Body Image and Outdoor Models

[ski diva]

Go here for an interesting article on the effects of the outdoor industry using thin models instead of real women in their marketing materials.

What do you think?

 

[Gloria]

I think the article falls a little short tbh. I understand the part about choosing actual models in different sizes and shapes but not ambassadors. Ambassadors are what they are because they are good at what they do and are looked up to mainly for their achievements as inspirational figures not necessarily chosen by their body type. For a company like Patagonia who markets gear that is intended to be used for extremes, it does help to be able to show not only people using it in these extremes but the ability to be able to state why the product is superior in these situations and offer solid advice on product design. I really don’t think they are going out looking for skinny women to put on rock faces, they are simply using women who are pushing extremes in their sport that happen to be fit. A lifestyle company like Prana maybe pick on a little more as they tend to use more models than ambassadors or at least that is my impression.

 

[Little Lightning]

No matter what body type is picked the images will represent very few people. I don't see 5'1", 100 lb women represented in the picture in the article either. I do expect an outdoor company to show active, athletic, strong women no matter the body type.
Companies aren't going to invest money selling clothing for those on the wrong end of the bell curve. I used to be able to buy some brands that REI sells. I haven't changed in size or weight. Lately, none of their brands run small enough. I'm not familiar with the store that the author works for but I wonder if they would have outdoor clothing to fit me?
When I was in my 20's I made my clothing because no adult clothing fit me. That was before petite clothing was marketed. Most petite clothing these don't days fit. I'm still just as frustrated with clothing brands as ever. I've accepted that I'm on the wrong end of the bell curve and that's just the way it's going to be for me.
BTW, Prana doesn't fit me either. Smallest sizes are too big.

 

[santacruz skier]

Think Title Nine uses more "real" type women, all shapes and sizes....
Athleta as well. BTW @Little Lightning Athleta may fit you in XXS.

 

[Little Lightning]

Forgot to say that my SO's opinion is companies represent clothing the way they do is to give the impression that by wearing it one will be more comfortable and perform better. The images are for inspiration to get out and be active. Not that someone should look like the model. Just a man's opinion.

 

[Little Lightning]

Think Title Nine uses more "real" type women, all shapes and sizes....
Athleta as well. BTW @Little Lightning Athleta may fit you in XXS.

Sometimes, but if you read the reviews xxs reviewers often say the clothing runs large. I do better with Calia from Dick's. Most of her clothing fits well but it's more running, gym oriented.

 

[santacruz skier]

Also think Lole from Canada depicts normal women. Have bought a few things from them. Discovered in Chamonix a huge Lole store.
Also lululemon runs small but I'm so over it. I refuse to buy it anymore.

 

[Christy]

I implore outdoor brands to ask themselves: How can we, as an industry, change unrealistic body expectations for young girls and women? Our marketing is contributing to eating and exercise disorders.

Huh. I don't see the type of anorexic models that you see in Vogue or on the runway in outdoor ads. And I mean, it's marketing. It's meant to make you buy the clothes. Cooking magazines show finished dishes that don't look like what I make, either, but that's how it works. The pretty young model might make you buy the clothes, the beautiful pie on the cover might make you buy that cooking magazine. Even if my pie doesn't look like theirs, or if I don't look as good as the clothes models do, it still works for me.

But also, let's be careful with saying these models or that thin women in general aren't "real" woman. Whatever the average size is, there are going to be tens of millions of women smaller and larger than that.

 

[Gloria]

Huh. I don't see the type of anorexic models that you see in Vogue or on the runway in outdoor ads. And I mean, it's marketing. It's meant to make you buy the clothes. Cooking magazines show finished dishes that don't look like what I make, either, but that's how it works. The pretty young model might make you buy the clothes, the beautiful pie on the cover might make you buy that cooking magazine. Even if my pie doesn't look like theirs, or if I don't look as good as the clothes models do, it still works for me.

But also, let's be careful with saying these models or that thin women in general aren't "real" woman. Whatever the average size is, there are going to be tens of millions of women smaller and larger than that.

I love this. First the part about your cooking made me laugh. But second the part about real women struck a chord in me as well. I actually went and read some ambassador stories on the Prana and Patagonia websites, most of them were impressive beyond size or looks or athletic ability. Coming back from major injuries, doing great things for humankind pretty impressive humans really. I read some of the men’s too. One thing I notice is Patagonia has a wide array of women of all ages too.

