Controlling a slide

[liquidfeet]

I found the article -- it's called "Arrest Yourself" by Hilaree O'Neill in the March/April issue of Skiing. It describes how to avoid "torpeoding head first down an icy face" by "self-arrest" using ski poles with grips that double as ice axes (by Black Diamond and Life-Link). It's a great article in a sea of tacky male adolescent articles.

I looked at the article. Those ski poles look dangerous to me. I think I'll pass.

 

[abc]

I dunno, this hasn't been difficult for me, I just swing my feet up and over my body to the downhill side. This is even with skis still attached (or, more usually, one ski).

I'm with CambridgeKate. I would simply curl up so my legs are in the air...

Now, GENTLY, very tenatively, put your ski downhill of you, perpenticular to the fall line. Don't set the edge yet. Just let the ski AND BOOT create some friction...

Then, get ready to set the edge! Realizing you're going to get a bit of a jolt when the ski's edge BITE into the ice. But, if it's so icy you're sliding non-stop, chances are the ski is going to side slip as well. Be ready to bend your knee to absorb the impact nonetheless. Then, you can take your time to pressure the edge until it holds.

One danger of setting the edge in a fast slide is the ski might break off because the binding simply releases as soon as the ski bites. So you really want to be patient with setting your ski down, AND MAKE SURE IT'S PERPENDICULAR TO THE FALL LINE! (or you start sliding sideway off the trail).

For those who're not quite as acrobat and can't get your ski downhill of you, you can also drag your ski and boot to slow yourself down, to the point that you can manuver to spin your legs downhill of you to do the above.

I've got myself back on my feet on a few of those "kitchen-tile" slopes that way.

 

[liquidfeet]

I'm with CambridgeKate. I would simply curl up so my legs are in the air...

Now, GENTLY, very tenatively, put your ski downhill of you, perpenticular to the fall line. Don't set the edge yet. Just let the ski AND BOOT create some friction...

Then, get ready to set the edge! Realizing you're going to get a bit of a jolt when the ski's edge BITE into the ice. But, if it's so icy you're sliding non-stop, chances are the ski is going to side slip as well. Be ready to bend your knee to absorb the impact nonetheless. Then, you can take your time to pressure the edge until it holds.

One danger of setting the edge in a fast slide is the ski might break off because the binding simply releases as soon as the ski bites. So you really want to be patient with setting your ski down, AND MAKE SURE IT'S PERPENDICULAR TO THE FALL LINE! (or you start sliding sideway off the trail).

For those who're not quite as acrobat and can't get your ski downhill of you, you can also drag your ski and boot to slow yourself down, to the point that you can manuver to spin your legs downhill of you to do the above.

I've got myself back on my feet on a few of those "kitchen-tile" slopes that way.

I can't quite see how this works, if I am sliding down on my back, looking up at the sky, going downhill fast head first on a steep icy slope. Curling up and putting a ski downhill of me doesn't bring up any workable visuals now, at least in my imagination.

Do you really mean curl myself up into a fetal-position-ball, sliding downhill on my neck with my back humped up and over my bellybutton, my skis hovering in the air over my face, then place a ski on the snow downhill of my snow-filled neck?? This sounds so dangerous, and although I did think of it while on the snow sliding I envisioned all kinds of broken body parts so didn't try it. Is this what you did?

Instead, I dug my ski edges into the snow uphill of the rest of me, my body held flat against the snow, digging ski edges in as best I could, but the slope was so steep and so icy that this did nothing to stop me. It just kept me from speeding up. That did prove useful, and when I got to a flatter section I slowed down and stopped.

Seems like there should be some way to flip the feet downhill more safely than this, and without using poles with saws connected to them. Hopefully this won't happen too often to too many of us, and never again to me, but you never know. The advice and conversation is good, and full of interesting ideas.

 

[abc]

I can do it but I'm not sure I'm describing it correctly. One thing I can thnk of is the next time you're out on the slope, just lay down on your back, but on a slope NOT icy, and see if you can curl up and bring the ski down hill of you? If you can do that while just laying there but NOT sliding, maybe you'll feel more comfortable when you need to do it sliding down some icy slope!

 

[lil mountain girl]

safety first!

here are my bailing tips:

1. feet downhill . . . if skis are on, you can sideslip them to slow yourself down; if no skis, then GRADUALLY apply pressure with both heels . . . think slow down vs. imediate stop

2. relax your body . . . this prevents injury . . . and decreases momentum potentiel

3. if available grab onto tree branches, etc. or use a pole, ski, or other device to apply a little friction to slow your slide

4. pre plan! if you're skiing a sketchy line with potentiel major fall hazard (ie: cliff bands to go over) make sure conditions are ok for your skiing ability and strategize (ie: if I fall there . . . what are my options?)

5. wear a helmet!!!

happy flailing!

 

[liquidfeet]

I can do it but I'm not sure I'm describing it correctly. One thing I can thnk of is the next time you're out on the slope, just lay down on your back, but on a slope NOT icy, and see if you can curl up and bring the ski down hill of you? If you can do that while just laying there but NOT sliding, maybe you'll feel more comfortable when you need to do it sliding down some icy slope!

