Buying demo skis...

[marzNC]

I think the calculator is way off for shorter women and maybe based on more camber in skis?

Just as likely that the creator of the modeling software isn't . . . petite . . . or a woman, and doesn't have petite ski nuts checking the results. I would guess that any checking of results was done for people who aren't on the tails of the normal curve for height and weight.

Any mathematical model has to simplify the situation to a few key characteristics. No mathematical model can take into account all the factors involved.

Honest question - anyone else find it a bit weird that they have calculators like that for anyone above a beginner? I mean, if you have to use ask what height ski you should use, doesn't that mean you are just starting out and thus a beginner?

You'd be surprised how many intermediate and advanced skiers who don't live in ski country rent skis for destination ski trips. Meaning they don't want to buy skis, or boots, for assorted reasons. Usually because they don't ski that many days per season, and may not ski every season. When I was a working adult, I took a ski trip out west every 2-3 years. In my case I opted to own boots, but had no idea what a difference understanding the role of a "boot fitter" could make. Wasn't worth buying skis. Although that was years before searching the Internet or even shopping online was an option.

 

[TiffAlt]

Maybe it's for people like my mom that only buy new skis every 20+ years. Her previous skis were like 190s, and then got "new" ones 15+ years ago that are 160s.

I think that calculator runs short in general. I thought my old full camber 151s were kinda short, but the calculator gave me 150!

You'd be surprised how many intermediate and advanced skiers who don't live in ski country rent skis for destination ski trips. Meaning they don't want to buy skis, or boots, for assorted reasons. Usually because they don't ski that many days per season, and may not ski every season. When I was a working adult, I took a ski trip out west every 2-3 years. In my case I opted to own boots, but had no idea what a difference understanding the role of a "boot fitter" could make. Wasn't worth buying skis. Although that was years before searching the Internet or even shopping online was an option.

Thanks for the perspective guys! I really am coming at from the perspective of someone who kinda jumped in headfirst just this a few months ago, so I'm as naive as they come! So happy I came across this forum as a petite female skier - the advice has been invaluable!

 

[alude]

@alude
I think I confused you when I said the Yumis pivoted easier. I then said "and execute a nice short turn", but I meant it as two separate things. There are times I have to pivot to maneuver through the crowds or around bumps, but I don't initiate my turns using pivots. I mentioned pivoting because it's very important in my opinion when you need to quickly react, change direction, etc and I found that a lot easier on the Yumis.

I described the mechanics of how I turn in detail above, but after giving it some more thought, I think the key difference between the two skis was in the middle of the turn. Let me try to describe it better. When I try to do that turn on my BPs, after initiating, I have to really fight and keep the tension high to keep the skis from drifting farther apart. Concentrating on keeping them together makes it difficult for me to get on edge as it takes awhile to successfully pull them under me and thus onto the edge. I can definitely do it, but it's very fatiguing right now, maybe because that type of tension is so new to me. The times I am unable to pull it in enough and they get too wide, I end up skidding the turn since I am not truly on edge.

In contrast, on the Yumi it was much easier to pull and keep the skis under me so that I successfully got on edge faster and consequently, I was on edge much more often. Executing this technique well and consistently really improved my form and it was noticeable to both my husband and son. This and the ease of pivoting gave me a lot more confidence since I felt I could both slow myself down in turns using speed control and also react faster in crowds and on bumps using the pivots.

I still want to carve and in the future as I advance, I don't doubt that one day I will probably want to demo a more dedicated carver (well granted if I can find one). But for now, I think I am quite content to progress on my Yumis. I really do adore them - I actually had a dream about them and the wonderful weekend I had on them! If you dream about a ski, it's gotta be the one right? Right????

Well, if you found a ski you like buy it! ;-)

But what you describe above let me think that you have trouble controlling your skis (regardless of what Powder7 recommends, this often means skis that are too long). When skis are splitting apart, you should adjust the pressure or edge angle to make them move together. You don't have to "fight" to keep them together. If you "fight", that basically means that you are dragging them on snow, which is equivalent to pivoting/skidding. Similarly, it is impossible to do real short turn, ski trees, control your speed and ski bumps without pivoting. If you have challenges there, it sounds to me like you have challenges pivoting/drifting. It still makes sense to me that a shorter running length is easier for you because it is easier to pivot. The Yumi 154 has a 10 cm shorter running length than the BP 147. I would think that a shorter BP would be better for you (which doesn't exist, and I find it weird that the BP doesn't come in a shorter length). If you are looking for other skis, I think that you should look for skis with a running length similar to the Yumi 154 (around 107 cm).

The Yumi also has a longer sidecut radius. This would also help with preventing the skis from splitting apart because the ski has less of a tendency to turn by itself.

