boot question

[Marigee]

I was skiing today at Whitetail in PA - my local resort. It snowed 6 inches while I was there - in addition to the 2 that were on the ground. The snow was very wet. Towards the end of the day my legs were getting tired. I noticed that my boots felt loose around my calf. I tightened the buckles much tighter than I ever have - so the boots felt quite stiff. It was like a light bulb when off - all of a sudden I had much better control over my skis.(they are the right size - and my feet are very tight in the foot area) I don't know why I haven't tightened them like this before.

So my question is - did they need to be tighter because of the snow conditions (6 inches of wet, ungroomed snow) - or is this something that I should always have been doing - but just now had an epiphany about? Would I benefit from a stiffer boot? I have Nordica Beast 10's, bought fall 2005 - they have about 35 days on them (I thought they were Beast 12's.) I think this model is aimed mostly at intermediate recreational skiers.

 

[skigirl]

Believe it or not the plastic in the ski boots tends to be softer when the temps are warmer and stiffer when it gets colder. To tighten the tops when it gets warmer is not unusual.

 

[Pequenita]

Or, your boots are starting to pack out in the calf area, so they may have fit correctly earlier on, but not now. I do generally tighten mine as the day progresses, except one day I was so frustrated with my skiing, I tightened too much and got bruises on my calf.

how was the skiing? I am trying to figure out how much skiing I can get in on Sunday after my road race but before Whitetail closes for the season....

 

[SnowGlider]

Stiffness vs tightness

I hope I get this right because I'm a beginner at these technical questions but I've been dealing with issues of boot stiffness and tightness for a couple of weeks now.

"Stiff" and "tight" are two different matters. Stiffness applies to both lateral stiffness and foward flex. The Nordic stiffness index seems to go from 40 to 130. Your Beast 10 has a nonadjustable flex of 80. The Beast 12 has an adjustable flex of 80/90. This is a freeride boot, which is supposed to have a softer flex, isn't it?

In any case, lateral stiffness and forward flex refer to the inherent qualities of the materials and construction, not how you adjust the boots, which is about tightness.

Now, Divas here have said that they can ski well with their boots unbuckled. In my mind, because I have PTSD and am basically afraid of most aspects of skiing, a very tight boot means control and safety. Not so, say all of my instructors and folks in this forum.

I experienced this this week. I had been tightening my boots so much that I've been in extreme pain. My adaptive instructor buckled my boots only moderately and then taped the buckles so I couldn't tighten them more. I was humilated and very worried about losing control. But in fact to my suprise I had MORE control and no pain for the first time ever. So that convinced me that there is a nominal relationship between boot tightness and ski control.

No reason to carry that to extremes---obviously you need a firm fit on steep terrain. But my instructor emphasized that a firm fit comes from the actual fit of the boot, not cinching it up tight.

One thing to be careful of: overtightening blocks circulation and can cause pressure on nerves. Result is excruciating pain.

My experience has been that wanting to overtighten boots is also a sign that the liner has packed out or the shell or liner don't have the right basic fit.

In the end your perception of control is what counts. You say you had greater control, so keep doing what feels right.

But I don't think that going to the Beast 12 is what you need, as you've described your experience. This sounds like an adjustment or fit issue rather than a flex issue.

According to my instructor, you're supposed to have a little space behind the calf when you flex forward. The main thing that provides a tight fit is the two middle buckles. The power strap is not supposed to be tightened so much that you lose forward flex. Bode Miller is said to barely use the power strap.

It looks like the Beast 10 is not part of Nordica's current lineup so I couldn't determine who the manufacturer says the boot is for. Other sites described it as inermediate to advanced. What is your ability level?

['scuse length of post]

 

[Marigee]

Or, your boots are starting to pack out in the calf area, so they may have fit correctly earlier on, but not now. I do generally tighten mine as the day progresses, except one day I was so frustrated with my skiing, I tightened too much and got bruises on my calf.

how was the skiing? I am trying to figure out how much skiing I can get in on Sunday after my road race but before Whitetail closes for the season....

I'm pretty sure my boots still fit correctly - I still have some notches on the buckles so I could adjust the top more if I needed. It just seemed like they needed to be tighter in the claf yesterday. I've never felt that they needed to be tighter in my calf before - so I thought maybe it was because the snow was so wet and heavy - and I was tired.

