and not taking responsibility for themselves in general? Is the problem that advances in equipment and widespread grooming are making runs more accessible to people that probably shouldn't be on them?

I don't know what the answer is or if there even is one, just thought it might be an interesting discussion here!

What do you think?

 

[Christy]

Interesting article--it did a good job of conveying how complex the situation is, how many possible causes and solutions there are.

While it's very sad that these people died, I wonder how much you can do to protect people from themselves. I clicked on some of the links to the right that detailed the deaths (I've been reading the death threads on epicski as well), and these weren't beginners. These for the most part were good skiers going fast. I wonder if it's really up to ski areas to rethink their policies to keep this group of people from hurting themselves.

Would education work? I remember the first time I drove in England, I saw giant billboards along the highways that said things like, "73 people died on this road last year from speeding. Don't speed." I wonder if that type of thing is effective. Would any speedy skiers slow down if they knew that someone had died recently, wearing a helmet, on a particular run? Or if they knew that blue groomers were in general were most people die? (I think that would surprise a lot of people).

One safety related thing that I've found odd as I've learned to ski over the past year is the emphasis on helmets, but zero education about other safety aspects. Wearing a helmet may be a good idea, but there's an awful lot it doesn't protect you from (as pointed out in the article-7 of 9 tree crashing deaths were helmet wearers), and I wonder if people don't get that, or get a false sense of security with one. I learned quite a few safety tips on epicski that I sure never learned in lessons (the importance hockey stops on both sides, why you shouldn't ski on the edge next to the trees, etc etc).

On a related note, and since I know we have quite a few riders here, the NY Times has a story today on the rise in equestrian deaths. The eventing community is grappling with the same kind of questions and solutions that skiers are. Link to article:
https://tinyurl.com/3tznnw

 

[dloveski]

No to the nanny resort---

You can't elminate the risk from skiing, but fears of liability will drive some resorts to try, with policies, slow signs, 'safety patrol', and maybe speed traps/limits in the future----taking the thrill and fun away. This will drive more folks out of bounds.

I wish skiers who expect to be coddled and want strict controls would pick another sport, like GOLF. And make sure they wear their helmets on the green---for that random loose ball. Geesh.

When my kid snapped his femur jumping kickers, it was his fault and no one else's. No one to blame but the teenage brain. And a hard lesson learned. And he continues to love the sport today, but hopefully smarter about his choices.

 

[SkiNurse]

**Warning!!!!! This is a graphic post!!!! Do not read if you will be offended***

One last warning.....

Most of the skier/boarder accidents we see are intermediate to advanced, late in the day that caught an edge on a groomed run. Bam, into a tree, another rider or onto the hard pack. Key word "most" not "all".

The last skier death/accident at Winter Park (the 39yo mentioned in the article) was witnessed by a friend's husband. It was 9am and they had just dropped off their kids in ski school. He had gone down ahead on this blue run, groomed hard pack. And we all know those type of runs...early in the morning, hard pack, fast and haven't softened up yet.

My friend heard her husband screaming for her. She thought he was hurt.

As my friend's husband was waiting for her, looking up the hill, he saw this other skier (no helmet) coming down fast. It appeared she was adjusting a boot or something (as we have all done), not in good form, kinda bending over and went STRAIGHT INTO THE TREE. She never saw it coming.

My friend did what she could to save this woman's life. She is a critical care nurse and works with me. There were a couple of other WP employees (not patrol yet) that helped her get this woman's face out of the snow/tree. She held her head/neck while they turned her into a stable position. He face was completely borken, the jaw was loose. She couldn't get an airway d/t the blood/debris in the mouth. She held this poor woman's head/neck (to stabilize the spine) while waiting for patrol. She said the head felt like a smashed melon. She kept looking for the equpment that we take for granted in a critical care unit...suction, monitors...back up personell. But, of course, there was nothing. She felt this woman dying in her hands.

Patrol arrived...and they arrived relatively quickly. Got an airway, put her on back board and took her to clinic where she was pronounced dead.

