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Boot choices - smaller vs narrower vs different boot? Long backstory.

Basil

Certified Ski Diva
This is a long, rambling story, but hopefully it explains a little about how I've gotten where I am. Feel free to skip to the TL;DR section!

I grew up skiing in the 80s and 90s...it was a stretch on the budget for my parents, so hand-me-down gear was what we had. Typically, skis and boots had been through 4-5 cousins and family friends before they got to me. Rear entry boots, straight skis. "Boot fitting" was not a thing, even for the grown ups in our crew. Buying gear in a store was not even a thing :smile:

When I was about 13, I got my first pair of 4-buckle overlap boots, used, from the bargain basement rack of the local ski shop. A pair of Nordica Jr. Race boots. I LOVED these boots! I wore them until the plastic deteriorated and I massively overflexed them.

After that (late 90s), I got a pair of Lange boots that for some reason were torturous. I think they were too tight on my calves, too short, and my feet were always going numb. I still didn't really know there was another option, so I lived with it. For about 10 years. (I didn't ski that often during these years since I was super busy with grad school and the start of my career.)

In 2010 I got pregnant with my son, my foot grew a whole size, and I stopped skiing completely. It was a combination of body changes, caring for babies/toddlers, living far away from ski areas, and knowing that my boots wouldn't fit.

Fast forward to Christmas of 2019, we had moved back to MA, the kids were 8 and 5, and my DH rather innocently suggested we should take a few days and go skiing. I hemmed and hawed..my boots were long gone, I didn't own ski pants that fit, I wasn't sure about my fitness or if I could even ski anymore. I was worried about hurting myself or embarrassing myself. He insisted we needed to do something rather than let the kids run wild for the week. I ended up borrowing my mom's skis, boots, helmet and goggles, and we took a 3 day trip to Gunstock. We put our kids in their first ski lessons and took the chair up the bunny hill. Made 4 turns on the way down and realized I could still ski! Told my DH at that moment "We are a skiing family now. When is the next trip?" And then I promptly left him on the bunny hill to go find something more challenging :smile:

My mom's boots were a 25.5 HV model...bought to accommodate a bunion that she had and I didn't. But I was wowed by their "comfort", as compared to my old Langes from 20 years earlier. Embarrassingly, I took them and my old 2005 Dynastar race skis to my local ski shop and asked them to set me up with boots like hers. They gently informed me that my bindings were not indemnified. They sold me a pair of Dalbello Panterras, size 24.5, 102mm last, and a pair of Elan Ripsticks. The Ripsticks were a good choice, the Panterras not so much. Weeks later, the pandemic hit.

I swam in those Panterras for several years...but had so much fun introducing my kids to skiing. We were mainly on green groomed slopes. My feet were comfy and warm. Things were fine, until my kids got good enough to want to ski more challenging terrain and it became obvious I could not keep my feet from moving in those boots.

In 2023, after consuming much online ski content from podcasts, YouTube, SkiTalk, etc., I went to a highly recommended bootfitter in the Boston area, and I was fitted into the Head Formula RS in a 23.5, 98mm last. He did minimal work to the boot in the store and they felt snug and good. It did make sense to me that I really did need a LV boot. My feet have always been narrow and flexible. My feet measured at 23.x in length so this all made sense. And they were pretty good last year. I never had any pain or numbness, and I didn't have the problem with my forefoot sliding around anymore.

But this year has been a different story. I can't get the boots tight on my instep without cranking the second and third buckles, and leaving it loose results in my ankles inverting/moving while skiing. I did a shell fit and though the length seems appropriate, there is just so much volume in the foot without the liner around the ankle and over the instep. Without the liner, with the shell buckled for skiing, I can slide my foot easily in and out of the boot.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I really thought I had normal/narrow feet, but not way outside of the bell curve. I thought about ZipFits since I like the idea of them lasting a long time, but I'm pretty intimidated by the DIY process, and I don't really know how to tell if I'm even in the right shell. I don't mind the cost and time to get a different shell, but not sure what I should be looking for.

Do I need a 96mm last? That would essentially be a "race boot", right? Do I need a 22.5? That seems like it would be really short. I can easily imagine my boot being 2mm narrower. It's hard to imagine it being 1 cm shorter, my toes definitely are already touching the end of the boot most of the day. Do I just need a different LV 98mm last? Do I need a BOA or two, haha?

I know, I know, I need a boot fitter! But I feel like I could walk into any ski shop, get sold a boot fitters favorite all mountain/LV shell, walk out happy...and then be unhappy again a year later. I think if I have some idea of some models to try on...I could locate fitters who have experience in those and hopefully make some headway. I think having some idea of what direction to go would help me advocate for myself.