I have trouble doing this in my bedroom without skis. It's what I think is called a backwards roll. You lie down facing the ceiling, curl up in the fetal position with your weight on your back, knees to chest, fast enough with some momentum, keeping your neck on the floor while the feet travel over your head and back down to the floor out of sight beyond your head. Your head and the back of your neck bears all your weight while you are rolling over backwards, until your feet hit the floor out of eyesight behind your head. Then you push on the floor with your hands and finally pick up your head, finding yourself in a crouch on all fours. Or do it without use of hands.

Is this what you mean? A backwards roll?

 

[altagirl]

I have trouble doing this in my bedroom without skis. It's what I think is called a backwards roll. You lie down facing the ceiling, curl up in the fetal position with your weight on your back, knees to chest, fast enough with some momentum, keeping your neck on the floor while the feet travel over your head and back down to the floor out of sight beyond your head. Your head and the back of your neck bears all your weight while you are rolling over backwards, until your feet hit the floor out of eyesight behind your head. Then you push on the floor with your hands and finally pick up your head, finding yourself in a crouch on all fours. Or do it without use of hands.

Is this what you mean? A backwards roll?

I can't imagine that's what she means. Any sort of roll over your head is only likely to get you tomahawking downhill. Just pull your knees in to your chest and spin around while on your back, or your side, or whatever you're sliding on and use that momentum from pulling your knees in to spin yourself around so your feet are going downhill and then straighten them back out to stop rotating. Don't try to flip over, just rotate around. And then I still recommend using the tip of your pole, if you still have one, vs. digging an edge in when you're moving that fast, but it's up to you. I've only had one sliding type of fall in the past few years, but the pole tip to self arrest worked wonderfully - just remember to grab the pole tip with the opposite hand, don't mess with straps.

 

[liquidfeet]

Just pull your knees in to your chest and spin around while on your back, or your side, or whatever you're sliding on and use that momentum from pulling your knees in to spin yourself around so your feet are going downhill and then straighten them back out to stop rotating. Don't try to flip over, just rotate around.

OK, the light is dawning. If I pull my feet up to my chest, skis and all, perhaps I will magicallly rotate around so my feet are downhill. I will still be on my back with my face looking up into the sky, but I'll be looking through my knees/boots/skis, and perhaps some shift of weight involved in that curling up movement will swivel me around so my legs are downhill (finally)!!!!! I may need to dig in a pole, or not, to accomplish this swivelling. And it may not work, but trying seems like a good idea.

The problem before when I got myself into this annoying situation was always how to get the darn feet downhill of my head. This suggestion is not scary. If it happens again (hope not), then this I'll try.

 

[abc]

Thanks, altagirl, for giving a much clearer description of what I really meant. (Jeez, I'd better re-consider my aspiration for teaching. I seem to be able to make something simply sound complicated ;) )

Liquidfeet, I still suggest you try the "roll" on a slope with skis on. I think that would help your confidence that you can self-arrest if you fall in steep slopes. BTW, on a steeper slope, the "roll" is actually easier because the gravity will grab the weight of the ski, which is heavier than your head, and pull it down the hill below your head.

 

[Gloria]

if you don't have ice ax poles

The correct way to arrest a slide if you don't have "ice axe" poles is to use a sliding/slamming motion with your poles. You will ideally not have your pole straps around your wrist so you can slide both hands down the length of the pole to above the basket and slam the tips into the snow. Wanting to avoid shoulder injury, you would keep your arms as close in to your body as possible, trying to drag an arm as a rutter, or reach over to grab a pole could increase the possibily of a rotator cuff or wrist injury.
There are more compelling reasons to ski with your pole straps off than on. Yes they can get looped in branches etc, but if you ski off piste in avalanche prone areas, you want to leave them off as well.
By having them off you increase your chances of survival if you do get caught in a slough or slide. With your pole straps on it is more difficult to swim if you get caught in a slide as well as the most important last ditch method of cupping your hands over your face
to create an air pocket if you are getting buried. They have also found that skiers whom do get buried deep in avalanches have been pulled under and head first by their pole straps.
I always weigh the option of am I really going to drop one of my poles or not and then ussually leave the straps off.

 

[abc]

I'm not so sure if this "using the pole as an ice axe" works with skis.

When you're sliding head first on your back, the first order of business is to spin yourself around so you're legs down first.

Otherwise, if you jam the pole into the snow/ice while sliding head first, you're going to flip over and lose your pole!

But if you do get yourself spin around to legs downhill, it's actually just as easy to just use the ski to slow yourself down till you stop.

 

[Pequenita]

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but do you gals actually frequently fall on ice at high speeds and slide your heads going downhill, on your backs and with your skis still on? Or are we all just working with hypotheticals here? Because honestly, the times I've slid on ice and my skis haven't released, it's because my edges were not sharp and the skis went out from under me. Which means my legs and skis were already downhill.

