Buying new mtn bike

[bounceswoosh]

I'm scared to replace my 2x10 because I don't want to lose the granny gear that I rely on way too much. But I'd like to lighten the bike and not drop the chain so much. I'm thinking a 30 tooth chainring and an 11-42 cassette? I'm working hard on my fitness, so maybe by the time I make the switch I won't need quite such an easy gear.

SRAM introduced the 1x12 Eagle this year. It's crazy expensive, but now they have the GX version, which is more reasonable. My Eagle has the same effective granny gear as my old bike did, and my granny was probably even lower than yours - I had a triple.

 

[SallyCat]

SRAM introduced the 1x12 Eagle this year. It's crazy expensive, but now they have the GX version, which is more reasonable. My Eagle has the same effective granny gear as my old bike did, and my granny was probably even lower than yours - I had a triple.

Now THAT is good to know. Thanks!

 

[luliski]

My new mountain bike has a 32T in front, and 11-42 in back. I love the simplicity of the 1x, but I do sometimes wish i had one lower gear. I'm thinking about switching to smaller ring in front. The good thing is, I'm more motivated to ride my road bike too, to build some climbing strength.

 

[WaterGirl]

Need to replace my old Cannonade which was considered a "mountain bike" at the time I purchased it. Took it in, too much beach corrosion to make it safe/ worth restoring.

Looking at trails and fire roads - both home and mammoth. Its More about the "UP" for me and rolling terrain, working on cardio. Rode the bike park Saturday, its not me, I'm not serious down hiller (I prefer my yamaha for that). This bike would be 80% at home on harder clay based trails w/ deep sugar and some loose gravel fire roads. Still would like some capability if possible to handle mammoths looser pumice trails, understand that may only occur with a tire change.

Trek store has a bike on sale called the Cali S -- seems to be a 2017 model, specs below are from online, store said didn't have.... For the same price can get a Liv Tempt 2.

OR should I go fatter tire and go with the Trek Roscoe w which comes in the 6 7 8 and 2018 and 2019 models are available ????? ( https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/trail-mountain-bikes/roscoe/c/B342/ )

Also suggested was the Trek X-Caliber 7 which is the newer version of the Cali S at about $939 ( https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...er/x-caliber-7-womens/p/21683/?colorCode=grey )

Rented a Liv Pique today, rode it on a local trail I know well, was fun. Was able to play around with suspension, and for what I want to do, a hardtail will be best. Not able to demo the any of the treks. (this feels like such a "which ski should I get b/c its on sale without demoing thread")

I appreciate any advice, I'm not up to date on technology ......

Here are quick specks on the Liv and Trek both around 700$

Trek Cali Specs (2017 ?)
https://www.trekbicyclesuperstore.com/product/trek-cali-s-disc-wsd-womens-232749-1.htm
Frame -Trek Alpha Gold aluminum w/Gary Fisher G2 Geometry
Fork SR Suntour XCM, hydraulic lockout, 100mm-travel (80mm for 13.5-inch size)
Rims/Wheels Bontrager AT-650
Hubs Formula
Tires Bontrager XR2, 29/27.5 x 2.2
Crankset Shimano
Chainrings 44/32/22
Front Derailleur Shimano Altus
Rear Derailleur Shimano Acera
Rear Cogs Shimano HG20, 9-speed: 11-34
Shifters Shimano Altus
Handlebars Bontrager aluminum
Tape/Grips Bontrager Satellite Plus
Stem Bontrager Elite
Brake Levers Tektro
Brakes Tektro M290 hydraulic disc
Pedals Wellgo nylon platform
Saddle Bontrager Evoke 1.5 WSD
Seatpost Bontrager SSR


Liv Tempt 2 2018 https://www.liv-cycling.com/us/tempt-2
Frame ALUXX-grade aluminum
Fork SR Suntour XCM HLO, hydraulic lockout, preload adjust, 100mm travel
Shock N/A
Handlebar Giant Connect Trail, 31.8mm
Stem Giant Sport
Seatpost Giant Sport, 30.9mm
Saddle Contact Comfort Forward
Pedals MTB, Caged
Shifters Shimano Alivo
Front Derailleur Shimano Alivio
Rear Derailleur Shimano Deore, Shadow
Brakes ▶ Tektro HDC M285, Hydraulic Disc, [F] 180mm, [R] 160mm
Brake Levers ▶ Tektro HDC-M285
Cassette Shimano HG400-9 12x36, 9-Speed
Chain KMC X9
Crankset Prowheel RAID-501TT, 22/36
Bottom Bracket Sealed Cartridge, Threaded
Rims Giant XC-2 Disc, Tubeless
Hubs Giant Sport Tracker Disc, 32h
Spokes Sapim Leader, 14g
Tires Maxxis Ardent, 27.5x2.25, Tubeless, 60 TPI, Wire Bead
Extras Factory Tubeless

Thanks Bike Divas for any advice!

