Daydream with me: ski condo

[Briski]

@WaterGirl this is where I landed in buying in Crested Butte. Sure, as a working person I can fork over 15k a year for lodging. But when I’m 70, retired, and costs are even higher, it seems unlikely. I consider the condo an investment in my skiing future. One that will likely also increase in value.

It is true though, headaches and ALWAYS at the condo instead of some other new destination.

 

[Christy]

One that will likely also increase in value.

I think we're at a real tipping point with this assumption and I wonder what will happen due to homeowner's insurance issues. CO (like my home state in WA) is one of 18 states where insurance companies are losing money and owners are seeing rates skyrocket or they are being cancelled altogether. We are dealing with this with our second home in WA. While it is in a very desirable outdoorsy area where prices have risen rapidly in recent years I can easily imagine a future where we lose insurance (actually our policy renewal coming up is not a given already) and if no buyer can get insurance, who would buy it? How would it appreciate? I think in years past a condo in a high elevation town like Crested Butte might have seemed somewhat safe but look at the fire in the town of Jasper, or the Marshall fire near Denver. As much as I love our place I think it probably would have been a lot smarter from an investment perspective to rent and let someone else assume the risk of skyrocketing or losing insurance, burning down, etc. Of course there is a lot to be said for the happiness of having it right now but we are taking a risk.

 

[Briski]

I think we're at a real tipping point with this assumption and I wonder what will happen due to homeowner's insurance issues. CO (like my home state in WA) is one of 18 states where insurance companies are losing money and owners are seeing rates skyrocket or they are being cancelled altogether. We are dealing with this with our second home in WA. While it is in a very desirable outdoorsy area where prices have risen rapidly in recent years I can easily imagine a future where we lose insurance (actually our policy renewal coming up is not a given already) and if no buyer can get insurance, who would buy it? How would it appreciate? I think in years past a condo in a high elevation town like Crested Butte might have seemed somewhat safe but look at the fire in the town of Jasper, or the Marshall fire near Denver. As much as I love our place I think it probably would have been a lot smarter from an investment perspective to rent and let someone else assume the risk of skyrocketing or losing insurance, burning down, etc. Of course there is a lot to be said for the happiness of having it right now but we are taking a risk.

Well, certainly hoping. I sure never thought houses and condos would cost what they do. We had just sold in Louisville when the Marshall fire happened- that house still stands less than a quarter mile from those that are gone. Insurance cost is concern, people in CB south are seeing huge increases.

 

[marzNC]

This is an entirely theoretical question for at least the next 12 years. After that, though, my husband and I would be interested in buying a ski condo somewhere. My job is flexible enough that we could be based out of it probably 5-6 weeks in season, plus the whole summer if we wanted. Would need to be less than $500,000 for a one-bedroom. Driving distance from the mid-Atlantic would be a big bonus.

Oh, and decently reliable early season conditions would be a big plus. My schedule is partly tied to a university, so I have more flexibility from mid-December to mid-January than during the rest of the year. But I do realize that may not be compatible with "driving distance from the mid-Atlantic."

We would definitely do a seasonal rental before buying anywhere. However, we have a family situation that makes buying more appealing than continuing to rent every year. My son has a very significant developmental disability, and it is difficult to travel with him because rentals are not set up for his safety (he needs door alarms and childproofed kitchen cabinets, among other things). This will be true for his whole life. I wouldn't anticipate having him come with us for long periods of time, since he will have support staff at home that wouldn't be able to travel with him. But it would be very nice if he could come with us for short vacations, and we really need to have ownership of a place for that to happen so that we can make the necessary modifications.

Been thinking about the "driving distance from the mid-Atlantic" aspect. The closest place worth considering for winter recreation is West Virginia. Either at Snowshoe or in Davis, WV. Timberline is fantastic under the ownership of the Perfect family. Canaan Valley has good terrain for the region but has been lagging in the snowmaking area in recent years. CV is owned and operated by WV State Parks. White Grass for nordic is right between Timberline and CV. Between fantastic snowmaking and natural snowfall, Timberline has one of the longest seasons in the mid-Atlantic. Plenty of good hiking and other activities in WV during the green seasons.

DCSki includes long time members who own at Snowshoe and around Davis. There are past discussions when someone has asked for advice about whether to buy, or wait, or give up the idea entirely.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

This is an entirely theoretical question for at least the next 12 years. After that, though, my husband and I would be interested in buying a ski condo somewhere. My job is flexible enough that we could be based out of it probably 5-6 weeks in season, plus the whole summer if we wanted. Would need to be less than $500,000 for a one-bedroom. Driving distance from the mid-Atlantic would be a big bonus.

Given those constraints, what area's real estate listings should I be idly browsing?

Mt Sutton currently a front-runner, although the exchange rate advantage may be disappearing as I type.

Mont sutton is a favorite of ours. We go every year. Next season we're going twice.

