Black Crows Camox Birdie chatter—binding issue?

[aliwill]

I just bought a pair of Black Crows Camox Birdies as my daily driver, and after a full week on BC's Powder Highway (without a lot of new snow) I came up against one problem: chatter when speeding down groomers. Painful chatter, the kind that requires a better sports bra. At the end of each hard turn, I got jarring bounces on the hardpack. I worry about what that does to my knees!

Right now I have Fritschi Techtons on them because I wanted to make them available for possible touring—but since they are strongest in tight bumps, I'm not sure they'll ever actually go out of bounds (I have two other dedicated touring pairs). Would alpine bindings totally fix this? Or should I just come to terms with the fact that they're not built for speed, and no one ski is gonna do everything? I don't really want a dedicated carving ski, but want to be able to bomb groomers when the rest of the mountain is sucky.

Boots are Lange Freetour 110 LVs. Thanks for the advice!

 

[WaterGirl]

@aliwill do you have the Fritschi on other skis to compare?
How fast are you going

 

[aliwill]

I do have Fritschi Techtons on my Soul 7s, but hard to compare because I don't tend to open them up on groomers at top speed—I pretty much save them for powder I wouldn't say I'm *crazy* fast on groomers...I know girls that rip faster (ahem, @Analisa), but I just tracked myself during my 10-day Powder Highway trip and I my top speed was around 43 mph.

I figure leg strength may be at play here, but I'm curious if it's worthwhile to swap out for inbounds bindings to make the Camox Birdies a true all-mountain resort ski!

 

[WaterGirl]

There are so many variables so I'm not sure how to respond if its the binding - not sure what size ski your on, what type snow etc. Want to make sure its the Camox Birdie, not the Camox tour ski - they are similar but quite different. Wouldn't want the tour ski on icy groomers.

I've had the Camox Birdie for 2.5 seasons with alpine bindings. The only time I've had chatter was a few weeks ago venturing into tightly spaced icy sastrugi - any any ski would have performed like that, it was not fun.

While it may cost $ but not drill holes - is there anyway you can demo a pair with alpine bindings?

 

[aliwill]

There are so many variables so I'm not sure how to respond if its the binding - not sure what size ski your on, what type snow etc. Want to make sure its the Camox Birdie, not the Camox tour ski - they are similar but quite different. Wouldn't want the tour ski on icy groomers.

I've had the Camox Birdie for 2.5 seasons with alpine bindings. The only time I've had chatter was a few weeks ago venturing into tightly spaced icy sastrugi - any any ski would have performed like that, it was not fun.

While it may cost $ but not drill holes - is there anyway you can demo a pair with alpine bindings?

Nope, definitely not the Freebird! (Though I've eyed those for my next touring setup...and my Techtons would need a place to go if they come off!) The Camox Birdies are 165 for a 5'6"/140lb skier—and BC admittedly recommends the 174 for aggressive skiers at that height. But I wouldn't want to haul a ski that long around tight bumps, so I'm otherwise happy with the 165s.

I'm not even sure I'd call it chatter (a word I've always used to mean chattery tips when flat; this isn't that); it's more that skittering/skipping when I engage hard at the end of a fast turn. On groomed hardpack, pretty much the only place I aim to ski super fast! Dialing up the pressure in my legs helps it happen a little less, but then when it *does* it's even more jarring.

It's kind of a bummer to feel like I can't open up all the way on groomers on what was supposed to be my all-mountain ski, and my only guess is to switch to an alpine binding. The only demo shop with BCs around here is pricy ($50+ for a half day!)...but it may be between spending $50 on that or risking $200 for the binding!

 

[mustski]

Hmmm. I am not expert on the Camox Birdies, but painful chatter on groomers at speeds under 43 just sounds wrong to me. I am not a super strong woman, but I have never experienced painful chatter and I spend a lot of time on groomers (sigh!) and tend to ski faster than I should from time to time. I would say something is wrong. Maybe get the tune checked. Chatter caused by a bad tune doesn't show up in soft snow.

 

[elemmac]

I'm not even sure I'd call it chatter (a word I've always used to mean chattery tips when flat; this isn't that); it's more that skittering/skipping when I engage hard at the end of a fast turn. On groomed hardpack, pretty much the only place I aim to ski super fast! Dialing up the pressure in my legs helps it happen a little less, but then when it *does* it's even more jarring.

Generally I’d say this sounds like either a problem of applying too much or too little pressure to the skis. Too much pressure on a ski that wide, can slip out of its track and skip across the snow. Too little pressure and it doesn’t dig in enough, and will not hold in an arced turn.

If it’s too much pressure, it’s probably the ski is too soft for those speeds in the size you have. If it’s the not enough, it could be a technique modification you need to make, or it could be due to the binding not transmitting enough pressure to the ski in the way you want it to.

Prior to jumping into changing bindings, I would get a solid tune on the skis. Make them SHARP, make sure they’re set to at least a 1 degree base, 2 degree side. I’m not sure what black crows come at, but many of the more free ride brands will come with 1:1. A sharper edge will allow you to get the ski into a trench better, and may help prevent skipping. This should help if the latter is the problem, and you’re not bending the ski enough.

 

[aliwill]

Prior to jumping into changing bindings, I would get a solid tune on the skis. Make them SHARP, make sure they’re set to at least a 1 degree base, 2 degree side. I’m not sure what black crows come at, but many of the more free ride brands will come with 1:1. A sharper edge will allow you to get the ski into a trench better, and may help prevent skipping. This should help if the latter is the problem, and you’re not bending the ski enough.

Thanks, I'll give this a try! That and working out a bit more.