 

[SallyCat]

If climbing is your thing, I would go with a 29er, provided that it fits you (in the smaller size ranges, many bikes go down to 27.5). Also, a bike with cross-country geometry (that X-Caliber) will climb a little better than one with trail-oriented geometry but you'll sacrifice a bit of versatility on descents.

I have a hardtail 29er (Kona Honzo--trail geometry) and a full-suss 27.5+ bike. I love them both, but when I have to do a lot of climbing, I always want to be on the Honzo; it climbs like a goat, and the 29-inch tires are fast, nimble, and roll over obstacles really well.

27.5+ tires are forgiving and give you a lot of traction and so are a blast for trail riding, but they'll be a bit heavier than 29ers and have more rolling resistance.

Keep in mind that it's not always possible to swap tires, especially on hardtails. There are some hardtails that will allow both 27.5+ and 29in tires, but they are a bit pricey. The Santa Cruz Chameleon and the Pivot Les come to mind. Your bike shop can also tell you whether a bike can take both sizes.

A bit pricier, but the Scott Spark is a sweet xc bike that is full suspension but lets you completely lock out the rear suspension for climbing and then open it up for descents via a lever on the handlebars. If I were doing 80% cardio-focused mtb climbing, that would be my dream bike.

 

[elemmac]

@WaterGirl - Few things to think about based on the bikes you've posted in detail.

The Liv Tempt 2 and the Trek Cali are very comparable, pretty much all of the components are the same, with the exception of you're getting a slightly better drivetrain with the Liv. Geometries, and which bike fits you better should also come into play. Even if you can't demo them, just sitting on them in the store, and most bike shops will allow you, at minimum, to take it for a spin in the parking lot.

You mentioned the possibility of purchasing a bike with a fatter tire with the Roscoe. For the terrain you mention riding most, I don't think going to a wider tire is necessary, nor preferable. I ride plus size tires on my bike, and they give the largest benefits climbing over roots, rocks and other obstacles. The grip is better when cornering, but they become a bit sluggish on gravel roads and smooth sections of trails.

Another bike you mentioned was the Trek X-Caliber. After a quick glance in the specifications. I personally would rank this one as pretty equivalent to the first two you mentioned. You'd be getting a slightly better front fork, getting a slightly better drivetrain than the Cali, but the drivetrain ranks slightly lower than the Liv.

And an extra two cents...All of these bikes come equipped with a spring coil shock, instead of an air coil. An air coil will give the rider the ability to dial in the shock to their weight and riding style significantly easier, not to mention they are significantly lighter. Especially for lighter riders, a coil shock will rarely come in the stiffness you require, and in order to change it you need to purchase another coil, and have it physically swapped out.

If you've never had experience with any other shocks, you may never know what you're missing. But as someone that started riding with a spring coil (that had never been dialed in to my weight), and 2 years later rode a friend's bike with an air coil, I can attest to the difference it makes, the fun factor goes up tenfold. The difference is largest on the downhill. Which if you ride for the up, you might as well make the best of the downs.

If you're trying to stay within a certain budget, there's always a chance at looking at the used market to be able to step up the specifications of the bike without breaking the bank. If money is not the main thing holding you back, I would consider the X-Caliber 8 over the 7, and the Liv Tempt 1 over the 2.

 

[SallyCat]

To add to @elemmac 's great advice, I would consider tubeless-ready tires as well. This will save you weight in an area that will make a real difference, and it reduces the likelihood of certain kinds of flats.

If you're looking used, Pinkbike.com has some nice xc options in your area that, as mentioned above, will give you higher-end specs.

 

[elemmac]

A bit pricier, but the Scott Spark is a sweet xc bike that is full suspension but lets you completely lock out the rear suspension for climbing and then open it up for descents via a lever on the handlebars. If I were doing 80% cardio-focused mtb climbing, that would be my dream bike.

Completely agree with this as well! I had a Spark for a few years, traded her in last year for the Scott Genius, which is more trail/enduro oriented (as I'm the opposite of the OP, where I tolerate the climbs, and ride for the downhills). A lot more versatile than a hardtail, especially on descents, but climbs like a beast. The lockout is also a CTD (climb/trail/descend), which gives you three options, fully lockout out, shorter suspension, or full suspension. Having the lockout trigger on your handlebars is pretty amazing too.

