Has anyone else noticed this? We skied yesterday and I just kept noticing what I feel is bad manners: not alternating in the lift lines, not paying attention to other skiers, just stopping wherever on the mountain, and lots of younger people, (teens) with bad language. My kids look at me with the "please don't say anything, Mom" look! Could it just be that it was still holiday, and lots of people who ski only once a year, or is it a trend?
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Bad Manners or am I getting old?
- Thread starter Skimom
- Start date
Funny you should mention this. I did some night skiing last night at a local ski area. Whenever I board a chairlift, if the lift attendant does his/her job and holds the chair while I sit down, I always say "thank you." Last night, it struck me that every time I said thanks, the lift attendant acted shocked, and shouted an enthusiastic "You're welcome" back at me as I pulled away on the chair.
On the flip side, I was standing in a very short lift line and the snowboarder in front of me was by himself. I was making my way to the loading point behind him, and all of a sudden I get nudged from behind as his buddy said loudly and sarcastically, "um, excuse me!!" because I was supposed to know he wanted to ride up with the kid in front of me. It was all I could do not to elbow him in the face.
So to answer your question, yes, I'm noticing more and more a lack of simple manners and courtesy. The more crowded a ski area is, the more evident it becomes. The stuff coming out of the mouths of some of the younger kids makes me cringe, and I don't shock too easily.
My mom would have chased me down the mountain with a bar of soap if I used that language at that age.
On the flip side, I was standing in a very short lift line and the snowboarder in front of me was by himself. I was making my way to the loading point behind him, and all of a sudden I get nudged from behind as his buddy said loudly and sarcastically, "um, excuse me!!" because I was supposed to know he wanted to ride up with the kid in front of me. It was all I could do not to elbow him in the face.
So to answer your question, yes, I'm noticing more and more a lack of simple manners and courtesy. The more crowded a ski area is, the more evident it becomes. The stuff coming out of the mouths of some of the younger kids makes me cringe, and I don't shock too easily.
My mom would have chased me down the mountain with a bar of soap if I used that language at that age.
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Have I noticed? Yes. Still holiday, yes, annual onslaught still, yes. Trend? HOPE NOT. Where was this? I have found that there is quite a bit of variation between ski resorts for these tendencies. It's the vibe. The weekend vibe at one of the resorts I frequent is SO OVER THE TOP for this kind of stuff that I simply refuse to go there anymore on weekends or holidays. I've been hit, I've been hurt - no more. In line with the thread that came up yesterday - Stupid Moves - I pretty much had an ongoing list while I was skiing yesterday...before I ever saw the thread.
And then there's the gem resort at which the skiers/riders generally demonstrate better manners, there is often better segregation of slope difficulty without too many cross-overs, better lift line management, etc.
Sometimes the contrast can be glaring. I think things will be settling out as we move past New Year's --- at least until MLK weekend, then after that, President's week.
Here in northern New England, March is die-hard season. The folks who come up from farther south are done with snow and leave it behind for golf and spring cleaning. The vibe is generally great, especially into late March-early April.
Hang in there....
MaineSkiLady, is there such a gem resort? If so, I'd be willing to drive to it!
You're right about the weekend crowds. What I experienced last night was middle school and high school ski clubs that arrived at the ski area by the busload. The crowd was the size of a weekend crowd, and it was nearly all preteen and teenagers, with minimal adult supervision.
Note to self... do NOT go to that ski area for night skiing on a Friday night!
You're right about the weekend crowds. What I experienced last night was middle school and high school ski clubs that arrived at the ski area by the busload. The crowd was the size of a weekend crowd, and it was nearly all preteen and teenagers, with minimal adult supervision.
Note to self... do NOT go to that ski area for night skiing on a Friday night!
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Where did you experience this, Mountain Creek?MaineSkiLady, is there such a gem resort? If so, I'd be willing to drive to it!
You're right about the weekend crowds. What I experienced last night was middle school and high school ski clubs that arrived at the ski area by the busload. The crowd was the size of a weekend crowd, and it was nearly all preteen and teenagers, with minimal adult supervision.
