Controlling a slide

[SnowGlider]

When you fall on a steep hill and are heading downhill headfirst on your back, what is the best way to

1) stop?

2) steer so you don't fly off the side of the hill?

3) keep from breaking your legs?

I slid a couple of hundred feet yesterday. Skis did not release!

I noticed that trying to brake with the right leg caused me to veer off to the right (off the trail), but I couldn't think fast enough to correct that and I landed in some low-hanging tree branches. I guess you have to steer with the leg that's on the mid-hill side.

On a previous similar fall I kept my feet up in the air to avoid breaking a leg.

It must be common that your skis don't release if you are skiing at low speed as I do. Then you fall and pick up speed as you slide. Very scary.

Sliding downhill backwards may be best for your legs, but it ain't no picnic for the head, neck, and back. I once had a head/neck compression injury that way.

Any tips?

P.S. I figured out that on a steep hill you have to put your DOWNHILL ski on first. I did the opposite and was stuck there for a long time, unable to get the second ski on. Smaht!

 

[Pequenita]

It must be common that your skis don't release if you are skiing at low speed as I do.

Keep in mind, speed alone does not dictate whether bindings release. Bindings release when there is a twisting motion; the DIN setting would determine how much torque is necessary to release. Torque usually increases as a function of speed, weight, etc. Theoretically, one can fall while skiing at a slow speed and still manage to have the ski release if the DIN is set low and there is enough torque.

Not sure if I have any tips on how to control a slide...

 

[Cambridge Kate]

stopping

A former sig other once had a near-fatal high-speed slide (requiring emergency surgery after he wrapped around a tree). His skis had released, so initial force of impact isn't a factor in the danger of a slide. This is something I think about every time I fall. So your question is an important one.

One way to halt the slide, if you still have your poles, is to hold onto them and dig them into the uphill snow. The tip end is best for this but I've never found it possible to slide my hand down to that end, so the handle end will help too.

If you use your skis (or boots, if the skis are gone) to help slow the slide, do so tentatively and gently. A sudden planting of the skis will cause a tremendous jolt.

I always try to get my feet downhill as quickly as possible after a fall. I'd rather hit and break my legs than impact my spine and head. Then I ease them down to the snow (or, more likely, ice if I'm sliding that much), reach up with my hands to dig in with them too, and begin to check my speed.

I'd be interested in hearing more/other options too.

Unfortunately most of the ski jackets out there have a slippery surface which makes it that much more of a problem when you fall. I wonder if there is a particular brand that is more grippy.

Right you are about the downhill ski on first!

CK

 

[SnowGlider]

UGH! You've scared me! I've learned my lesson!

Kate, you made me realize I never should have been on that hill in the first place. It was -22 the previous day at Gunstock. There were no skiers that day, so no grooming that night. So of course the snow was frozen hardpack by the time I got on it.

As I always do, I checked carefully with skiers who had been out and was warned about the icy conditions. I stuck to the one intermediate hill that was not cement. My error was being persuaded by my two male companions to go with them on the black hill.

The funny thing is that I ski better than both of those guys. I figured if they could do it, I could. But I didn't listen to my better judgment saying, why take the risk?

Also, this was the infamous last run of the day. I was already tired, trying to get used to new boots, and my legs failed quickly when I overtightened my boots out of fear. Merde! What was I thinking!

Your statement that "a sudden planting of the skis will cause a tremendous jolt" is EXACTLY WHAT I FEAR. This could just as well happen when the skis catch without deliberate planting. Ugh! That's not a pretty thought!

I hereby vow to never again ski a hill that my instinct is warning me against, to be influenced by others against my judgment, or to take risks at the end of the day. Doh! [slaps forehead]

Reminder to self: glue spikes to rear end before next run.

 

[altagirl]

Self arresting with your poles is your best bet. Grab the tip end and stab it into the snow - and then hang on! Clawing into the snow with your hands may or may not have any effect. I'd refrain from digging my skis or heels in because of my knee problems unless nothing else is working and I'm headed for a tree or a cliff. Sometimes that can work okay, but I'd consider it only at the point where the chance of blowing a knee seems like the better option when faced with worse consequences.

 

[liquidfeet]

I have experienced this twice, this long slide on an icy slope, skis on, head first, on my back, looking up at the sky, hoping, hoping, HOPING my head will run into nothing before the endless slide comes to a halt.

I posted on a "self-arrest" thread on Epic asking for advice. Nothing. It was as if I had not posted. Those guys were only interested in the problems THEY encountered, and that was evidently not falling on a steep, icy groomer. Measly little me and my on-poiste sliding was not interesting to them, and I still bear a grudge about that. The only advice I got was to use the tip end of a pole to grind into the ice to stop the slide, which is not possible if both loops are around your wrists. Hoever, if that's the case AND you have the leisure time to remove one loop and then grind that tip into the icek/hardpack, I guess you could do it.

Perhaps putting one loop on and leaving the other off whenever doing an iffy slidey run might help in having one pole free to use for self-arest. That makes sense, and if you still have the pole in hand that is not looped around your wrist, then use both hands to hold it, one down at the tip and the other slightly above it, to grind the thing into the snow and stop your movement. Otherwise, carry an ice axe. (ha ha - that was the repeated advice on Epic -- I'm still mad, can you tell?).

Oh, it's clear that it would be better if you had your feet downslope, so then you could use them to stop your slide. Well, how? If your head is moving down first, how do you reverse the situation and get your feet first? If the skis are ON, then there's the problem of breaking a leg if you do acrobatics on your back while sliding at 15 mph just to get those feet down below your head. Does anyone know the answer here? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[ski diva]

I haven't had that happen to me, but someone I asked suggested extending one of your arms to the side as drag; that should spin you around to a better position, where you can arrest your fall. Definitely worth a try!

