Daydream with me: ski condo

[MissySki]

I love having a ski condo at Sunday River in Maine, I live in Massachusetts and did seasonal rentals for a number of years before buying on mountain. It is wonderful especially not to have to pack things up to bring up and back each season and having access whenever I want to. It truly is my home away from home. I have never rented it out yet since buying in 2021, but our association does use a specific rental company for any who want to do short or long term rentals.

I do not love HOAs in general from past experience with a primary residence, and I wouldn't do that again. BUT it's a godsend when you are 4 hours away like I am, so I like it in that regard for a second home. One weekend there was a leak detected from my unit going into the unit downstairs from us, but we had no idea where it was coming from. Turned out it was the seal under the floor of our toilet which was very old... we had been planning to replace the toilet overall at the end of the season in year one when we bought but then this happened on a random Sunday as I was about to leave for home. It was right ahead of MLK weekend, and the property managers dealt with everything including getting a new toilet of my choosing and installing everything that week. It was all set and cleaned up for my return that Friday of the long weekend... I was SO GRATEFUL I didn't have to do anything from a distance or stay there to have a plumber come etc.

I also think it's much cheaper to deal with all of the amenities and maintenance as a condo association. Not that our dues are cheap, but when I parse it out it's much cheaper than everything would be individually. Our dues cover a pool/hot tub/sauna/etc. area, trash removal, snow removal, master insurance, putting away money for deferred maintenance like we put on a new roof last year, siding, and paving as needed, cable and internet, any little projects the group decides to take on, property management. For a second home, I think this is all awesome to have taken care of and jointly paid for and I love the pool/hot tub/sauna which I certainly wouldn't have all of in a standalone property. I feel like I'm on vacation every weekend, I park and don't need to leave if I don't want to since I'm on the mountain and have a kitchen. We keep some food stocked during the season and bring up what's needed each week as well. If there is a snowstorm I don't have to go anywhere or drive to the mountain or shovel or wait for a plow or clear my car off until I'm ready to... that's all really awesome! We are also usually one of the first to open in New England each season and stay open until late April and occasionally early May so not too shabby.

I also second what @elemmac said earlier in this thread... it's a lifestyle purchase. At least mine is... I don't rent it out and I use it all the time in the winter, it supports my ski lifestyle and makes me happy. It's not an investment for me, but I do know I could cover my expenses with a seasonal rental if I for some reason needed or wanted to do that in the future. You should go into this type of purchase really clear about what you want and/or need to get out of it. Also understanding that the market for ski homes is still hot and up currently, but I remember many years before Covid where units at Sunday River sat on the market forever and were dirt cheap. And boy do I wish I had bought then when I was thinking about it, but I waited and Covid gave me the push as I watched prices jump up and up and up. I thought I was the dumb person who bought at the top of the market that would surely correct, but I didn't care overall because I have no intention of selling in the foreseeable future. Instead, prices have kept going up and seem somewhat stable currently where they are, which is still very well above what I paid. You never know which way things might go in the future for the vacation home market though, so make sure you are okay with that either way from both a mental and financial standpoint. It may not always be something that can be quickly liquidated like it is currently, but I assume that is a well thought out part of anyone's plans to purchase a vacation home and especially in more seasonally based locations.

 

[Jilly]

Something of interest came up this morning. My landlord at Tremblant is seriously thinking of selling. The place is not all that great, decor wise. It's at least 25 years since anything really has been done. So I have another person that is interested in going in with me on buying it.

So, I called the bank, as I don't have cash sitting around right now. This particular bank will NOT lend money against anything up at Tremblant. WOW! So ladies if you're looking for resort real estate check that before you go into any contracts.

note; They also would not lend against any properties in the Collingwood area - our Blue Mountain. Another Alterra resort.

There are other ways which we are now looking into. When he called and said it's bad news, I thought was too far extended with my new place's loan. Nope, just won't lend against anything up there.

 

[Christy]

How come?

 

[Jilly]

I imagine burnt too many times with foreclosures. I don't have contacts at other banks. He has suggested a route that would work, but not tax wise down the road. But I don't have anyone that I need to give my estate to so, maybe I shouldn't really worry about that kind of stuff.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

There's a condo complex in Killington, Vermont I believe where it's hard to get a mortgage. I can't recall the details but was it something specific to the complex. There are always units for sale but unless you are paying cash forget about it.

 

[Jilly]

I know for a time insurance was an issue with a group of condo's. They were put up too fast and short cuts were taken.