 

[mustski]

There is always room for more representation of varying body types when it comes to women. We are incredibly diverse in our body shaping and sizing. I know that I struggle to find ski clothing short enough for me and petite sizing doesn’t work. It never did. I’m average bone structure- just short. That said, there is much more contributing to eating disorders than outdoor industry models. I taught 11, 12,13 year olds for 30 years. It might because I taught at beach schools, but the revealing clothing of certain decades seemed more dangerous to me. There was certainly always those struggling with eating disorders, but it seemed worse during skinny jeans/mid riff T-shirts than during grunge eras or legging and baby doll dress eras. I know I completely switched up my costuming, including cutting out sizing tags on store bought items.

 

[Christy]

but it seemed worse during skinny jeans/mid riff T-shirts than during grunge eras or legging and baby doll dress eras.

This is a tangent but when I was in my late teens to mid twenties clothes It was the "grunge" era and clothes were very unflattering (plus I live in Seattle which was and is not the epicenter of fashion). Baggy sweaters, flannel shirts, cutoffs worn over those waffle knit long underwear, even Carhartt jackets on women were a thing (in Seattle). Baby doll dresses over leggings were as good as it got. I remember a boyfriend saying once that he had no idea what my body looked like when I was wearing clothes. That's the age that supposedly is when women are most attractive (yes take that with a grain of salt), or let's say an age that is particularly appealing to men. I sometimes think about how dressing like a hobo might have actually affected my life. I think it might have in a good way. I did not have to deal with a lot of unwanted attention.

 

[Little Lightning]

I have a workout shirt with the saying "My Body Is Stronger Than I Look". Today I got this comment from a salesperson, "you are really tiny". I went into the dressing room, smiled to myself and thought "yes, I am strong".

Tonight this article popped up on my Facebook page. https://fitisafeministissue.com/2018/09/03/give-me-strength-guest-post/. In the article there are strong, athletic women of all shapes and sizes. I see lots of athletic women here in CO. I see their muscles, their strength, their ability, but not their size.

 

[echo_VT]

yes i stay away from outdoors companies not using real outdoors people. same goes for my running specific wear - i want to see real runners. snowboarding clothing typically uses real snowboarders that i've seen in their ads. and i've seen several ski wear use models. disappointed to see when arctery'x or patagonia use models instead of real athletes. it's more than annoying, it's just unrealistic and totally fake. if the sizing followed suit i would be pissed and no longer use them. it's enough dealing with this on a regular basis. of course it's the men making these decisions.

 

[Little Lightning]

This article explains the dilemma the outdoor industry is facing.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1998221/youths

If this is the case I can see outdoor designers focusing on a more youthful market. Do you ever see middle aged women or senior women represented in any of these ads? Yet, I see lots of these women outside exercising.

I'm also trying to figure out what an athletic woman looks like. I have a very old article on what it means to be an athlete. According to Webster's dictionary the word athlete originally comes from the word athlein, meaning to "contend for a prize. The article goes on to say that,
- an athlete is someone who is not afraid to try something new and keeps trying if they fail.
-An athlete is someone who takes joy in movement.
-An athlete is someone who knows they don't have to be on an organized sports team to have enthusiasm or be a winner.
-Most of all an athlete is someone who enjoys the rhythm of oxygen flowing through her body, welcomes the quickened beating of her heart during her workout and knows that efforts to make her body stronger make her mind stronger too.
-An athlete is dedicated to improving her health and ensuring that their life is not only longer but better.

This morning someone looking around my gym would have seen a woman about 40 ish, tall, thin. Another woman in her early 60's, my height but heavier. Me, age 70, 5'1, 100 lbs. There was also a young man who looked like a football player. If the observer were asked who the athlete was common wisdom would say the young man. However, in reality we are all athletes. We were learning something new, or improving our skills, we were enjoying how our body moves, we felt like winners, due to praise or compliments by our trainer. Whether we paid attention or not we were feeling the rhythm of oxygen flowing through our veins, the quickened heartbeat, improving our health etc.

My point is who knows what those "non athletic type" models can actually do? Maybe they can run a marathon, deadlift 100 lbs, or throw a fit ball so hard at the wall that on the rebound they almost knocked themselves over like I did today.

It's easy to judge an image or want to be like an image. However, images don't define who we are or what we can accomplish. Images don't breathe or move or enjoy life. They don't have emotional or physical strength. Images in outdoor clothing advertisements are produced by someone trying to convey their opinion of what they "think" an athlete should look like or be doing. Clothing companies know what sells and know who their target audience is. I know for sure I'm not in that target audience.

In my current activities I don't plan to "contend for a prize". Nontheless, I am an athlete, all 100 lbs of me.

 

[VickiK]

Well said, @Little Lightning .

 

[pinto]

...
My point is who knows what those "non athletic type" models can actually do? Maybe they can run a marathon, deadlift 100 lbs, or throw a fit ball so hard at the wall that on the rebound they almost knocked themselves over like I did today.