 

[altagirl]

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but do you gals actually frequently fall on ice at high speeds and slide your heads going downhill, on your backs and with your skis still on? Or are we all just working with hypotheticals here? Because honestly, the times I've slid on ice and my skis haven't released, it's because my edges were not sharp and the skis went out from under me. Which means my legs and skis were already downhill.

A sliding fall has happened to me... once, that I can think of. In 23 years and probably thousands of ski days. So definitely not any sort of regular occurrence. But, somone had explained the ski pole tip as an ice axe technique and it worked really well. So not that it happens much by any means, but I'm not just being hypothetical here either.

 

[Gloria]

not often but good to know

Although it doesn't happen often, it is a good thing to be aware of.
The scariest thing I have ever seen skiing yet was a woman nearly slide to her death out of a steep chute last summer. She initially tried to roll over and use her feet but ended up losing both skis and cartwheeling several times until she landed again on her back (injured ) and slid straight for a rockcropping headfirst at about 40mph with no helmet.
She missed it literally by inches and walked away with a broken wrist
and some other minor injuries. I would definately at least try to slow myself down with my poles before trying to roll over and lay an edge in after watching her.

 

[SnowGlider]

High speed not necessary

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but do you gals actually frequently fall on ice at high speeds and slide your heads going downhill, on your backs and with your skis still on? Or are we all just working with hypotheticals here? Because honestly, the times I've slid on ice and my skis haven't released, it's because my edges were not sharp and the skis went out from under me. Which means my legs and skis were already downhill.

I've had two steep sliding falls in 5 years of skiing. One at cautious speed and the other barely moving. Both times I picked up speed very rapidly as I slid on my back---you're wearing nylon, after all.

My skis didn't release either time.

Apparently head first is the way the body wants to go.

A third sliding fall happened toward the bottom of the bottom of the mountain, not steep at all, but I was going pretty fast and caught an edge in a rut. That time my helmet certainly saved me from severe injury and I did sustain a longterm head/neck/back compression injury.

 

[ski diva]

I've been skiing for a loooong time, and have had only one really bad sliding fall -- and instead of being head first on my back, I was head first on my stomach!

This happened a while ago, and I really can't recall what finally broke the slide; only that it seemed to go on forever. And while I wasn't scared or panicked, I do remember wondering how long it was going to last and how on earth I was going to stop. Happily enough, no injuries.

 

[abc]

She initially tried to roll over and use her feet but ended up losing both skis and cartwheeling several times until she landed again on her back (injured ) .

That, actually, is the reason I'm reluctant to jam the pole into the slope while sliding head first. If the pole holds, the momentum of the sliding body is so much it has to go somewhere. Most likely it will send the body cartwheeling over the poles.

You're likely to lose the pole. But if not, it'll be even worse. You can jolt your shoulder right out of their sockets!

When you're sliding THAT fast, any action that stop you abruptly WILL simply send you cartwheeling over whatever you jam into the slope, be it ski or pole.

The key, when sliding fast, is to slow down first, before attempting to stop. You need to somehow scrape away much of that sliding momentum till you're moving slow enough to a gentle stop.

Personally, I think I can control the ski, head first or not, than I can control the pole. After all, our legs are much stronger than our hands. And the ski has a longer contact area to the slope than the pole tips, making it easier to modulate the friction to slow down. You just HAVE TO control your impulse to JAM the ski into the slope, which will probably pop your binding or send you cartwheeling over the stuck ski, or both.

 

[abc]

Speaking of how often, I've only had it happened once sliding head first.

I just started to get the hand of handling the steep, which is to move the body aggressively down the hill while the ski turn under it. I was going down aggressively on a steep slope. I didn't release the edge at the end of the turn. So I went down the hill head first.

I waited a few seconds thinking my sliding body would slow me down. It didn't. I started dragging my skis (actually boots). Though it kept my sliding speed in check, it didn't slow me down enough. It went on for a few more seconds. That's when I sort of smarted up and figure I need to do something to help myself.

I spun around so my skis were down hill of me and put them down. Promptly lose the one on the bottom when the binding poped. Jolted me a bit but didn't cartwheel. That's when I realize I had to do EVERYTHING gently. Fortunately, I was now sliding legs first instead of head first. So I put the remaining ski down, let it side slip with just enough pressure to scrape away some speed. It took a few more seconds but I could tell I was slowing down. So I just kept at it, controling my urge to rush the process. Eventually I stopped. Got up on one ski. Another skier brough my lost ski down to me and I put it back on. A little shook up but also a littel smarter.

I've never slide head first since then. But I had my share of sliding legs first when I lose my edge. The trick is to use the ski to SLOW DOWN, not to stop too quickly.

 

[Gloria]

A stunt double perhaps

ABC, Lie down on the floor on your back with your hands on top of the basket of you poles with your arms at your sides. I don't think I could do an uphill cartwheel over the tips of my poles from this position either. I don't know what your skiing in that will immediately stop a pole tip on contact, I will wait with baited breath to see if someone figures out how to do this and posts it here.

 

[abc]

I don't think I could do an uphill cartwheel over the tips of my poles from this position either. .

???

Not cartwheeling UPHILL, you would only cartwheel DOWNHILL.