Black Crows Atris Birdie - what length?

[rbkvail]

Hi! I am a Black Crows fan . I own a pair of 2020 Camox Birdies (162cm). Love them! They work great for what I enjoy skiing. We live in the Vail Valley and ski mostly Beaver Creek and Vail. I am the happiest in bumps and fresh snow (who isn't!!!). I also enjoy groomers but find myself spending most of the time in variable (un groomed) terrain. I am 5'5" and weigh 120lbs. I started skiing in my early 30s and have about 13 seasons under my belt! I should mention I have experience with wider skis as I own a pair of K2 - 106 wide.

I am interested in the BC Atris Birdie. My local shop has them for demo at 160cm and 169cm. Given my height and style of skiing I can go either way with length. The ski shop guy insists I should go with 160cm. I plan to demo both but I need opinion as to how do I identify which one is a better fit for me. I think if the 169cm feels long I would be able to tell but.....how would I know if the 160cm are too short for me? What does "ski short" feels like? Thank you!

 

[santacruz skier]

paging @WaterGirl ....

 

[scandium]

The Atris is a ski that does need you to be able to drive it, so I think the length choice comes down to ski style as well and whether you always drive fairly hard or back off at times. When I demo'd the Atris in 160cm, it skiied me because I wasn't feeling confident where I took them off piste and as a consequence, was doing more "survival" (backseat) skiing and not getting forward or flexing them properly for short turns, which they needed.

Skis that are too short typically (to me) feel unstable, they may chatter, they don't hold in a turn where I want them to, and I feel easily off balance and "swivelly" (like if you ski on snow blades).

 

[rbkvail]

The Atris is a ski that does need you to be able to drive it, so I think the length choice comes down to ski style as well and whether you always drive fairly hard or back off at times. When I demo'd the Atris in 160cm, it skiied me because I wasn't feeling confident where I took them off piste and as a consequence, was doing more "survival" (backseat) skiing and not getting forward or flexing them properly for short turns, which they needed.

Skis that are too short typically (to me) feel unstable, they may chatter, they don't hold in a turn where I want them to, and I feel easily off balance and "swivelly" (like if you ski on snow blades).

Thanks! This is helpful. Did you try the 169cm? Would you say your experience with the 160cm is it because they were too short?

 

[scandium]

I didn't get on the 169cm as I hated the experience I had on the 160cm. Bear in mind that I am not as confident or competent on ungroomed snow compared with groomers as I travel to ski so am at the mercy of whatever weather I get.

The 160cm was the "right" length for me - off piste the feeling I had from them was of skis that were too long and too wide for me. I think they felt that way because I was skiing them in the backseat due to fear and not feeling comfortable with them. Once I was back on the groomed slopes which did have a nice little dusting of fresh snow, the length felt fine but the width bugged me as getting on edge felt like hard work.

 

[WaterGirl]

@rbkvail What is your goal for the Atris if you have the Camox and the K2 106? Replacing one or just adding are you happy on the 162 camox ?

I am a firm believer in the BC "size finder" charts. (Found on BC website above the ski sizes for each ski) We are in the same height category 160 - 165cm | 5'3" - 5'5" and for the Camox Birdie you are on the "Relaxed size" or 162.

For the Atris Birdie the relaxed size is 160.
160 - 165cm | 5'3" - 5'5"
Relaxed: 160cm , Agressive: 169cm

Are you wanting more from the 162? Are you needing a deep powder ski ?

Sometimes I find that a ski size break is either spot on or too short /to long. Can you demo both ?

 

[Analisa]

I have your stats and went 169. They’re not the most forgiving in the backseat, but they’re easy to bend if your weight is neutral or forward.

+1 to sticking to the BC size chart. Your Camox puts you on the “relaxed” column for your height on those, and the equivalent is the 160 for the Atris. Or 169 if you’re looking for more ski. In comparison to other skis, they feel a lot more nimble than the 169 Santa Ana 110 (the old version with 2 full sheets of titanal), a little nimble than the Ripstick 102 in a 170 or Pandora 104 in a 172. And on par with the 172 Sheeva 10.

I wrote a review on mine and happy to answer any other questions - the freeride spot in my quiver somehow got questionably stacked, but I definitely reach for the Atrises most.

Gear Review: Women’s Black Crows Atris Birdie Skis

My Black Crows Atris Birdies remind me a lot of Elle Woods. First of all, I’ve got one of the older topsheets that’s covered in pink. Second, they got me hooked with the bend and snap. The mid-100s…

femignarly.com

 

[rbkvail]

@rbkvail What is your goal for the Atris if you have the Camox and the K2 106? Replacing one or just adding are you happy on the 162 camox ?