 

[WaterGirl]

@elemmac and @SallyCat thank you for all the great information!!!!! I really appreciate your quick response, as I'm hoping to buy sooner than later. Having your assistance in comparing the bikes is very helpful

So I will ride the Liv Pique again this morning before taking back and then possibly stop at another store that has the Scott. It does have the air coil that was adjusted to me before I left the shop, so @elemmac now I will be spoiled from that bike. It also has some other sweet features like the dropper seat etc, that I won't be getting, but glad I was able to demo and understand what is available. I did play around with suspension last night and for the most part I locked out the rear which is why I think at this point I only need a hardtail. I also appreciate understanding that for what I want, the UP I wouldn't need the Roscoe. I think if I was using in mammoth only, it may be better, but for home, its all clay and I'm accessing it via pavement so based on your advice the thinner tire will be better.

To help clarify - I'm 5'4" so the small frame and the 27.5 tires are what I will be looking at. The womens specific frames had some features that were helpful to my sizing. The two stores I have been to are within walking distance of my new office.

I had been dealing w/ the Trek store originally - their sizing amounted to a laser assisted assessment that put me at 5' 5" in shoes and an inseam of 30. Said I'm a small frame. Big deal. I sat on the Cali, they would have to order the X-Caliber. I wish they did a better sizing, I will need to seek out another sales person that I connected with earlier, rather than the road bike sales person I had yesterday. (Also, they were trying to pass off the Cali S as a 2018 model - I said hmmmm I didn't see it on the website, and they were having trouble getting the full specs - that ticked me off - oh just a little - so I'm not impressed with that - but on the other hand it was an appropriate option for what I wanted at a good price).

I stopped at the Giant store, the sales person way more helpful in 5 mins I knew everything I needed to, he understood what I wanted where I was coming from, I rented the Pique to get an idea of the frame.

Decisions. I'm not sure if I can get the Tempt in a "1" in the US -- seems only international, and the Caliber X only comes in a 7 for the women, I would need to look at the difference between the mens and womens. I am not opposed to spending money for the right bike / and or better options, I was looking at +/- $1K for a hard tail. I will see if I can find the Scott at the other store....... and I guess sit on the Trek again. I know both stores will adjust specific items - I have discussed that I want to change the handlebars with both stores already. I am a bit disappointed in the lack of proper sizing at the Trek store -- I already knew what I wanted at the Giant store so didn't get into a detailed analysis other than adjusting air shock and seat but did discuss some things that I wanted to change. I understand I'm looking at entry level bikes, but really would have liked a better analysis.

 

[WaterGirl]

@elemmac and @SallyCat
Quick Update. Went to Different Trek store, tried the X-Caliber 8 (and a few other bikes), turns out I'm between frame sizes in the Trek due to my longer legs if I go with the 17 inch frame I get 29inch wheels. I had fun ridding the bigger size.

The Liv Tempt 1 is not made in the US, the 2018 Tempt 2 is sold out except for one size small at a dealer north of me. I may go look tonight, it may work for DD who also needs a bike.

Apparently the 2019 Tempt 2 has lower price point and lower quality parts, so skipping that. Will need to get on it to compare to the Trek. Suggestion is to try to find a Women's Rockhopper Pro, which is also sold out in my area.

Unfortunately the only dealer near me who sells Scott only had 5 Scott Mt bikes that were 4K ++ and big attitude (which I knew about but was confirmed by the rude sales person).

Questions:
1. Is the 29 inch wheel that superior? The Liv only comes in 27.5
2. Between the 2018 and 2019 X Caliber 8 are any of these differences make one superior over the other?

2018 RockShox 30 Silver, air spring, preload, rebound, TurnKey lockout, E2 tapered steerer, G2 Geometry w/51mm offset on 29ers, 100mm travel (13.5: 80mm travel)
2019 RockShox 30 Silver, Solo Air, rebound adjust, TurnKey hydraulic lockout, tapered steerer, G2 Geometry w/51mm offset on 29ers, 100mm travel (13.5: 80mm travel)

2018 Bontrager Duster Elite Tubeless Ready 28-hole, tubeless strips and valves sold separately
2019 Bontrager Kovee 28-hole Tubeless Ready, tubeless rim strips and valves sold separately

Front derailleur/ Rear
2018 Shimano Deore M6020 / Shimano Deore XT, Shadow
2019 Shimano Deore M617 /Shimano Deore XT M781, Shadow

Bottom Bracket
2018 Sealed cartridge
2019 Shimano BB52, 73mm

Brake set
2018 Shimano M315 hydraulic disc
2019 Shimano MT200 hydraulic disc

weight - one pound difference??
2018 17.5" - 13.06 kg / 28.80 lbs (with tubes)
2019 17.5˝ - 13.45 kg / 29.66 lbs (with tubes)

Thank you Divas!