 

[altagirl]

The only advice I got was to use the tip end of a pole to grind into the ice to stop the slide, which is not possible if both loops are around your wrists. Hoever, if that's the case AND you have the leisure time to remove one loop and then grind that tip into the icek/hardpack, I guess you could do it.

You just grab the tip of your pole with the opposite hand. Then you'd have your wrist still through the strap where you can grab around/near the handle, and your other hand around the base and above the basket where you can drive it into the snow. Don't go trying to mess around with straps while you're falling.

Once you get in this position and start to create some resistance with the pole it will also spin you around so you're feet first.

 

[Pequenita]

I really don't think there is a way to truly control yourself/self arrest on ice. My assumptions when initially reading SnowGlider's post were (1) skis did not release and (2) she was on ice. The only mildly effective thing to do is to get your edges perpendicular to the fall line and create as much friction as possible to decrease momentum by, as Ski Diva wrote, dragging your arms and body (ie, twisting onto your stomach or back).

 

[SnowGlider]

Danger of pole straps

I never use my pole straps. I was trained that way by my first instructor. I found these confirmations of the dangers of wearing straps:

"Slipping your hand through the ski pole straps increases the likelihood of thumb and upper extremity injuries. The ski pole strap locks the wrist and hand to the pole. The pole acts as a lever against the thumb which can result in injury. The purpose of the strap is to hang the poles up on a hook."

"When a ski pole becomes captured in use, as by the basket becoming snagged on an object, conventional retention straps will bind the skier's hand to the captured ski pole and may create a serious injury."

"Ski poles can influence thumb and hand injuries. When a skier falls on an outstretched hand that is holding a ski pole, the pole can cause a tear of the ulnar collateral ligament of the thumb. This is one of the most common injuries in skiing. The best way to pre¬vent this injury is to drop your pole when you fall. It is important to not wear your ski pole straps. This allows the pole to fall away when you drop it."

 

[altagirl]

Actually you can eliminate the thumb injury risk by putting your whole hand through the strap and then holding the pole on top of the strap and grip. That way, when you let go, there's no strap wrapped around your thumb at all to affect it, the pole strap just hangs around your wrist. And you don't lose your poles, which, as far as I'm concerned, are important for being able to self arrest safely.

I haven't had a sliding fall like this in a few years but it does work.

 

[SnowGlider]

Quotes above point out that risk of injury is not only to the thumb. Poles can get caught up in low-hanging tree branches or brush with injury to wrist, arm, elbow, shoulder. Ouch!

 

[Cambridge Kate]

getting feet downhill

I dunno, this hasn't been difficult for me, I just swing my feet up and over my body to the downhill side. This is even with skis still attached (or, more usually, one ski).

As for poles and straps, I'd all the time be hiking back up the hill for my pole if I didn't use the straps. I do take them off in the trees, after having caught the basket in branches one time. It pulled my arm back, then my mitten came off and I was freed.

In all the years and all the falls, the straps have never caused any injury to my hands. Maybe I'm just lucky, but usually the poles simply dangle from my wrists or fall off completely.

It's funny, it never occurred to me to grab the pole tip with the OTHER hand and dig it in. That makes a lot more sense than trying to work the hand down to the bottom of the pole it's holding.

Interesting thread! And important for those of us who usually ski the icy East.

CK

 

[altagirl]

Quotes above point out that risk of injury is not only to the thumb. Poles can get caught up in low-hanging tree branches or brush with injury to wrist, arm, elbow, shoulder. Ouch!

I realize that's a risk, but personally (maybe it's because I keep the straps as loose as they go), when I've gotten a pole basket snagged on a tree or bush, it just pulls the pole off my wrist and no harm is done.

 

[ski now work later]

There was an article in this month's SKI magazine about this -- that pro skier named Hilary who's been in a bunch of movies and is a great athlete explained just how to do it and there was also something about poles that have handles that double as ice axes.

 

[SnowGlider]

So what did Hillary have to say about stopping a slide?

 

[ski now work later]

She talked about using your poles with the ax type top to stop and where to swing your legs but I confess that I don't recall all the details....

 

[liquidfeet]

Yesterday was all hero snow, lovelly lovely lovelliey. Then it rained as they groomed late yesterday afternoon/evening, then of course overnight it froze.

This morning there was a mountain-ful of bulletproof corduroy rock. The whole thing was a no-fall zone. I thought of the ways we've discussed stopping an out-of-control slide, but somehow I managed not to fall thankgoodness.

It was a morning of linked skids, noisy & harrowing until I got used to it, and just plain annoying.

 

[dloveski]

I try to ski in control, check my speed on the steeps, and limit the falls, but stuff happens. Powder days pose one kind of challenge to falls (another thread here) but on hard pack/ice days, if I fall on a steep run, a slide is inevitable. I try to stay loose and go with it, trying to gain traction with my poles or ski/s. I have had slides 1/2 way down the steep runs----head first, to feet first, to head. By staying loose, not fighting it every inch of the way, I have been able to ride it out (my ego notwithstanding). And I wear a helmet.

 

[ski now work later]

I found the article -- it's called "Arrest Yourself" by Hilaree O'Neill in the March/April issue of Skiing. It describes how to avoid "torpeoding head first down an icy face" by "self-arrest" using ski poles with grips that double as ice axes (by Black Diamond and Life-Link). It's a great article in a sea of tacky male adolescent articles.