Daydream with me: ski condo

[Sarabeth]

This is an entirely theoretical question for at least the next 12 years. After that, though, my husband and I would be interested in buying a ski condo somewhere. My job is flexible enough that we could be based out of it probably 5-6 weeks in season, plus the whole summer if we wanted. Would need to be less than $500,000 for a one-bedroom. Driving distance from the mid-Atlantic would be a big bonus.

Given those constraints, what area's real estate listings should I be idly browsing?

Mt Sutton currently a front-runner, although the exchange rate advantage may be disappearing as I type.

 

[Sarabeth]

Oh, and decently reliable early season conditions would be a big plus. My schedule is partly tied to a university, so I have more flexibility from mid-December to mid-January than during the rest of the year. But I do realize that may not be compatible with "driving distance from the mid-Atlantic."

 

[Briski]

Mt. Crested Butte fits the price point (but not the drive). I will mention, pay attention to amenities and HOA fees. Pools are great, until they need serious maintenance. We owned a condo in Winter Park and had to rebuild the entire clubhouse. Also, there can a big difference between HOA costs between resorts towns based on how far away the service community lives.

 

[marzNC]

A friend of mine who lives in DC bought a condo in Colorado a few years ago. He's still working but can do WFH for 2-3 weeks at a time. I think he decided that being able to fly into Denver to ski in the Rockies made more sense than driving long distance from DC to ski in the northeast.

I've been making the drive from NC to South Fork to ski Wolf Creek in mid-December for several years. I meet up with friends and we share a large house for 10 days or so. If you don't mind a very small town with limited options for eating out and a 20 minute drive to the nearest full-size supermarket, could be a good place to consider. The drive to the ski area is about 30 minutes.

Wolf Creek is typically 100% open by Dec. 11. That's been the case for the past four years.

Here's my latest trip report.

TR Wolf Creek Dec. 8-16, 2024

We have finished the second day of what's become an annual early season trip to ski Wolf Creek in Colorado. @TNtoTaos and I drove from the southeast, together with Rita, and arrived on Dec. 7. Bill and Jason arrived the next day. We're in the same house in South Fork we were in last year...

www.theskidiva.com

 

[marzNC]

Oh, and decently reliable early season conditions would be a big plus. My schedule is partly tied to a university, so I have more flexibility from mid-December to mid-January than during the rest of the year. But I do realize that may not be compatible with "driving distance from the mid-Atlantic."

Would you consider Lake George "driving distance?" How far from a ski area would be ideal? Would an hour drive be too long?

My father was a professor in NYC. He didn't teach during the summers. But my family weren't skiers so considering going somewhere with snowy slopes wasn't a consideration.

One of the condos I rented at Big Sky was owned by a professor from TN. However, he and his brother bought long before the real estate prices started going up steadily.

I also know of someone who has a place in Bozeman. Bridger is their home mountain. Even though Big Sky is only an hour away, they don't ski there very often. Bridger is a non-profit with very reasonable season passes and plenty of terrain at all levels. All my trips to Big Sky have included a few days at Bridger.

 

[Bsheresq]

My husband and I have also been asking this theoretical ski home question, and have considered Vermont and Utah. But I now lean toward renting in a particular location instead. Costs are dramatically reduced, you have none of the headache and expense of upkeep and you are protected from potential risk due to climate change. Moreover, you can change destinations from year to year if you so desire.

 

[Jilly]

I would suggest renting a condo for a season where ever you're thinking of. Visiting and living near a ski resort is different than living in an urban environment.

You'll get an idea of the pros and cons of where you're thinking of. I've been at Tremblant doing a seasonal rental for about 16 years. I love the local people here. I love the terrain of the ski hill. I hate the crowds of entitled tourists and the 4 1/2 hr drive to and from the mountain. But I keep thinking that when I retire I can just be here. Not just ski holidays and weekends.

Visiting a friend with a place (her actual home) at Mont Ste Anne, lead to me see skiing full time differently. She has to drive to the mountain, or take a local bus. But MSA doesn't have the night life, apres ski vibe that Tremblant has as a resort. It was quieter than Tremblant and such a nice change. Her drive was all of 5 min. But it felt like miles away from the hill. The vibe was much more relaxed. We had people over for drinks or a meal instead of spending time in a bar.

Sutton is very rural. But there is lots of skiing, hiking/biking in the summer too.

 

[KayOss]

Following this thread as it's one of the discussions the husband and I have been having. We have been looking at Utah and Durango to buy; Utah has more options for places to ski and a major airport very close. I'm suggesting we try a short term rental in any of the places (to test what Jilly and MarzNC point out) and see if full time snow is for us.