I am a firm believer in the BC "size finder" charts. (Found on BC website above the ski sizes for each ski) We are in the same height category 160 - 165cm | 5'3" - 5'5" and for the Camox Birdie you are on the "Relaxed size" or 162.

For the Atris Birdie the relaxed size is 160.
160 - 165cm | 5'3" - 5'5"
Relaxed: 160cm , Agressive: 169cm

Are you wanting more from the 162? Are you needing a deep powder ski ?

Sometimes I find that a ski size break is either spot on or too short /to long. Can you demo both ?

My goal is to replace the K2. I really enjoy the Camox and, I think, the Atris will be a great ski for deep powder and back bowls. I am going to demo the 160cm tomorrow. The one 169cm reaches the top of my head and it’s intimitating. When I drop in the back bowls I don’t charge straight down. I like to make some turns, and someone said the 160cm may be better for that. Yes, I can demo both and maybe I will do that! Thank you .

 

[rbkvail]

I didn't get on the 169cm as I hated the experience I had on the 160cm. Bear in mind that I am not as confident or competent on ungroomed snow compared with groomers as I travel to ski so am at the mercy of whatever weather I get.

The 160cm was the "right" length for me - off piste the feeling I had from them was of skis that were too long and too wide for me. I think they felt that way because I was skiing them in the backseat due to fear and not feeling comfortable with them. Once I was back on the groomed slopes which did have a nice little dusting of fresh snow, the length felt fine but the width bugged me as getting on edge felt like hard work.

Got it!! It makes sense. Well, I will try the 160cm tomorrow and will report back. Since I now ski the Camox which is almost the same design but wider, I’m hopeful I won’t hate it but we will see! Thanks

 

[rbkvail]

I have your stats and went 169. They’re not the most forgiving in the backseat, but they’re easy to bend if your weight is neutral or forward.

+1 to sticking to the BC size chart. Your Camox puts you on the “relaxed” column for your height on those, and the equivalent is the 160 for the Atris. Or 169 if you’re looking for more ski. In comparison to other skis, they feel a lot more nimble than the 169 Santa Ana 110 (the old version with 2 full sheets of titanal), a little nimble than the Ripstick 102 in a 170 or Pandora 104 in a 172. And on par with the 172 Sheeva 10.

I wrote a review on mine and happy to answer any other questions - the freeride spot in my quiver somehow got questionably stacked, but I definitely reach for the Atrises most.

Gear Review: Women’s Black Crows Atris Birdie Skis

My Black Crows Atris Birdies remind me a lot of Elle Woods. First of all, I’ve got one of the older topsheets that’s covered in pink. Second, they got me hooked with the bend and snap. The mid-100s…

femignarly.com

Thank you!! I have read your review a few times! Loves it. It’s so informative, scientific and fact driven . I am an Engineer by trade and I like you style!
Sounds like I “should” feel better with the 160cm. I’ll demo them tomorrow and report back. Conditions aren’t great but I think that is even better. I’m sure I like them in powder….it’s the other stuff I’m worried about. I’ll try them in bumps and trees too. Stay tuned.

 

[mcmary]

I also ski the Atris Birdie. I'm 5'2" 135lbs and I have the 160cm which feels perfect for me. I actually demoed the 178cm Atris because that was the shortest one they had available. Local shops had a free demo day and I tried 10 different skis that day. The Atris was the last one I tried. I did two runs on them and that was enough for me to take a chance and order the 160s. Even in the 178 I liked them better than any other ski I tried that day. I did find after skiing them for a few weeks that my old boots that I knew I needed to replace definitely had to go. They do need to be driven and I couldn't drive them in my sloppy old boots.

 

[rbkvail]

I also ski the Atris Birdie. I'm 5'2" 135lbs and I have the 160cm which feels perfect for me. I actually demoed the 178cm Atris because that was the shortest one they had available. Local shops had a free demo day and I tried 10 different skis that day. The Atris was the last one I tried. I did two runs on them and that was enough for me to take a chance and order the 160s. Even in the 178 I liked them better than any other ski I tried that day. I did find after skiing them for a few weeks that my old boots that I knew I needed to replace definitely had to go. They do need to be driven and I couldn't drive them in my sloppy old boots.

I appreciate your feedback. I skied them today. I really like them. I skied the 160cm and I can tell where in the groomers I could benefit from the 169cm. However, given how much I love the bumps I don’t want to sacrifice that. They were great on the hard, clumped old powder and in the bumps. I even took them on a tree run. I could feel how you have to unload, flex, to turn but boy, do they react!! They really do what you want them to do. I would say, even more so than my Camox. Im supposed to try them on powder tomorrow. Crossing fingers!