It's easy to judge an image or want to be like an image. However, images don't define who we are or what we can accomplish. Images don't breathe or move or enjoy life. They don't have emotional or physical strength. Images in outdoor clothing advertisements are produced by someone trying to convey their opinion of what they "think" an athlete should look like or be doing. Clothing companies know what sells and know who their target audience is. I know for sure I'm not in that target audience....

And ... at its simplest level, maybe the companies just want professionals to model for them, not "real" people.

 

[Christy]

I feel like we are all smart enough to understand what marketing is, and to know that marketers don't define the participants in any activity. To the extent that I pay attention to any ad I don't care that it's a model that doesn't look like me in a Patagonia ad just like I don't care that it's a model in a Sun Valley ad, in a yogurt ad, in a Nordstrom ad, in an airline ad...(other products that I consume). The only place I see middle age or older people are in insurance or prescription drug ads.

 

[Gloria]

I feel like we are all smart enough to understand what marketing is, and to know that marketers don't define the participants in any activity. To the extent that I pay attention to any ad I don't care that it's a model that doesn't look like me in a Patagonia ad just like I don't care that it's a model in a Sun Valley ad, in a yogurt ad, in a Nordstrom ad, in an airline ad...(other products that I consume). The only place I see middle age or older people are in insurance or prescription drug ads.

Roxanne Gould is modeling for Athleta and quite a few other clothing companies that may not be athletic/outdoors brands. Maye Musk is too I think.

 

[Gloria]

This article explains the dilemma the outdoor industry is facing.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1998221/youths

If this is the case I can see outdoor designers focusing on a more youthful market. Do you ever see middle aged women or senior women represented in any of these ads? Yet, I see lots of these women outside exercising.

I'm also trying to figure out what an athletic woman looks like. I have a very old article on what it means to be an athlete. According to Webster's dictionary the word athlete originally comes from the word athlein, meaning to "contend for a prize. The article goes on to say that,
- an athlete is someone who is not afraid to try something new and keeps trying if they fail.
-An athlete is someone who takes joy in movement.
-An athlete is someone who knows they don't have to be on an organized sports team to have enthusiasm or be a winner.
-Most of all an athlete is someone who enjoys the rhythm of oxygen flowing through her body, welcomes the quickened beating of her heart during her workout and knows that efforts to make her body stronger make her mind stronger too.
-An athlete is dedicated to improving her health and ensuring that their life is not only longer but better.

This morning someone looking around my gym would have seen a woman about 40 ish, tall, thin. Another woman in her early 60's, my height but heavier. Me, age 70, 5'1, 100 lbs. There was also a young man who looked like a football player. If the observer were asked who the athlete was common wisdom would say the young man. However, in reality we are all athletes. We were learning something new, or improving our skills, we were enjoying how our body moves, we felt like winners, due to praise or compliments by our trainer. Whether we paid attention or not we were feeling the rhythm of oxygen flowing through our veins, the quickened heartbeat, improving our health etc.

My point is who knows what those "non athletic type" models can actually do? Maybe they can run a marathon, deadlift 100 lbs, or throw a fit ball so hard at the wall that on the rebound they almost knocked themselves over like I did today.

It's easy to judge an image or want to be like an image. However, images don't define who we are or what we can accomplish. Images don't breathe or move or enjoy life. They don't have emotional or physical strength. Images in outdoor clothing advertisements are produced by someone trying to convey their opinion of what they "think" an athlete should look like or be doing. Clothing companies know what sells and know who their target audience is. I know for sure I'm not in that target audience.

In my current activities I don't plan to "contend for a prize". Nontheless, I am an athlete, all 100 lbs of me.

This article hits a point that I am seeing. When I was in college I knew easily 30 other females to ski with, today at least that if not more. Any activity I did or do I know multiple women to go with. DD is now in college and it’s completely the opposite. She has one female and one male friend both late 20’s to ski with but most often she skis with a group of males that are between 35-40 and one woman that is around 40. She has one female friend her age to kayak with a handful of males late 20’s early 30’s some of the men she skis with and another group of women who are roughly my age. People her age really aren’t getting out doing things. She knows a handful of females her age that climb, but actually getting them to go is a whole other story.

 

[mustski]

People her age really aren’t getting out doing things. She knows a handful of females her age that climb, but actually getting them to go is a whole other story.

I see the same thing with my son's group of friends. In their case, they enjoy hiking and skiing/snowboarding but just don't have much time. Between school and work, they are more busy than I ever was. Something that I have also noticed is that camping has become more expensive when you take into account the gas to drive there and the cost of the campsite. Wilderness camping appeals to a specific group that has always been smaller than mainstream. DS and his friends seem to opt for AirBnB travels. Although not truly millennials (21yrs old) they seem more interested in travelling the world to different locations that in exploring the outdoors.