Note to self... do NOT go to that ski area for night skiing on a Friday night!
Yeah, I saw this once too - on the only time I had to be there. Wow, onslaught is right. As to your question, is there such a gem - THERE IS. ARE. Both Saddleback and Sugarloaf in Maine. Saddleback is the up 'n comer here, with great expansion plans, pretty retro right now but SOOOO relaxed for vibe. YESSSS. Sugarloaf is hard core. Its seemingly remote location (I'm used to it) gives it that "middle of nowhere" reputation. It can be a busy place on mid-winter weekends, but there is a NOTABLE lack of b-s. At least compared to other places. Basing this on only about 6 years of 40+ day seasons, so I'm not the expert on this, but it's my perception.
Worth the trip? Absofrickinlutely.
w.ski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
MaineSkiLady, is there such a gem resort? If so, I'd be willing to drive to it!
You're right about the weekend crowds. What I experienced last night was middle school and high school ski clubs that arrived at the ski area by the busload. The crowd was the size of a weekend crowd, and it was nearly all preteen and teenagers, with minimal adult supervision.
Note to self... do NOT go to that ski area for night skiing on a Friday night!
This happens every week day at my local area. Years ago the first year my son went on the ski bus from school (started in 4th grade), I went to the area and skied by myself, just to be around if he needed me (never did, of course!). Never again - what a zoo! Now whenever I ski there, I'm sure to be off the slopes by about 2:30 or 3:00 when the buses start rolling in.
We were skiing in VT after Christmas, waiting in the lift line. A group came pushing in from one of the feeder lines without waiting their turn. One of them loudly complained that there should be someone working there to tell people when it was their turn. My son pointed to the young girl working and told them there was, indeed, someone working there. The guy responded (as he and his group pushed past everyone) that she should be more aggressive about it!
We were at Mary Jane, which is by far our favorite place to ski, and I don't seem to recall these issues on the many other trips there! I'm hoping it was just a fluke. With regard to the language, I usually don't hesitate saying anything, but it embarasses my kids. They know how I feel, so I don't feel that I should always be the language police!
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So glad to hear that Mary Jane has retained its civility - been years since I was there. Winter Park still okay, too? I had to be at Mountain Creek NJ for a 3 day thing 2 years ago (USSA Grand Prix). Aside from the competition stuff and myriad of press, I felt like I was smack dab in the middle of a "Sopranos" episode.... ..... the generic f* word as every adjective....even from the bartenders!! 
Language is one thing, could live without the expletives. But it's the actual on-snow nonsense that drives me nuts. And the chairlift line etiiquette -- or lack thereof. And I hear that, in the latter's regard, European ski resorts absolutely trump us for push-shove-outta my way - hope I'm wrong, never have been there.
..... the generic f* word as every adjective....even from the bartenders!! Language is one thing, could live without the expletives. But it's the actual on-snow nonsense that drives me nuts. And the chairlift line etiiquette -- or lack thereof. And I hear that, in the latter's regard, European ski resorts absolutely trump us for push-shove-outta my way
- hope I'm wrong, never have been there.MSL, my experience was at Shawnee in PA--a small mountain, but within 45 minutes of my home and a reasonable weeknight skiing jaunt. I know the local middle and high schools also go to Mountain Creek, so I have absolutely no doubt that it's a mirror image of Shawnee at those times.
Sorry to say that the NJ teens, at least in my experience, can be rather foul-mouthed, especially when they're hanging out with their friends. Not all of them, but certainly enough to make us "mature adults" feel like we're constantly ducking the F-bombs.
I've heard from more than one skier with European skiing experience that shoving and skiing over other people's skis in the lift lines is far more commonplace there. I'd so love to ski in Europe, but I'd probably end up in jail the first time someone skied over the backs of my skis.