 

[Susan L]

I’d do a seasonal rental to test out the idea first. I have been renting seasonally at my home mountain (3hrs away) for 8 years before buying. Was it nice to have my own place? Sure and I use it maybe 4 months out of the year and it will sit empty for the remaining 8 months. It is expensive to own a 2nd home - HOA, utilities, internet, insurance, taxes all adds up. We used to spend $6000/season for 3 months of rental, then it became $7500/season and our budget was $10k before we bought a place. That was my justification to buy instead of rent. It sounded expensive but even $15k/season is less expensive than spending $500k+ on a place that we don’t live in full time but have to maintain. And who knows how many more years we get to ski. If we don’t ski anymore, there is no reason for us to have this vacation home. I am still enjoying it but it sure is not as attractive as I thought it would be. We have no mortgage but spending thousands a month when it sits empty is enough of an ouch. Now I understand why my husband would rather rent than buy because he could just walk away at the end of the ski season and not think about the home again until next season. Zero responsibilities.

 

[Sarabeth]

Sutton is very rural. But there is lots of skiing, hiking/biking in the summer too.

Yes, part of the appeal of Sutton is that the summer activities are great, so we'd likely get more use out of a place there than we would at some other resorts that are more purely winter destinations. And having more than one ski area within a relatively short drive if we want to change things up.

But you are also correct that, the more time we spend there, the more we may want to be in a slightly more populated area so that have alternatives other than skiing.

 

[Sarabeth]

We would definitely do a seasonal rental before buying anywhere. However, we have a family situation that makes buying more appealing than continuing to rent every year. My son has a very significant developmental disability, and it is difficult to travel with him because rentals are not set up for his safety (he needs door alarms and childproofed kitchen cabinets, among other things). This will be true for his whole life. I wouldn't anticipate having him come with us for long periods of time, since he will have support staff at home that wouldn't be able to travel with him. But it would be very nice if he could come with us for short vacations, and we really need to have ownership of a place for that to happen so that we can make the necessary modifications.

 

[Christy]

For me the hard part of this would be predicting where I'd want to be and what things will be like in 12 years. The ski landscape has changed so much in the last 12! Alterra didn't even exist 12 years ago, Vail Resorts wasn't what it is now--will one of these gobble up your resort and make it unappealing? Climate stuff is more and more apparent--how will it affect where you want to ski? Prices went nuts pre vs post pandemic--where you can afford now might be unaffordable in 12 years.* Canada didn't restrict foreign real estate purchases 12 years ago but now you can't buy residential real estate in much of the country; right now they allow vacation home purchases in some places, but will they in 12 years?

*I dreamt of a cabin on Orcas Island WA for decades, pretty much my whole life, and by the time we were ready to buy last year we had been priced out for good. Who could have seen what the pandemic did to vacation home prices, and that so many tech money people would all decamp to MY favorite place?

Not that I'm trying to discourage daydreaming or lusting after properties on Redfin, which is a valid hobby.

 

[Sarabeth]

Would you consider Lake George "driving distance?" How far from a ski area would be ideal? Would an hour drive be too long?

My father was a professor in NYC. He didn't teach during the summers. But my family weren't skiers so considering going somewhere with snowy slopes wasn't a consideration.

One of the condos I rented at Big Sky was owned by a professor from TN. However, he and his brother bought long before the real estate prices started going up steadily.

I also know of someone who has a place in Bozeman. Bridger is their home mountain. Even though Big Sky is only an hour away, they don't ski there very often. Bridger is a non-profit with very reasonable season passes and plenty of terrain at all levels. All my trips to Big Sky have included a few days at Bridger.

Lake George definitely driving distance! Anywhere within 12 hours of DC would count in my book.

 

[Bsheresq]

I’d do a seasonal rental to test out the idea first. I have been renting seasonally at my home mountain (3hrs away) for 8 years before buying. Was it nice to have my own place? Sure and I use it maybe 4 months out of the year and it will sit empty for the remaining 8 months. It is expensive to own a 2nd home - HOA, utilities, internet, insurance, taxes all adds up. We used to spend $6000/season for 3 months of rental, then it became $7500/season and our budget was $10k before we bought a place. That was my justification to buy instead of rent. It sounded expensive but even $15k/season is less expensive than spending $500k+ on a place that we don’t live in full time but have to maintain. And who knows how many more years we get to ski. If we don’t ski anymore, there is no reason for us to have this vacation home. I am still enjoying it but it sure is not as attractive as I thought it would be. We have no mortgage but spending thousands a month when it sits empty is enough of an ouch. Now I understand why my husband would rather rent than buy because he could just walk away at the end of the ski season and not think about the home again until next season. Zero responsibilities.