 

[SallyCat]

I'm going to throw a wrench in here and say that for the price you're looking at for that X-Caliber, you may want to take a look at either the Kona Kahuna or the Kona Honzo.

The Kahuna is more xc-oriented and the Honzo has trail geometry.

As for 29-inch tires, my vote is absolutely yes: if you enjoyed riding them and the standover height on the bike was comfortable, you're going to enjoy 29ers for the riding you plan to do.

 

[elemmac]

@WaterGirl - at first glance it doesn’t seem like there’s much of a difference between the two years. I’m not familiar enough with the exact numbers Shimano puts on their components, to know exactly what diffeences are.

As for 27.5 vs 29 wheels, my advice would be to try them out, stand over them, and work with the salesman to make sure it fits. Sometimes 29” wheels on a small frame can be a bit awkward for the geometry, which is why some manufacturers will make the small frame in a certain bike with 27.5 wheels, and the rest of the frame with 29s. For what you’re doing with the bike, either will do. Fit comes first in my eyes. If all things are equal comfort and fit-wise, I’d probably lean towards the 29.

Do you have a local bike shop that sells multiple brands? It sounds like you’re stuck between the Giant and the Trek shop? A non-manufacturer specific shop will probably give you a better selection, since they’ll give you a couple different options at a similar price point.

 

[WaterGirl]

@elemmac I do have a bike shop that sells more brands and another shop that is mt bike specific. I will try to hit several stores w/ DD this am.
Despite being in costal mountains, I'm in the land of snobby road bikers. Most shops cater to road bikes and beach cruisers. The mt bike store carries very high end bikes, will see what they have in the $1500 range, I have been in there before looking at options.
However, not uncommon to be scoffed at for wanting to buy a bike under 5K - just saying lots of attitude here. Has been interesting, the younger bike dudes have given me so much information and help at both stores. The sales persons my age? just trying to dump their older stock and dismiss my questions.... hmmm.

 

[VickiK]

Did you try JRA Bikes & Brew? I think they moved since I was there, but they seemed really nice. I just needed to buy a tube--nothing major like buying a new bike, though.

(215 E. Thousand Oaks Blvd. Thousand Oaks, CA. 91360, or Give Us a Call at (818) 991-1572)

 

[altagirl]

Personally, I hate dealing with front derailleurs, and you couldn't get me to go back after trying a 1x drivetrain. Replacing the whole thing to make that change later is not usually a cost effective plan. You tend to get a better deal when it's part of the new bike package, unless something has changed there.

 

[SallyCat]

@elemmac I do have a bike shop that sells more brands and another shop that is mt bike specific. I will try to hit several stores w/ DD this am.
Despite being in costal mountains, I'm in the land of snobby road bikers. Most shops cater to road bikes and beach cruisers. The mt bike store carries very high end bikes, will see what they have in the $1500 range, I have been in there before looking at options.
However, not uncommon to be scoffed at for wanting to buy a bike under 5K - just saying lots of attitude here. Has been interesting, the younger bike dudes have given me so much information and help at both stores. The sales persons my age? just trying to dump their older stock and dismiss my questions.... hmmm.

That is BS and I'm sorry to hear you were treated that way. I just got back from a 10-mile mountain bike ride; I have two bikes: one fancy-schmancy full -suspension carbon plus-tire bike that iI love, and one hardtail that cost $1500. I took the hardtail today--no question about it. It's fun, the geometry is really well designed, and it has solid components. It also climbs a heckuva lot better than my trail-verging-on-enduro bike, which meant that I could access more trails with less fatigue and so stay out longer and have more fun. Not everybody wants to pay a premium for rear suspension, dropper posts, and SRAM Eagle-or-whatever components. And if those bros are SO into bikes, they should know that there are a ton of great, really well-designed and exciting hard-tails on the market right now.

I hope you find a shop with non-jerky people that can put you on something that you'll really love.

 

[VickiK]

You could try https://bikeshopwarehouse.com. It's probably like the Bikes Direct website. Bad user interface, and odd branding (for example, Motobecane is not the old original Motobecane of yore) but the frames and component sets are good value. Minimal build required.