If I had to choose between a beefed-up, modern, larger resort-type ski area and a retro one, I'd choose the laid-back retro style every time. I've been to a couple of ski areas that are what I'd consider to be more bare-bones and low-keyed areas, but I've had the most fun skiing there because people who were there were polite, friendly, and made the whole experience great. My SO and I hit Butternut on the way home from Stowe a couple of years back, and we were there right after the area got a decent amount of snow, which was still coming down the whole day we skied there, making the snow conditions optimal. That was one of the more memorable ski days for me, because it was lots of fun, the atmosphere was friendly and family-oriented, and there was no swearing, pushing, shoving or rudeness the whole time. People smiled at each other and engaged in friendly small talk, both in lift lines and in the lodge.
Our weekends for this ski season are pretty much planned out through our trip to UT, but if we don't get up to Maine this season, I'd love to plan a weekend there next winter to experience Saddleback and Sugarloaf. I've heard nothing but good things about both places. I have a friend who is up there this weekend for the first time, and I'm sure I'll get the full report when she returns.
Sorry to say that the NJ teens, at least in my experience, can be rather foul-mouthed, especially when they're hanging out with their friends. Not all of them, but certainly enough to make us "mature adults" feel like we're constantly ducking the F-bombs.
I've heard from more than one skier with European skiing experience that shoving and skiing over other people's skis in the lift lines is far more commonplace there. I'd so love to ski in Europe, but I'd probably end up in jail the first time someone skied over the backs of my skis.
If I had to choose between a beefed-up, modern, larger resort-type ski area and a retro one, I'd choose the laid-back retro style every time. I've been to a couple of ski areas that are what I'd consider to be more bare-bones and low-keyed areas, but I've had the most fun skiing there because people who were there were polite, friendly, and made the whole experience great. My SO and I hit Butternut on the way home from Stowe a couple of years back, and we were there right after the area got a decent amount of snow, which was still coming down the whole day we skied there, making the snow conditions optimal. That was one of the more memorable ski days for me, because it was lots of fun, the atmosphere was friendly and family-oriented, and there was no swearing, pushing, shoving or rudeness the whole time. People smiled at each other and engaged in friendly small talk, both in lift lines and in the lodge.
Our weekends for this ski season are pretty much planned out through our trip to UT, but if we don't get up to Maine this season, I'd love to plan a weekend there next winter to experience Saddleback and Sugarloaf. I've heard nothing but good things about both places. I have a friend who is up there this weekend for the first time, and I'm sure I'll get the full report when she returns.
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
SueNJ, hope your friend has a great weekend up here, weather's perfect, snow's awesome (though next week's forecast scares me....). Will probably have been quite busy, even at Saddleback, but as we've been discussing, both areas are adept in attitude/demeanor and capability.
Sure would love to meet up with you should you make plans to haul up this way - I'd be glad to dispense lodging advice, etc. in such a way that you'd be able to experience both resorts conveniently without mega-expense (CAN be done!).
If you can swing it, later is better. Long after other more southerly and lower elevation resorts have mushed out, Saddleback and Sugarloaf, with higher elevations and generally colder climates, rock powder well into April. Heck, last Easter was like January up there! From April 1-10 last year, both resorts had 95" of snow. For east, in APRIL, that's significant. We were skiing on 6-7 foot bases in 55 degrees last April 21st.
Now that I've whet your appetite
....!!
Sure would love to meet up with you should you make plans to haul up this way - I'd be glad to dispense lodging advice, etc. in such a way that you'd be able to experience both resorts conveniently without mega-expense (CAN be done!).
If you can swing it, later is better. Long after other more southerly and lower elevation resorts have mushed out, Saddleback and Sugarloaf, with higher elevations and generally colder climates, rock powder well into April. Heck, last Easter was like January up there! From April 1-10 last year, both resorts had 95" of snow. For east, in APRIL, that's significant. We were skiing on 6-7 foot bases in 55 degrees last April 21st.
Now that I've whet your appetite
....!!
Severine
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I understand what you're saying. I work at the local ski hill and see it both when I'm working and when I'm there skiing (though when I'm working, I'm scanning tickets and I try to block the way of those whose turn it is not to make it more fair for everyone else 
). Last night I was skiing and I was getting pretty ticked off about those who were taking advantage of no scanner and commandeering the line. :mad: I must have waited through 6 pairs of people to get to someone who would let me get in for my turn on the lift (when it was my turn before all those other people). Geez!