That is exactly how I feel about owning v. renting, because I did the same math. Even if you rent out your property for part of the year to generate income, I think in a lot cases you’d be better off renting. In my case, my husband and I are in are low to mid50s (no kids). A decent two bedroom in any major ski area is going to cost at least $500k. I can rent for $15k a season for over thirty years before I spend $500,000. & $15k will rent you a nice place in most locations so long as you are not looking to be on mountain. Plus, there is the upside of flexibility. I know that if I owned a place somewhere I’d feel obligated to use it, even when I may prefer not to. I have family overseas who ski whom I’d love to join in Europe for a trip sometime, but if I own a place somewhere, I’m going to feel that it’s wasteful to ski elsewhere. Whereas, if I’m just renting, I can be flexible with my plans for a season with no worries. Plus I can get to ski in different places! We’re starting to test my theory. Rented for this last season in Vermont and had a great time, so we decided we’re going to spend 3+ months in Utah next year. Looking for a place there now!

 

[Bsheresq]

I would suggest renting a condo for a season where ever you're thinking of. Visiting and living near a ski resort is different than living in an urban environment.

You'll get an idea of the pros and cons of where you're thinking of. I've been at Tremblant doing a seasonal rental for about 16 years. I love the local people here. I love the terrain of the ski hill. I hate the crowds of entitled tourists and the 4 1/2 hr drive to and from the mountain. But I keep thinking that when I retire I can just be here. Not just ski holidays and weekends.

Visiting a friend with a place (her actual home) at Mont Ste Anne, lead to me see skiing full time differently. She has to drive to the mountain, or take a local bus. But MSA doesn't have the night life, apres ski vibe that Tremblant has as a resort. It was quieter than Tremblant and such a nice change. Her drive was all of 5 min. But it felt like miles away from the hill. The vibe was much more relaxed. We had people over for drinks or a meal instead of spending time in a bar.

Sutton is very rural. But there is lots of skiing, hiking/biking in the summer too.

That is sage advice. I rented in Vermont for the season. It’s a beautiful state, but it presented some challenges to this urban girl! For example, our house was in the countryside so you had to drive over hard pack dirt roads to get anywhere, which were extra challenging in weather and led to extra-filthy vehicles, vehicles but there are no car washes open most places during winter. There was no cell service for 10 minutes from the house until we got to a main road. There is no trash pick-up; you’ve got to buy a pass from the town and tickets at a general store to take your trash to the transfer station (open 3 days a week). The post office had strange hours (7:00am to 10am; 11:30am-2pm). It was often hard to find a place to eat lunch because most restaurants didn’t open until 4pm. & there is no food delivery, everything is take out only. I’m not suggesting that there is anything wrong with any of this, but these are generally not the quality of life issues one thinks of when you consider the concept of ski house. It was fine for us for a season but these issues could be dealbreakers for someone looking to own there long term.

 

[Susan L]

I can rent for $15k a season for over thirty years before I spend $500,000.

100% this. Now every problem is my problem and I cannot just walk away.

I know that if I owned a place somewhere I’d feel obligated to use it, even when I may prefer not to.

Exactly how I feel now. Ski season ended for me last week already. I’d love to take a break and stay home to catch up on sleep/chores. But because we own a place, we spent this weekend away and will continue to do so for the rest of April, until golf season begins. Then the next few long weekends will be spent at our vacation home too, because why not? Or why pay for hotel elsewhere when we have a place waiting for us.
As for skiing, we want to try other resorts too but we don’t really want to travel so we are ok committing to one mountain.

 

[marzNC]

Lake George definitely driving distance! Anywhere within 12 hours of DC would count in my book.

To learn more about skiing in NY, including Belleayre, Gore, and Whiteface, check out NYSkiBlog. They are on the same pass. None of these mountains have slopeside lodging. I expect real estate prices are lower than in Vermont. Doing day trips or short trips to Vermont or Québec would be possible. Obviously plenty of activities during all four seasons.

 

[Sarabeth]

For maximum daydreaming, currently looking at real estate listings in Cervinia. Surprisingly reasonable!

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

Following along on this thread because I had been considering buying land and building a place in VT (not really interested in a condo due to not wanting to deal with an HOA). Ultimately decided that owning a second home would be more of a headache than I want to take on--Mostly I am interested in being there winter only so it would be empty much of the year and I'd need to go back and forth to check on it/deal with any and all issues that come up up--and there will be issues. Summer season does not really interest me up there, as I keep extensive flower gardens at home and cannot leave them for extended periods of time. Plus having to take flooding into account and not buy land that would likely to flood.
Can totally see why the OP would need to buy with the family situation though. Make perfect sense.
For me, though I don't have a special situation, when I have looked into renting I cannot easily find places that would take cats, so it just seems to make more sense to keep doing one night hotel stays. But wouldn't mind a seasonal rental if the right property came along, as it would be nice to to have a place to stay long term.

 

[WaterGirl]

Seasonal rentals are a great way to figure out the area you want to be in. I did that for several years. However, where I’m at seasonal rentals became nearly impossible to find. I just looked at the rental company I used in the past and a one bedroom one bath condo is about 3500 per month for a seasonal rental. And not in the best area.

If you purchased pre pandemic you probably have at a minimum, doubled your investment. The prior posts do not take into account real estate appreciation or potential rental income.