 

[Sarabeth]

Been thinking about the "driving distance from the mid-Atlantic" aspect. The closest place worth considering for winter recreation is West Virginia. Either at Snowshoe or in Davis, WV. Timberline is fantastic under the ownership of the Perfect family. Canaan Valley has good terrain for the region but has been lagging in the snowmaking area in recent years. CV is owned and operated by WV State Parks. White Grass for nordic is right between Timberline and CV. Between fantastic snowmaking and natural snowfall, Timberline has one of the longest seasons in the mid-Atlantic. Plenty of good hiking and other activities in WV during the green seasons.

DCSki includes long time members who own at Snowshoe and around Davis. There are past discussions when someone has asked for advice about whether to buy, or wait, or give up the idea entirely.

We go to Canaan Valley at least twice a year—before I started downhill again, I’d been Nordic skiing for the previous decade, and White Grass is the only reliable option anywhere near here.

For daydreaming purposes, though, I’m looking further afield.

 

[ChilliHeeler]

Following this thread as it's one of the discussions the husband and I have been having. We have been looking at Utah and Durango to buy; Utah has more options for places to ski and a major airport very close. I'm suggesting we try a short term rental in any of the places (to test what Jilly and MarzNC point out) and see if full time snow is for us.

Durango seems like a lot of fun during the summer months beside the ski months. That would be a major perk of having a vacation home, something with multi-season appeal.

 

[marzNC]

Following this thread as it's one of the discussions the husband and I have been having. We have been looking at Utah and Durango to buy; Utah has more options for places to ski and a major airport very close. I'm suggesting we try a short term rental in any of the places (to test what Jilly and MarzNC point out) and see if full time snow is for us.

Would you consider Boise or Bozeman as having a "major airport"? Both have had more flights scheduled by multiple airlines in recent years.

Bridger Bowl has plenty of terrain. It's been a non-profit for decades. I know people who have a place there and never ski Big Sky.

Bogus Basin is the other large non-profit in that region. Boise and the surrounding towns are continuing to grow into a metropolitan area. However coming from the east, it still has the feel of a small city. The drive from Boise to Bogus is a mountain road that takes 45-60 minutes. What's unusual is how much night skiing terrain is available, including relatively long black trails.

I talked to a young couple who moved to Boise from the PacNW several years ago. They got a Brundage season pass to start with. Planned to switch to Tamarack next season. That's a shorter drive from Boise and has somewhere longer runs.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

We're actually considering a move to boise. We were set on bend Oregon but retirement money is apparently more favorably treated in Idaho. It's also 5 hours to bend so long weekends will work there.

I've a friend who lives near noise and skis bogus so he gave us the lay of the land.

Still love bend so considering both

 

[Christy]

We're actually considering a move to boise. We were set on bend Oregon but retirement money is apparently more favorably treated in Idaho. It's also 5 hours to bend so long weekends will work there.

I've a friend who lives near noise and skis bogus so he gave us the lay of the land.

Still love bend so considering both

Maybe you've spent a lot of time there already but if not, I'd definitely do that before committing. I used to go to Boise for work and boy was it unappealing to me. The harsh climate, the brown landscape, the preponderance of strip malls and fast food joints and big loud trucks, how hard it was to find anything decent to eat (the grocery stores are the bottom of the barrel chains)...I also wonder about the drive to Bend in winter--that's on a minor highway through a very remote part of the US with long distances between tiny towns.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

Maybe you've spent a lot of time there already but if not, I'd definitely do that before committing. I used to go to Boise for work and boy was it unappealing to me. The harsh climate, the brown landscape, the preponderance of strip malls and fast food joints and big loud trucks, how hard it was to find anything decent to eat (the grocery stores are the bottom of the barrel chains)...I also wonder about the drive to Bend in winter--that's on a minor highway through a very remote part of the US with long distances between tiny towns.

All stuff to think about. We'll visit our friend and go from there. Bend wouldn't be an all the time thing, just periodically. Going to investigate more. Idaho is friendlier fire retirees than Oregon . Still investigating. Will be hard to top people bend.

 

[Emms]

Every time I dream about buying a place in Whistler, I think about it being an investment of a million dollars of my money in climate stability, and then I am happy to rent.

Seriously -- Vail knows which way the wind is blowing here. They have spent the last 5 years making sure every upload from the valley is a gondola because they know the lower mountain is not going to be sustainable for skiing.

I used to live there, and I miss it desperately, but I can also get a seasonal rental for the amount of interest I can spin off the principal I'd need to put down for even a lousy condo. Plus we're well overdue for a big correction, last one was post-Olympics and it's just been up like a rocket ever since.

At least this is what I tell myself every time I get an attack of nostalgia and start looking at listings...