I've found that if I stick mostly to night skiing on weeknights (Fridays don't count) then it's not as bad. But then again, that's simply because it's not as busy. Otherwise, I think people are just plain rude these days. No consideration for anyone else, and it's really sad.
). Last night I was skiing and I was getting pretty ticked off about those who were taking advantage of no scanner and commandeering the line. :mad: I must have waited through 6 pairs of people to get to someone who would let me get in for my turn on the lift (when it was my turn before all those other people). Geez!I've found that if I stick mostly to night skiing on weeknights (Fridays don't count) then it's not as bad. But then again, that's simply because it's not as busy. Otherwise, I think people are just plain rude these days. No consideration for anyone else, and it's really sad.
Sure would love to meet up with you should you make plans to haul up this way - I'd be glad to dispense lodging advice, etc. in such a way that you'd be able to experience both resorts conveniently without mega-expense (CAN be done!).
If you can swing it, later is better. Long after other more southerly and lower elevation resorts have mushed out, Saddleback and Sugarloaf, with higher elevations and generally colder climates, rock powder well into April. Heck, last Easter was like January up there! From April 1-10 last year, both resorts had 95" of snow. For east, in APRIL, that's significant. We were skiing on 6-7 foot bases in 55 degrees last April 21st.
Now that I've whet your appetite
Yes, you certainly have! I was thinking ski season will probably be over for us with the trip to UT, but maybe not... Have to see how broke we are when we get back fro UT, and if the conditions in your neck of the woods might warrant a trip north for some spring skiing. If so, I'll definitely be in touch!
I remember last Easter. I was home, babying my still-aching knees, having long since given up trying to ski for the season. My SO and his daughter headed north for a long weekend, right into all that late snow! I was drooling when he called me from VT and described the conditions. Let's hope we get an encore this year!
In the past, I've gone to Shawnee after work on Wednesdays to do a few hours of night skiing, and that was far more tolerable. I think I'll go back to Wednesdays. The school ski clubs that go on that night are much smaller in numbers--no charter buses or anything, and they're packing up to leave by 7 or 7:30, which gives me almost 2 hours of having the mountain pretty much to myself. I can also check the other nearby area, Camelback, to see what kind of crowds they draw during the week for night skiing. It's a little bit farther to drive there, but still very doable on a weeknight. Crowds and rudeness aside, there's something special about night skiing that I just love. Especially when there's a very light bit of snow coming down the whole time, which has happened a few times for me.
persee
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Mmmmm... I love Sugarloaf! Only skiied there once - a Saturday in February no less - and it was just great. The attitude was so much nicer there than at Sunday River.
We've pretty much decided that we won't ski the bigger areas (Sunday River, Loon, etc) on weekends because the crowds are too insane and thusly the number of obnoxious a-holes regardless of age is too great. Smaller areas - Bolton Valley, Black Mountain in NH, Cranmore are still good on those days, and much cheaper! However I'm always torn on promoting these areas since the more people know about them, the more likely it is that they will inherit the problems.
We've pretty much decided that we won't ski the bigger areas (Sunday River, Loon, etc) on weekends because the crowds are too insane and thusly the number of obnoxious a-holes regardless of age is too great. Smaller areas - Bolton Valley, Black Mountain in NH, Cranmore are still good on those days, and much cheaper! However I'm always torn on promoting these areas since the more people know about them, the more likely it is that they will inherit the problems.
SnowEssie
Certified Ski Diva
Hi all,
I must admit I have not been skiing in France for more than 10 years but I ski in Europe (makes sense when you live there ) (Switzerland and Austria) and I really don't recognize the exceptional rudeness thing except for the buses with youngsters in the weekend with not enought adult supervision, but that is the same everywhere I think?