This "no" makes me think that this about the # of bad debts. Too many people are getting the minimum needed and crossing their fingers that the STR market holds up.

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

There's a condo complex in Killington, Vermont I believe where it's hard to get a mortgage. I can't recall the details but was it something specific to the complex. There are always units for sale but unless you are paying cash forget about it.

I think maybe Mountain Green? They had a huge assessment apparently, so nobody wants to finance anything in it I thought I read. Lots of units for sale for "cheap" but of course you are on the hook for the assessment too--so not as cheap as meets the eye.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

I think maybe Mountain Green? They had a huge assessment apparently, so nobody wants to finance anything in it I thought I read. Lots of units for sale for "cheap" but of course you are on the hook for the assessment too--so not as cheap as meets the eye.

That's the one. Thought it had something to do with assessments.

 

[Jilly]

I had a call from the bank this morning. The reason they would not offer a mortgage is that to use is as short term rental (either Air BnB or resort management) is that there is no lease, so no steady money coming in. I guess I can understand that thinking.

 

[RachelV]

I had a call from the bank this morning. The reason they would not offer a mortgage is that to use is as short term rental (either Air BnB or resort management) is that there is no lease, so no steady money coming in. I guess I can understand that thinking.

So... if it's a second home / vacation home, they want proof that you'll have income from it to cover the costs of ownership? It's weird to me that they're not just using what I thought was the standard "how much are the payments on your debt every month and how much do you make every month" calculation. Does that change when you're closer to retirement and they think maybe your income will be changing dramatically?

 

[Jilly]

They just want to be sure they will get paid. There was no option to say that I could cover a mortgage at all. As soon as they had the address, it was a no go.

 

[Lorraine S Taylor]

Mt. Crested Butte fits the price point (but not the drive). I will mention, pay attention to amenities and HOA fees. Pools are great, until they need serious maintenance. We owned a condo in Winter Park and had to rebuild the entire clubhouse. Also, there can a big difference between HOA costs between resorts towns based on how far away the service community lives.

Agree HOA fees can be high.

 

[Luvs2ski]

There's a condo complex in Killington, Vermont I believe where it's hard to get a mortgage. I can't recall the details but was it something specific to the complex. There are always units for sale but unless you are paying cash forget about it.

Same in the Stratton VT area;,looked at a few condo communities that do not allow any bank funding; cash only.

 

[Luvs2ski]

We took the plunge last year and bought a condo in VT; we’re on Bromley, but a short drive to Stratton (we have ikon passes), Magic and Killington is about an hour away. As many have said, it’s a lifestyle. My husband is not a huge skier and that area has other things to do (Manchester shops and restaurants) vs other places in VT that I love ((Mad River Valley). We don’t rent it and we do use it in the Summer/Fall; I’m heading up this weekend. We are seriously considering a move to VT permanently, but the healthcare is a concern. We live an hour from Boaton and are spoiled with a plethora of medical care. We’re both healthy …but we are in our 50s, so need to be realistic about what life looks like every day. Our decision was hard, since we didn’t the seasonal rental thing for a few years. We rented for 6 months but really only used it on weekends, and decided having our own place was really what we wanted. It’s not affordable with the HOA fees, but again, our realtor pointed out all the costs of plowing, lawn care in Summer, maintenance, caretaking, etc with a home and we decided condo made more sense to alleviate some headaches being 2.5 hrs away. ….and it has; our HOA maintenance is great! Long term, we are confident that we could sell it or sue it as an investment by renting, should we move. I know we will not live in it if we do move up there;,it’s not all that big and the hubs and I may kill each other! Right now, it makes me very happy and he enjoys it as well ….so, maybe not the most cost effective but hard to put a price on your happiness, right?!

 

[Trailside Trixie]