 

[rbkvail]

Thank you all for your input and help. This is exactly what I needed. I went "mentally ready" to get the most of my demo of the Atris - 160cm. I stayed forward (which I tent to do anyways) and paid attention to flex, chatter and pivot-y. I can see where the 169cm would be better for me but I skied the bumps really well and I was very happy. I felt stable and the skis were very easy to turn from edge to edge. I was very impressed! The skis feel heavy when carrying them (maybe because of the demo bindings too) but they didn't feel heavy while skiing. I liked how stable they felt and how easy they were to pivot when needed, at a moments notice. Loved them!! THANK YOU

 

[WaterGirl]

so now that the trade shows/ demos have taken place for 2023 I see that Powder 7 is letting out some intel on next years Crows..... Thinking I will need to get on current versions sometime this year.

@Analisa any thoughts no the changes?

Graphic and structural updates to the Captis, Captis Birdie, Camox, and Camox Birdie. Black Crows reduced the rocker in these skis and moved the contact points out toward the tips and tails. They also feature softer flex patterns. The claim? More able across frontside terrain and conditions while still being versatile all-mountain skis.

Graphic and structural updates to the Atris, and Atris Birdie. Changes mirror the edits to the other all-mountain/freeride skis listed above: new contact points, new rocker lines, new flex. Additionally, the Atris slims down a bit to a 105mm waist width.

https://www.powder7.com/ski-blog/black-crows-skis-preview/

 

[rbkvail]

Thanks for bringing this up. When I was about to buy them I came across the review of the 2023 lineup/changes, that you mention. That drove me to buy these now. I really like the double rocker and the 108mm width. I’m sure the 2023 will be great but I love how snappy they are now and was fearful that it may be toned down.

 

[WaterGirl]

Thanks for bringing this up.... I’m sure the 2023 will be great but I love how snappy they are now and was fearful that it may be toned down.

Yes, so my concern was that the current Camox Birdie was already toned down from the version I own. Like you pointed out not sure how the 2023 changes will affect the skis, but I realized need to get on the current Atris and see how it changed from the OG and then find out more about the next generation. Its on my short list for a 105+/-

 

[rbkvail]

Exactly! What I understood is that they were making it more “accessible”. I hope that doesn’t mean more vanilla. I was telling my husband today that when I skied my 105 K2 mindbender yesterday they felt light, I can move them around but they are bla. When I ski my Camox I feel we are a team. They give me feedback and we work together.

 

[lisamamot]

Yes, so my concern was that the current Camox Birdie was already toned down from the version I own.

Agreed. I demoed the Camox Birdie (2018?) - hot pink with purple - and found them quite confidence inspiring; I skied without qualm in choppy conditions that would normally make me a bit tentative. I haven’t been on the current iteration, but knew of the change and wondered if they lost some of what appealed to me. Another toning down concerns me too! I have been, not so secretly, hoping to eventually get a pair. Hmmmm.

 

[rbkvail]

Get the current ones. I have them!

 

[WaterGirl]

Agreed. I demoed the Camox Birdie (2018?) - hot pink with purple - and found them quite confidence inspiring; I skied without qualm in choppy conditions that would normally make me a bit tentative. I haven’t been on the current iteration, but knew of the change and wondered if they lost some of what appealed to me. Another toning down concerns me too! I have been, not so secretly, hoping to eventually get a pair. Hmmmm.

I think you mean this one, and yes its the same construction as @santacruz skier and I have from the previous year, but ours have a purple top sheet with same pattern.

When they changed the sizing from 156/165/174 to the current sizing they also changed the construction. I haven't gotten on the newer model yet so can't compare. I was surprised when @Kimmyt noted in her recent review that the Cammox Birdie was not a crud buster b/c I find them to be quite capable.

@lisamamot if you wanted some thing with a bit "more" you may like the Orb Birdie, has the same Black Crow DNA but with titanal H for additional stiffness. Granted a bit more frontside oriented at 88 and not double rocker but could be a fun east coast ski. FWIW it appears the Orb "birdie" is not coming back but they did extend their Orb sizing.

Finally, its going to be hard to find the prior years ski. They did not make that many the first few years and they have always sold out of the Cammox Birdie. However, the Camox is the same as the Camox Birdie so perhaps it would be easier to find an older version in a 174 in the mens graphics.....

I kind of feel like its the Samba/Black Pearl changes -- you like the OG and then its changed for the masses.