This topic brings me to another topic somewhere on the forum which has amazed me. The locking your ski-thing. I have never ever seen one nor heard from them before. Nobody speaks about them; its not being written about in the magazine of Dutch Ski Association; I've never seen them in the shops.
I suppose there will be places in Europe where locks are needed also but I have no idea where that would be.
In fact all the stories about the thefts are holding me back a bit to even consider to maybe go skiing in the States for a change (that and the fact that most mountains seem to be below 800 meter which I did not know
)
Anyway
be assured there are lots of places in Europe where you will not be offended by rude behaviour 
I must admit I have not been skiing in France for more than 10 years but I ski in Europe (makes sense when you live there
) (Switzerland and Austria) and I really don't recognize the exceptional rudeness thing except for the buses with youngsters in the weekend with not enought adult supervision, but that is the same everywhere I think? This topic brings me to another topic somewhere on the forum which has amazed me. The locking your ski-thing. I have never ever seen one nor heard from them before. Nobody speaks about them; its not being written about in the magazine of Dutch Ski Association; I've never seen them in the shops.
I suppose there will be places in Europe where locks are needed also but I have no idea where that would be.
In fact all the stories about the thefts are holding me back a bit to even consider to maybe go skiing in the States for a change (that and the fact that most mountains seem to be below 800 meter which I did not know
)Anyway
be assured there are lots of places in Europe where you will not be offended by rude behaviour 
Robyn
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You know, when coaching one of my biggest goals is to teach my kiddos (5 and 6 years old) lift line etiquette. They know, even this early n the season that the quickest way to get in trouble is to mess around in the lift line. They shouldn't be wacking their poles against the crowd control barriers, they shouldn't be throwing snow around, they must alternate or wait for front row to be called, etc. But let me tell you, if I catch kids using bad language around them I'll call 'em on it. If I make the kids respect everyone in line I think I should be able to ask for that respect back. Fortunately, I don't have a big problem at Copper but will on our race days at Keystone and Breck.
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Just got back from a delightful day at Sugarloaf, but it was BUSY. I mean, day parking lots were filled by 9 a.m., and people were parking on the mile-long access road to the resort ! (Shuttle buses pick them up, which is great - day lots, too.) Confirming what I know and love about this place: even on the busiest of days, lift-line and on-slope etiquette was first rate -- not a single time all day did I have to as much as grumble under my breath (which I'm known to do when manners go awry). Bravo, Sugarloaf. A busy day is a challenge to all - and manners of others (or lack thereof) can make it either fine or awful. Was good today!
! (Shuttle buses pick them up, which is great - day lots, too.) Confirming what I know and love about this place: even on the busiest of days, lift-line and on-slope etiquette was first rate -- not a single time all day did I have to as much as grumble under my breath (which I'm known to do when manners go awry). Bravo, Sugarloaf. A busy day is a challenge to all - and manners of others (or lack thereof) can make it either fine or awful. Was good today!
MaineSkiLady
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
SnowEssie, we sure don't want to discourage you from coming here! The US Rocky Mountains, and the Sierra Nevada, have some of the best snow in the world! We didn't mean to scare you! I must admit that the theft risk depends on where I ski - most places are just fine.I suppose there will be places in Europe where locks are needed also but I have no idea where that would be.
In fact all the stories about the thefts are holding me back a bit to even consider to maybe go skiing in the States for a change (that and the fact that most mountains seem to be below 800 meter which I did not know
As for the 800 meters, do you mean the base elevation or the vertical rise? Because many resorts have more than 800 meters vertical rise. (Even my home area, Sugarloaf, in Maine.) The quality of the snow and the ways the runs are set up at most of the large resorts in the US Rockies is quite wonderful - I assure you that you can get VERY VERY tired skiing these runs!
If nothing else, come for the snow, this is the best snow in the world.
In fact all the stories about the thefts are holding me back a bit to even consider to maybe go skiing in the States for a change (that and the fact that most mountains seem to be below 800 meter which I did not know
Anyway
I dunno - if I were in Europe, the exchange rate itself would be enough to get me over to the US for some skiing.