We took the plunge last year and bought a condo in VT; we’re on Bromley, but a short drive to Stratton (we have ikon passes), Magic and Killington is about an hour away. As many have said, it’s a lifestyle. My husband is not a huge skier and that area has other things to do (Manchester shops and restaurants) vs other places in VT that I love ((Mad River Valley). We don’t rent it and we do use it in the Summer/Fall; I’m heading up this weekend. We are seriously considering a move to VT permanently, but the healthcare is a concern. We live an hour from Boaton and are spoiled with a plethora of medical care. We’re both healthy …but we are in our 50s, so need to be realistic about what life looks like every day. Our decision was hard, since we didn’t the seasonal rental thing for a few years. We rented for 6 months but really only used it on weekends, and decided having our own place was really what we wanted. It’s not affordable with the HOA fees, but again, our realtor pointed out all the costs of plowing, lawn care in Summer, maintenance, caretaking, etc with a home and we decided condo made more sense to alleviate some headaches being 2.5 hrs away. ….and it has; our HOA maintenance is great! Long term, we are confident that we could sell it or sue it as an investment by renting, should we move. I know we will not live in it if we do move up there;,it’s not all that big and the hubs and I may kill each other! Right now, it makes me very happy and he enjoys it as well ….so, maybe not the most cost effective but hard to put a price on your happiness, right?!

Bromley village is great. We were contemplating buying there if moving to VT to time but taxes and Healthcare are a concern fot retirement. Looking out west now. We have s small condo at magic Mountain. I ski Magic and bromley most of the winter. Work at bromley as well with adaptive ski school and courtesy (orange coats scanning lift tickets).

Getting a condo is definitely an investment and one we're glad we did.

Although we've had 2 resistances now for 7 years and sometimes get tired of buying double of everything. Looking forward to the day when we're out west with only one residence to maintain.

 

[Luvs2ski]

Bromley village is great. We were contemplating buying there if moving to VT to time but taxes and Healthcare are a concern fot retirement. Looking out west now. We have s small condo at magic Mountain. I ski Magic and bromley most of the winter. Work at bromley as well with adaptive ski school and courtesy (orange coats scanning lift tickets).

Getting a condo is definitely an investment and one we're glad we did.

Although we've had 2 resistances now for 7 years and sometimes get tired of buying double of everything. Looking forward to the day when we're out west with only one residence to maintain.

Agreed, maintaining 2 residences is a lot; as I currently pack up a bag of laundry detergent, paper towel and toilet paper to bring up this weekend I am still digging deep into the medical care up there. Our son has his eyes set on UT, so way forward thinking, if he ends up out there permanently, we may have to regroup. I mean, I would hate living in Park City….but better save us some cash #daydreaming

 

[pinto]

I think we're at a real tipping point with this assumption and I wonder what will happen due to homeowner's insurance issues. CO (like my home state in WA) is one of 18 states where insurance companies are losing money and owners are seeing rates skyrocket or they are being cancelled altogether. We are dealing with this with our second home in WA. While it is in a very desirable outdoorsy area where prices have risen rapidly in recent years I can easily imagine a future where we lose insurance (actually our policy renewal coming up is not a given already) and if no buyer can get insurance, who would buy it? How would it appreciate? I think in years past a condo in a high elevation town like Crested Butte might have seemed somewhat safe but look at the fire in the town of Jasper, or the Marshall fire near Denver. As much as I love our place I think it probably would have been a lot smarter from an investment perspective to rent and let someone else assume the risk of skyrocketing or losing insurance, burning down, etc. Of course there is a lot to be said for the happiness of having it right now but we are taking a risk.

Yeah this stuff is slightly terrifying for those of us in gorgeous areas, isn't it. My house has almost tripled since I bought, which is wonderful (sort of -- I'm not a fan of the forces that have caused that, but a different discussion...), and I have been counting on that as a chunk of my retirement plan because I imagine I won't be out here forever, as my kids and parents are still in Denver. Now I am having to reassess a little bit. Still, I am close enough to Aspen that it is a different world as far as real estate, and in Aspen the billionaires ARE truly kicking out the millionaires, so hopefully some poor multimillionaire with cash and the ability to self-insure will save my ass if it does come to the worst.

As for condos, I have been a part owner with family (cousins, parents, etc) in a slopeside place at Copper for 20 yr, and it has been a wonderful experience. We did have a substantial insurance increase last year. But part of what has made the experience so good is that we are quarter owners, and so all the fees and increases and the like are mitigated by having three other parties to share with. It's only a 2br, so we can't all use it at the same time, but that hasn't been a problem. Obviously owning with other people carries some different dynamics as well, but we are all pretty chill and just let others use it when it isn't our week, or trade weeks if we want to change something ahead of time, whatever. I guess you need to know what you are going into, aka who you are going into it with, but shared ownership has allowed us most of the usage we ever would want at only a quarter of the expense. So that is one thought. But yeah, as others have said, a purchase expecting appreciation might not be the thing right now. Unless it is a very desirable location, or you are young enough to ride out whatever might be happening in the next few years.