My friend and her husband were questioned by patrol for a while. Especially since hubby had actually witnessed the event. They found out in the course of talking to patrol (patrol actually pulled up the woman's pass history and knew by how often and different areas the pass was scanned )that she was a proficient skier.

It can happen to anyone at anytime. I think about the times I adjust my boots, my goggles, zip my jacket and generally not paying attention to waht I am doing.

Does this happen in my "natural" terrain that I love so much?? No, cuz I'm paying attention when I'm in an area that is steep, bumps, trees. It is on the groomers, where I allow myself to become a little less conscientous of what I'm doing.

 

[jaydog]

I wish skiers who expect to be coddled and want strict controls would pick another sport, like GOLF. And make sure they wear their helmets on the green---for that random loose ball. Geesh.

Actually, I had a patient this winter who suffered from occasional dizzy spells/blurred vision due to being struck on the head by a golf ball several years ago. There's going to be risk in anything you do. But one can safely argue that getting hit in the head by a golf ball is a freak accident. With the gentleness of golf, you don't generally think about taking the kind of safety measures you do skiing.

With skiing, the danger is inherent and obvious, therefore, the sensible skier takes precautions like following the skiers' responsibility code and wearing a helmet. But what gets me is that some skiers' irresponsible behavior will lead to ski areas being forced to implement measures that will make the sport more restrictive for everyone and take some of the fun out of it. Putting up caution signs and safety posters is one thing. And leaving edges ungroomed sounds reasonable if you consider that it could make the difference in a jury verdict that saves a ski area millions (thereby keeping lift ticket prices down) and obviates the need for more extreme measures like speeding tickets. But can you picture someone pointing to the number of skier vs. tree injuries and demanding trees be padded? Skiers have a right to expect the resort to take reasonable safety measures, and resorts have a right to expect skiers to take reasonable safety measures too. The problem is where to draw the line, or more accurately in this day and age, where will the jury draw the line.

And as for people getting a false sense of security from helmets: sounds just like the folks who think that because they have big bad SUVs with 4WD they can drive like maniacs on snow and ice.

 

[SkiNurse]

It would be interesting to know Skigrl27's take on this. She handles claims for Aspen,,,,

 

[Skimom]

Wow...what a post. I have a friend at work whose friend's husband also witnessed this accident, perhaps the same person you are talking about. I'll ask her if his wife is a nurse.

Thanks for the reminder. I've skied the run where she died many times and, like you, don't think twice on a run like that to adjust something, look for my kids, or whatever.

We all need to remember how dangerous skiing can be. Will I still ski, or course, but it's a good reminder to always be cognizant of the surroundings.!

Thanks for sharing!

 

[SkiNurse]

Small world. I'm assuming it is the same person.

It was pretty traumatizing for both of them. He cuz he had never seen anyone die before...and she, cuz there was nothing she could do to save her.

I heard there is a nice memorial set up on that run.

 

[Pequenita]

Is the problem that people are out of control and not taking responsibility for themselves in general?

imho, this is a large factor, particularly if the incident involves only one person. I don't think the number of or access to groomers really is the issue, other than giving the skier a false sense of security....which goes back to taking responsibility for oneself.

As a society, we tend to expect someone to warn/take care of/make everything perfect for us. We think that everyone owes a duty to us, no matter where we are and what we do, and our legal system is structured to enable that. How else do you explain people winning million dollar lawsuits for spilling hot coffee on themselves? And really, do we need to have warning signs at the edge of the Grand Canyon saying, "Caution, steep ledge"? What next? A sign at the top of the slope saying, "Caution, trees line this run and may, upon impact, cause severe injury"?

Sadly, I think the "solution" is for enough people to have a ski-related injury so that everyone on boards knows someone that's been hurt and recognizes that it can happen to them, too. I'd love the institution of some mandatory skier education program at the beginning of each season, before you're issued your first lift ticket/pass, but seeing as I don't even pay attention to the flight attendants on planes, I don't see this being very practical.