Everyone seems to think that the Powder7 chart is off. I think the way of using it is to do a first pass and then see what you get. Then you adjust your length preference parameter to fit your current lineup (you can get up to +6 cm with that). The advantage of this chart is that it helps you choose skis for different terrains/conditions, which might not be obvious. You might be an east coast advanced carver, but you might not have skied much powder and need a ski for your next trip out west. Then the tool is useful. For reference, Powder7 is a shop that advises thousands of skiers per year. I would hope their model works decently for most skiers... but maybe not!

As a reference point, Volkl recommends the Yumi in 149 for you:

YUMI 84 2023 Völkl

The Yumi features tip and tail rockers and measures 84 mm beneath the boot, and its 3D radius sidecut makes it easy and playful to turn. This latest model is the first to combine a glass frameundefined

volkl.com

It might be too short, but you might also enjoy it more than the 154! You won't know without trying, but if the 154 is fun, you can just go for that!

 

[marzNC]

Thanks for the perspective guys! I really am coming at from the perspective of someone who kinda jumped in headfirst just this a few months ago, so I'm as naive as they come! So happy I came across this forum as a petite female skier - the advice has been invaluable!

Your questions are great! Took me several years of demo'ing and owning a few pairs of skis before the differences in design and materials started to make some sense. As a petite older skier, professional reviews when I started skiing more regularly never helped much since the reviewers were rarely my size and were usually advanced skiers. My approach for demo'ing remains pretty simple even though I've become an advanced skier with the help of lessons in recent years. Either a pair of skis are "fun" or they are "too much work." I have some appreciation as to why, but tend not to stress over the details.

Just for fun, here's a pair of handmade skis that I demo'd near Boston in 2017. The creator is quite a character who was a railroad engineer in Eastern Europe before immigrating to the USA. Completely self-taught. These skis were really easy to turn on groomers and in a few inches of fresh snow. They were about the same length as the straight skis I bought in the 1980s. But really skied somewhat longer since there is almost no tail. They were good fun!

Too long? Look at the binding placement. Looked even longer when skiing and riding a chairlift.


The creator is a big man

 

[TiffAlt]

The Yumi 154 has a 10 cm shorter running length than the BP 147. I would think that a shorter BP would be better for you (which doesn't exist, and I find it weird that the BP doesn't come in a shorter length). If you are looking for other skis, I think that you should look for skis with a running length similar to the Yumi 154 (around 107 cm).

The Yumi also has a longer sidecut radius. This would also help with preventing the skis from splitting apart because the ski has less of a tendency to turn by itself.

Yes, I noted the shorter running length that soothski.com reported in a previous post on this thread (here). Interesting note about the sidecut radius too. They also bill the Yumi as having their 3D sidecut radius that makes it easier to make any turn at both fast and slow speeds, but I don't know what a 3D sidecut radius really is or entails. Maybe a beveled edge? I'd check, but they are getting waxed at the shop.

I readily accept that it may be my own shortcomings in technique as well. As I've said before, I know the Blizzard Pearls are a good ski, just too much ski for me, right now. That may or may not change as I progress, but I'm just ecstatic to have found a ski I can comfortably progress on.

I'm headed out to Mt Bachelor in April and I'm PSYCHED to ski it on my Yumis.

 

[TiffAlt]

Your questions are great! Took me several years of demo'ing and owning a few pairs of skis before the differences in design and materials started to make some sense. As a petite older skier, professional reviews when I started skiing more regularly never helped much since the reviewers were rarely my size and were usually advanced skiers. My approach for demo'ing remains pretty simple even though I've become an advanced skier with the help of lessons in recent years. Either a pair of skis are "fun" or they are "too much work." I have some appreciation as to why, but tend not to stress over the details.

Just for fun, here's a pair of handmade skis that I demo'd near Boston in 2017. The creator is quite a character who was a railroad engineer in Eastern Europe before immigrating to the USA. Completely self-taught. These skis were really easy to turn on groomers and in a few inches of fresh snow. They were about the same length as the straight skis I bought in the 1980s. But really skied somewhat longer since there is almost no tail. They were good fun!

Too long? Look at the binding placement. Looked even longer when skiing and riding a chairlift.
View attachment 20917

The creator is a big man
View attachment 20916

Those are WILD! And wow, I see you on them - with that far back of a mount, how the hell did they ski??? Sounds like a super fun day though and I agree - that's what really counts to me. I take your view of it - I find the how and whys interesting, but in the end, as long as I'm working towards my goals and having fun while doing it, all is right in the world!

 

[TiffAlt]

And like a good engineer in the age of smart devices, I googled Volkl 3D Radius Sidecut after several pages of wondering about it now.

BEHOLD!

 

[marzNC]

Those are WILD! And wow, I see you on them - with that far back of a mount, how the hell did they ski??? Sounds like a super fun day though

I only took a few runs. That mountain is near Boston and a blue or black trail takes about 3 min to finish. On the day there was fresh snow, only did about 10 turns on two runs. There was a bit of untracked left on the side of a blue trail when I discovered the guy was around with his skis again. He was surprised there was any untracked left since he'd been on the lift that serves black trails.