The skiing was good yesterday - very few people. Temps are going to stay around freezing, so what they got should last until closing on Sunday. The Ski Patrol said they expect 1/2 or less the usual crowds this weekend - so if you can make it after your road race - then go for it.

 

[Marigee]

What is your ability level?

I am a strong level 7 skier. I'm not particularly aggressive though - and don't have any desire to go hucking off cliffs or anything like that.

I like my boots - and have had lots of work done on them, so they mostly feel pretty good. Thanks for the info on tightness vs. stiffness. Maybe I should try some stiffer boots next time I need new boots.

 

[SnowGlider]

At level 7 it seems like your Beast 10s are ok. The advantage of the Beast 12 is that you would be able to choose between a flex of 8 and 10.

You could be right about the heavy snow. I guess in any condition where you need to push more aggressively against the tongue---steep terrain or whatever---you do need a firmer fit around the calf.

But be careful about overtightening when your legs are already tired, because leg and foot pain will exhaust you quickly at that point. I barely made it off the mountain last week because of that.

Another suggestion: See if you can get your liners heat fitted again.

I would say, tighten your boots moderately and then adjust them for the conditions as you feel it's necessary. You seem to have a good sense of how tight they need to be for the level of control you want.

 

[smpayne]

I find that I have to constantly adjust my buckles. I know my liners are slowly packing out (new boots), but I think our feet also change based on the weather, humidity, time of day, time of the month, etc. Somedays my boots are too tight and others they are too lose. It is usually a matter of fine tuning adjustments. It also makes sense that the properties of the plastic and the metal buckles would also change based on the tempature.

Recently I discovered that I like my boots on the stiffer setting and the powerstrap cranked down (which tends to require my buckles to be a little tighter) when the snow is wet and heavy or in powder. I like them soft and really flexable on the ice with a stiffer ski.

 

[SnowGlider]

I like them soft and really flexable on the ice with a stiffer ski.

That's really interesting! Can you explain why?

Intuitively I'm thinking that you want to be able to bend more aggressively and drive against the tongue for better edging on ice. But wouldn't you want the same flex on any terrain?

 

[smpayne]

That's really interesting! Can you explain why?

Intuitively I'm thinking that you want to be able to bend more aggressively and drive against the tongue for better edging on ice. But wouldn't you want the same flex on any terrain?

Actually this is a recent discovery. When I bought my new boots (boots that fit correctly), they had a flex adjustment on them. I decided to try it on the softer flex while I was adjusting to the boots, because I wasn't sure how much stiffer they were from my old boots and I wanted to try all the different possibilies. I still hear my dads words (from the '80s), that the stiffer the boot, the longer and stiffer the ski, the better. While the guy in the ski shop said that the stiffer boots aren't really as necessary with the new skis.

What I noticed immediately, was that I could finally feel my skis really dig into the turns. I think having the boot softer (and the proper fit) created more forgiveness that the ski didn't and allowed me to concentrate on getting my body positions and weight distributions in the proper place. These skis are very stiff unisex skis, with a large turn radius, 18mm. I now have the flex at maximum stiffness and just use (or don't use) the powerstrap to adjust the stiffness.

When I bought a new pair of fatter softer skis, the boots felt way too soft the way I had them before, everything was sluggish. So I started stiffening everything up, powerstrap really snug, flex adjustment in the stiffer setting, etc. Finally I felt comfortable and I could enjoy the softer flex of the skis, which was great when I hit some powder and moguls.

This was a very fun discovery for me to see how by adjusting my boots I can compensate for skis that may be too soft or too stiff and for varing snow conditions, etc.

 

[slipnslide]

I have narrow calves and in situations when I need control I crank the power strap tightly under my buckles. I try to adjust the buckles so that I don't have to crank them down too much. I aim for sung, not tight. The third buckle, or the one that lays over the arch of my foot is especially sensitive. If I crank it too much, it will cut off my circulation and my toes go numb in a matter of minutes. I also have the Nordica Beast 10. ( It must have been a popular boot, I see them everywhere). I am a pretty aggressive skier and have never thought they were too soft, but have noticed major differences in stiffness depending on temperature. I have had to wrestle them open on cold mornings then on warm days have had no problem sliding into them. When I bought them I went down a shell size to a 23 then had the big toe blown out among other things. They are snug, but I have a lot more control.