I'll get off my ranting soapbox now!

EDIT: Re-reading Christy's post, maybe something like the billboard with statistics would work. Like instead of ads on the chairlifts or poles, have stats regarding fatalities. Of course, that's not exactly a great marketing tool, right? Or, maybe Ski magazine should include fatalities in its rankings of best ski resorts.....

EDIT 2: Oh, I know. Someone create a non-profit that works to promote skier safety taking out an ad in Ski magazine or something, detailing fatalities and how to increase skier safety. Hmmm.....gears are spinning in my noggin.....

 

[Native Vail Gal]

Small world. I'm assuming it is the same person.

It was pretty traumatizing for both of them. He cuz he had never seen anyone die before...and she, cuz there was nothing she could do to save her.

I heard there is a nice memorial set up on that run.

Did the skier who hit her ever get caught or have ANY type of remorse or penalty. This is so sad...

 

[SkiNurse]

Did the skier who hit her ever get caught or have ANY type of remorse or penalty. This is so sad...

My understanding from my friend is that there were no other skiers involved. It appeared she was adjusting "something" when she hit the tree at full speed.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

Oh....I misunderstood. Wow. That is really, really sad. I'm sorry for your friend, and that woman. It must have been so hard for her.

 

[vanhoskier]

Did the skier who hit her ever get caught or have ANY type of remorse or penalty. This is so sad...

Apparently the woman who died was not hit by anybody else; she was adjusting a boot or something and not paying attention. She just ran into the tree. From the Denver Post article, her father claims she MUST have been trying to avoid somebody, because he said she was too good of a skier to have an accident on her own. But if she was confident on that run, and not paying attention.....

 

[itri]

Does this happen in my "natural" terrain that I love so much?? No, cuz I'm paying attention when I'm in an area that is steep, bumps, trees. It is on the groomers, where I allow myself to become a little less conscientous of what I'm doing.

This is a great point. I've had two or three pretty spectacular falls in the past year, each on a groomer at the end of the day. The most recent one gave me a pretty good case of whiplash, and they all could have been major concussions if I hadn't been wearing my helmet. The first time it happened I was literally only a couple hundred feet or so from the bottom of Golden Peak at Vail, heading in to pick up my DS from daycare. It's so easy to get distracted on a groomer, especially at the end of the day, you catch an edge and down you go in the blink of an eye.

And not that it would solve the problem at all (look at people getting distracted by cellphones while driving), and I know it would never be feasible, but it would almost make sense to require people to get some kind of a "license" to ski...

 

[jaydog]

From the Denver Post article, her father claims she MUST have been trying to avoid somebody

I hate to say it, but that's the big problem nowadays, just as Pequenita mentioned. Nobody can take responsibility for their faults or their problems- it always has to be someone else's fault, specifically someone they can sue for a ridiculous amount of money.

 

[Native Vail Gal]

I hate to say it, but that's the big problem nowadays, just as Pequenita mentioned. Nobody can take responsibility for their faults or their problems- it always has to be someone else's fault, specifically someone they can sue for a ridiculous amount of money.

I take responsibility for not having a helmet on...
I take NO responsibility for the lack of attention from the lift operator and the emergency gate NOT stopping the chair....as it is supposed to do. That will NEVER be my fault.

 

[SkiNurse]

Now, don't get me started on liftees!! Different resorts seem to be worse than others. :yell:

The last time I was at Vail, only ONE liftee did their job. SHE was scraping the snow and then stopped to slow down the chairs as they came around.

Otherwise, everyone else was just standing to the side chatting, singing...whatever. Definitely not paying attention to the riders.:mad:

I will stop now before I REALLY get on another soap box!

 

[Skimom]

NVG...I must not know how you got your injury.???

 

[Native Vail Gal]

NVG...I must not know how you got your injury.???

Nope....Prolly not! Let me look for the link.
Robyn....do you know where it is?

Ah....here it is.....
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1713&highlight=Scene+of+the+Crime

 

[Robyn]

Gimme a moment.