TL;DR - if a general 98mm LV all mountain boot is too wide after ~30 days of skiing, what are some models I should target to try? Any other Divas who have the same issue and have successfully solved it?
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Not all 98 boots are similar in width and all liners are not equal. There is a way to add a few layers of neoprene on the tongue to take up space on the instep as a fix. FWIW there are other diva's with small narrow feet, I'm sure they will chime in. If you have mobile skinny feet it will be a journey to find what works best, yes you can go race boot but they are canted more than consumer boots, it may or may not bug you. They also may have more forward lean. Just because it is a narrow last doesn't mean its narrow all around. I still needed instep padding on a plug boot. After being in a plug (no mods for width, just taking up volume) I am enjoying a Nordica Promachine in a 115, it has a more upright and taller boot cuff which I need. Other lower volume boots Atomic Redster STI, and one of the Solomon boots. And if your one of the lucky ones with mobile foot bones, don't second guess your bsl. I measure 24.5cm weighted but am in a 22.5 no problem.
 

badger

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The last width is not the only issue for those of us in LV boots. I wear a 21 boot. Not all my boots have been race boots, and those that are/were are Junior race boots. Length is one thing, but the volume over the top of the foot must be assessed. I had one particular Junior race boot that fit quite well last-wise, and lengthwise, but after one day of skiing in them I noticed that the boots seemed just a bit wider than I had felt during the fitting. Maybe because bootfitter was so busy dialing in the footbeds and making little adjustments, that this bit of volume over the navicular was neglected. By both of us. This boot shop is very well known, but there ya go... I have never made that mistake again. "Low volume " is about as predictable as "flex" rating. :wink:
 

scandium

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Back to the fitter. They should be able to do something to help in the short term, and should be able to support you to add an aftermarket liner if needed. Your liner has likely packed out a bit which will expose any deficiencies with the fit. I think a number of women with smaller/LV feet have ended up in the Atomic Redster STI longer-term, but the closer the fit the more likely you may need some work.
 

NewEnglandSkier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think you mentioned that you measure a 23.5 in length above? If that is the case it's possible you may be able to size down to 22.5 . . . .if you do have very low volume and narrow feet, it's not uncommon to have to go down a length size in order to get the overall volume that you need. So even if the last of the boot you have is a 98mm boot (will be narrower than that in 23.5), the lower you go on the size run the more the last and additionally the overall volume decreases.
Example--I measure a solid 24.5 but ski in a 23.5 due to narrow feet. I am currently in the Salomon S/Pro Alpha 110. Another boot that was suggested for me was an Atomic Redster. Low volume boots vs feet are funny---some boots that are marketed as low volume will feel huge. Feet are so individual.
Agree with others that you should go back to the fitter and explain what you are feeling--they can probably pad the instep depending on exactly how much volume there is to take up.
 

Maine Divaaaaa

Diva in Training
I have heads and narrow feet with high arches. I think they just run wide around the ankle. I race and even my coach says so. When I crank them too tight, I can feel my pulse in my legs, but when I loosen them, my ankle can slide around a little bit. I think this is just the way the boot is made sadly
 

SnowHot

Angel Diva
I'll mimic what some others have said. You may need a lower instep in a boot, and or go to a performance fit.
Example: I measure just a tad more than 24.5 but ski in a 23.5. I do wear a knee high nylon for a few days to get the liner to pack out to the shape of my foot then go to a thin ski sock.

When I ski in my measured size it only takes about 10-15 ski days for it to pack out too much and my feet start moving around in them.


So, using my example, you can see that you're fitted in a recreational fit in your current boots, but if you're skiing 20-50 days a year, a performance fit may be in order for you.

I fit @mustski a few years ago and she also measures a 24.5 and is skiing in the same boot I was in in a 23.5
 

Basil

Certified Ski Diva
Thanks all!

@Pequenita i think he called it a “semi custom” footbed. He chose a size for me, then heat molded it to my feet on a machine and cut it to size. I asked for custom but he said my feet didn’t need it.

@Maine Divaaaaa That’s useful information about Heads being big in the ankle.

I don’t really want to go back to the current fitter for reasons not really related to his fitting, so maybe I am just going to live with this until next year. I ordered some padding stickers off amazon but they make the boot feel weird and dull. Maybe I need to play with them more. Will be more choices in the fall and I’m a sucker for new/shiny anyways :smile:
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
This is the liner out of my Atomic Hawks. I believe I was taking this picture to show the heater cable, but....you can see a "fuzzy" very large pad. That takes up the space on the outside of my ankle and upper foot so the boot fit better.

A good boot fitter can do this and it's not as expensive as after market liners.

20181230_141547.jpg
 

MontanaMom

Certified Ski Diva
Really sounds like they're just packed out and you need new liners. Even intuition liners instead of zip fits if you don't want to spend the $$. If they fit for a while and now don't, that's what I'd point to.

That said if you're dying for new boots. Atomic Hawx Ultra Narrow have worked for my tiny feet and I just bought Solomon S Max supposed to be low volume. My ankles might be too small for them though
 

scandium

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks all!

@Pequenita i think he called it a “semi custom” footbed. He chose a size for me, then heat molded it to my feet on a machine and cut it to size. I asked for custom but he said my feet didn’t need it.

@Maine Divaaaaa That’s useful information about Heads being big in the ankle.