 

[Jilly]

My rental is bascially the fees the owner has to pay each year. Hydro, condo fees and taxes. It's not a palace, but it's on the hill and I have a parking space. The unit across the deck came on the market this week. I'm not sure if the guy is dreaming that he will get that much money for it.

 

[Susan L]

My rental is bascially the fees the owner has to pay each year. Hydro, condo fees and taxes. It's not a palace, but it's on the hill and I have a parking space. The unit across the deck came on the market this week. I'm not sure if the guy is dreaming that he will get that much money for it.

All he needs is one person desperate enough for a mountain home to fall for it.

 

[elemmac]

Following along on this thread because I had been considering buying land and building a place in VT (not really interested in a condo due to not wanting to deal with an HOA). Ultimately decided that owning a second home would be more of a headache than I want to take on--Mostly I am interested in being there winter only so it would be empty much of the year and I'd need to go back and forth to check on it/deal with any and all issues that come up up--and there will be issues. Summer season does not really interest me up there, as I keep extensive flower gardens at home and cannot leave them for extended periods of time. Plus having to take flooding into account and not buy land that would likely to flood.

Food for thought here (not just to you, but to anyone considering a second home purchase): I was in a similar boat, not wanting to deal with an HOA and all the rules/regulations that come with it. However, I ended up with a condo, and now happy I did. Not having to deal with plowing/snow removal, checking in regularly, trash removal, many of those miscellaneous issues, etc... puts your mind at ease. Of course, there are good and bad that come with either option (house or condo), but I'll say I've enjoyed having a condo more than I thought I would.

Of course there is a lot to be said for the happiness of having it right now but we are taking a risk.

While looking for ski condos/houses to buy, my husband and I were told that "this is a lifestyle purchase, not an investment". We were okay with that...we were investing into the lifestyle we want.

And as a bonus, with where the real estate market has gone, it's actually been a good investment.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

We're lucky with our HOA in Vermont as it also includes utilities so our only bill is cable.

CT hoa bill does not be that's ok. What's killing us in CT is our $300 to 500 a month electric bill. Our friends in Meridian, Idaho pay $80 pr so a month for utilities, for a house.

Upside is nlth our associations are hands off and aren't militant about what we can do, can't do.

One possible downside to consider is having a 2nd home kinda locks your ski area down. Meaning since we have our condo we are less motivated to go to a farther away mountain that would require lodging.

Bonus is we have 10 ski areas within 2 hours so just pick your 2nd location wisely and you'll be fine

 

[Christy]

While looking for ski condos/houses to buy, my husband and I were told that "this is a lifestyle purchase, not an investment". We were okay with that...we were investing into the lifestyle we want.

And as a bonus, with where the real estate market has gone, it's actually been a good investment.

I hear what you are saying and that's how I thought of it too, but here in the fire prone West, I don't mean that it just might not turn out to be a good real estate investment in the normal way. I mean we could lose all insurance options and the bank could foreclose; or we'd try to sell and no one will buy it because they can't get insurance; or that it burns down and the neighborhood remains a place you don't want to be for years/decades. I knew of the fire risk of course but I thought being in a "Firewise" community meant more than it turns out to mean, and I feel rather deceived by Allstate who said yes absolutely no problem when we got a very reasonable insurance quote before we put the offer in, and now less than a year in has threatened to non-renew our policy. People are losing coverage left and right here and only 1 insurer will write new policies and they are $$$$. Had my insurance company been more transparent about this when we originally engaged them I don't think we would have bought here. I dearly love the house and area but things could end badly.

 

[Christy]

CT hoa bill does not be that's ok. What's killing us in CT is our $300 to 500 a month electric bill. Our friends in Meridian, Idaho pay $80 pr so a month for utilities, for a house.

Holy cow that's a lot per month. Here in WA we have public/nonprofit cheap hydro power and it's usually ranked as the cheapest state in the West for electricity; I pay about $80 a month in warmer months (when we aren't using heat) for my 2 bd house that uses an energy efficient heat pump. In the winter it's more like $160 but our winters are mild compared to ID and we rarely use the AC feature in summer. Is the Meridian $80/month amount year round? That is surprising if so.

 

[Tvan]

We dreamed about a slopes-side condo for years, and consistently rented in the same location for a decade. We went so far as to meet with the realtor and draw up back-of-the-napkin reno plans. I had a killer bunk room planned.

Lots of things changed during the pandemic, and our desire for a second property was one of those things. I’m glad in retrospect that we did not pursue a purchase, because we would never have been able to build this house and live in VT full-time if we had bought a condo elsewhere.

 

[KayOss]

Wow - such valid points from everyone and all things to be considered. Insurance, HOA's (condo or not), proximity to a variety of ski areas, shopping, dining, etc.
We have not been to Montana or central Idaho for skiing but need to add to the list.
After spending time in the PNW this winter I realized that I do "operate" better with sunshine but I guess that comes from spending almost 40 years in So Cal.