Bottom line was that it was very easy to make turns. After the first run, the creator changed the placement of the demo binding. Can't remember if he put it more forward or backward. Made it that much easier to turn the skis on the next run.

 

[Sokolva]

Yes I like the Yumi totally better on bumps! On groomers I feel my BPs really locked me into a turn whereas these Yumis are far easier to maneuver even while in the turn.

It’s made me a hell of a lot more confident on the cat tracks. I used to be deathly afraid I’d fall right off the side or run into a tree. With my BPs I’d go very fast but very wide and it was hard for my to keep the turn more narrow. I felt out of control.

The Yumis are much easier to pull back under me if that makes sense

I’m so happy that you found a ski that you love!!! Did you end up buying the ones you demoed, or new Yumis?

And I agree with you, that it’s worthwhile to chase after that ski that makes you feel free to fly. It’s what skis are built for, and they are such wonderful gravity tools. Even birds, who can fly freely, have been recorded finding little slick leaves to stand on and slide down slopes on; we are lucky that we have the hands and fingers to build incredibly detailed and nuanced skis for ourselves!

I’ve heard amazing things about the Yumis, I definitely want to get to demo some one day. So happy to see a happy beginning on this thread!

 

[TiffAlt]

I’m so happy that you found a ski that you love!!! Did you end up buying the ones you demoed, or new Yumis?

And I agree with you, that it’s worthwhile to chase after that ski that makes you feel free to fly. It’s what skis are built for, and they are such wonderful gravity tools. Even birds, who can fly freely, have been recorded finding little slick leaves to stand on and slide down slopes on; we are lucky that we have the hands and fingers to build incredibly detailed and nuanced skis for ourselves!

I’ve heard amazing things about the Yumis, I definitely want to get to demo some one day. So happy to see a happy beginning on this thread!

I bought the demos on the spot, lol! And yes there's a story behind that too...

In my true fashion of overthinking everything, while I thought Crystal Mountain had priced their demos really well (there was a 2022 demo pair of Yumis that Powder7 had priced higher than Crystal was asking for the 2023), I had actually found a place that had slashed the price for a new unmounted Yumi in the same 154cm height down to $325! It was so tempting, though I'd have to get bindings and then mount them which is more $$$. However, the collective wisdom of the internet was weighing on my mind.

While I'm only registered here (cause I'm definitely a diva!) I lurk at places at other ski forums like skitalk, TGR, etc. I've read countless threads of people demoing and loving a ski, only to purchase the skis outside, and hate them. Then they go through the laundry list of why they are unable to replicate the experience they loved with the brand new ski, whether that be tuning, binding delta, mount position, etc etc. I definitely did not want to be posting that here, and I liked everything about this exact pair of skis, binding delta, mount position, so I decided since I was lucky enough to be able to buy the exact ski I loved, I should stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and just buy them!

Plot twist, my husband - who previously couldn't understand why I was unhappy on my Blizzard Pearls cause they're an awesome ski and really thought I just needed to ski more - is now a demo convert and has reserved a demo for himself next Saturday. I may be gloating just a tad.

 

[Sokolva]

S

I bought the demos on the spot, lol! And yes there's a story behind that too...

In my true fashion of overthinking everything, while I thought Crystal Mountain had priced their demos really well (there was a 2022 demo pair of Yumis that Powder7 had priced higher than Crystal was asking for the 2023), I had actually found a place that had slashed the price for a new unmounted Yumi in the same 154cm height down to $325! It was so tempting, though I'd have to get bindings and then mount them which is more $$$. However, the collective wisdom of the internet was weighing on my mind.

While I'm only registered here (cause I'm definitely a diva!) I lurk at places at other ski forums like skitalk, TGR, etc. I've read countless threads of people demoing and loving a ski, only to purchase the skis outside, and hate them. Then they go through the laundry list of why they are unable to replicate the experience they loved with the brand new ski, whether that be tuning, binding delta, mount position, etc etc. I definitely did not want to be posting that here, and I liked everything about this exact pair of skis, binding delta, mount position, so I decided since I was lucky enough to be able to buy the exact ski I loved, I should stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and just buy them!

Plot twist, my husband - who previously couldn't understand why I was unhappy on my Blizzard Pearls cause they're an awesome ski and really thought I just needed to ski more - is now a demo convert and has reserved a demo for himself next Saturday. I may be gloating just a tad.

So happy to hear that! I had no idea people have noticed such a difference between demo skis and the skis they end up buying. Wonder if a lot of that is the difference in the binding height, the bindings themselves, or the natural variations between skis that can occur. Didn’t think they’d be that dramatic though! It sounds like you got an excellent deal and also the rental bindings are valuable for reselling the skis or passing them on to a friend if you ever don’t want them anymore, though with how much you love these, it sounds like you may just ski them until they are wall decorations!

 

[TiffAlt]

though with how much you love these, it sounds like you may just ski them until they are wall decorations!

Think you're on to something, LOL.