I don’t really want to go back to the current fitter for reasons not really related to his fitting, so maybe I am just going to live with this until next year. I ordered some padding stickers off amazon but they make the boot feel weird and dull. Maybe I need to play with them more. Will be more choices in the fall and I’m a sucker for new/shiny anyways :smile:
One of my temporary fixes for the too-large 102mm last 24.5cm boots I started my boot journey in was to put an entire piece of cork (6mm cut to size of the boot board) in under the liner to take up space in the instep. This won't work if it pops you up out of the heel pocket.

Currently I am in a 23.5cm Tecnica Mach1 LV with punches around my navicular and bunions.
 

Cassandra

Diva in Training
This is the liner out of my Atomic Hawks. I believe I was taking this picture to show the heater cable, but....you can see a "fuzzy" very large pad. That takes up the space on the outside of my ankle and upper foot so the boot fit better.

A good boot fitter can do this and it's not as expensive as after market liners.

View attachment 24186
A heater pad on the Atomic Hawx, that is a good idea. The boots are great, very slim and LV, but boy do your feet get cold in them. I got boot covers for when it is really cold and that helps the cold foot problem a lot.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
The heater is the typical thermic toe heater. That pad is to fill space between the liner and the shell. I don't think it did much for warmth. Why it was fuzzy, I don't know.
 

Cassandra

Diva in Training
I was fitted for a pair of boots, and got some Dalbellos, very warm and comfortable, but not great for narrow feet. Went to bootfitter, got Atomic Hawx Ultra, they had to be punched out in order to fit. One foot slightly wider than the other, they punched out the big toe on one side. They are also on the short side and are very hard to get on. I still wear them with the thinnest of socks and my feet do get cold. I have custom footbeds and try not to tighten them too tightly, as the foot cramps. That said, they are great!!! I have very flat feet, post bunion surgery, so no arch whatsoever to hold in the foot. I'm just happy that I can ski comfortably, except the cold feet part. At the time I bought the Dalbellos, I tried every boot in the shop, the only one that may have worked was a LW Head boot, but have since learned that they need to fit my larger foot and the other one can be punched out to fit.
 

contesstant

Angel Diva
Your instep/ankle measurement is arguably more important than length and width. Find a fitter who understands this and can measure this. I have spent 15+ years fiddling around in 23.5 then 22.5 boots on a 23.5 foot that is ultra narrow (83mm wide) but finally had a fitter measure my ankle/instep which is a 21.5. He not only put me in a 21.5 boot, but also a short cuff. I did have to have a custom foamed race liner done when I got the boot and I STILL am adding some padding, but when I add padding now (mostly over my toe area) it actually makes a difference. This boot just fits so much better, feels so much more intuitive. I think the short cuff also plays a huge role in this, and this fitter puts a lot of women in short cuff boots. I'm not saying that all women should be in short cuff boots, but it is definitely a parameter that is often overlooked. Now, I am working overtime trying to overcome the myriad of bad habits and fears that developed from skiing in boots that just did not fit.
 

Basil

Certified Ski Diva
Thanks all! I spent some time this past weekend playing with the padding around the ankles, since we were all home sick anyway. I'm hopefully skiing this coming weekend so I'll give it a go then.

@MontanaMom I do think the liners are slightly packed out, but I also only have about ~30-35 days on them at this point (I don't get to ski as much as I'd like). I would have expected it to last longer.

@contesstant wow, your feet are really narrow! I think mine measure about 91-92mm wide at the forefoot, which is narrow but not crazy narrow. Just out of curiosity, did your fitter say what anatomy makes a woman do better with the short cuff?
 

echo_VT

Angel Diva
@Basil i have the same problem. Low volume foot, high instep, feet would swim in the boots. I use a Lange race boot.

i ended up getting the zip fit liner as the padding is in the right place. There’s a thread here on them. But I’m really glad I did.

the stock liners packed out and instead of buying new boots I went for the liner and I’m glad I did. This is even more ideal than the boot shell I’d say. Have the power strap as well.

HTH
 

MontanaMom

Certified Ski Diva
Thanks all! I spent some time this past weekend playing with the padding around the ankles, since we were all home sick anyway. I'm hopefully skiing this coming weekend so I'll give it a go then.

@MontanaMom I do think the liners are slightly packed out, but I also only have about ~30-35 days on them at this point (I don't get to ski as much as I'd like). I would have expected it to last longer.

@contesstant wow, your feet are really narrow! I think mine measure about 91-92mm wide at the forefoot, which is narrow but not crazy narrow. Just out of curiosity, did your fitter say what anatomy makes a woman do better with the short cuff3
I do think 35 days is super short, but so you dry them with a boot dryer after each day? If not I'm told they'll pack out faster and I'm not sure how long Head liners are known to last. I was shocked that mine packed out at 80 days or so (which was only 2 years of use) and then dealt with loose boots for a season and a half.

I hope you find your answer, but truly good boots and a good fitter are worth it. Lots of brands offer narrow and low volume. Maybe try calling a shop and saying "hey, I'm nnit located near you but will buy from you to ship here if you can give me advice". They probably won't do that, and you might want to run if they do but if you try reputable shops you may get somewhere.
 

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