Backseat skiing

[EAS78]

Looking for advice. I've been skiing most of my life and have never had an issue with quads burning...until now. I was complaining about my very fatigued legs and so my friends analyzed my skiing. Verdict: backseat skiiing and (embarrassed to say) a bit of snowploughing! The day they observed me was a good snow day...not super deep pow but pretty decent coverage. I've gone out approx 12 days this year, touring and resort, mainly resort and most of these days I've had quads burning within first run. No new gear. My boots are Scarpa Gea RS ( bought in 2020) and i use them for all skiing. I've had no serious falls that would make me nervous, don't fear the hill, skiing blues and blacks. One other thing I've noticed is my skiis tend to cross at times.
Since the backseat skiing is new I'm at a loss as to why I've regressed and would appreciate any advice!

 

[shadoj]

Hi & welcome! Where do you usually ski?

Let's check out the culprits:
1. Equipment -- given that it's the same as last year, unless the liners are starting to pack out... see #2.
2. Your body -- have you changed shape/size/fitness/flexibility? Do you still have as much dorsiflexion as last year? Stretching those hip flexors/IT bands?
3. Technique -- the burning quads and crossing tips are a backseat symptom of not driving/pressuring the skis through their shovels. Heavier/deeper snow multiplies inefficient techniques It's hard to guess what's going on by words alone; there are multiple "ways" to be in the backseat. Have any videos?
4. Mental aspect -- you seem confident, which should help your technique.

5. What other parts of your skiing are working/feeling good for you?
6. When was the last time you took a lesson?

Hoping some other wonderful instructor-type divas will chime in.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Shadoj is spot on with the questions. New skis? Did someone borrow them and set return bindings a few cm off? Different snow? Those can all also affect our body position.

I have seen some students have some weird issues skiing after their first rounds of covid infections. I know this sounds whacky, but I wonder if there was a temporary neuro balance or strength issue. Both have since returned to normal skiing selves. In no way scientifically valid observations, but this was what they attributed the odd challenges to.

 

[shadoj]

@EAS78 Do you do any warm-up green runs at the start of your ski day? Some hopping, shuffling, drills, and paying attention to a "springy" athletic stance before you hit the blues/blacks? This really helps me loosen up (we're both older than last season, after all); I then micro-adjust my buckles for foot happiness before hitting more challenging terrain. Do you have your head/chest "up" in a confident manner, or are you looking at the weird snow & your ski tips?

Homework: See what you're feeling in your feet/legs on easy terrain next time out. Are you able to make round, C-shaped turns that bring your skis back across the fall line? How are you moving your body and/or pressuring your feet to initiate a turn? When do you feel pressure on your feet during your turn (beginning, middle, end)? Inside or outside foot? On/along the balls of your feet, arch, heel, or a combo? Inside or outside of the foot (big-toe / little-toe edge)?

Stance check drill: let your skis run slightly downhill on a gentle slope. Hockey-stop while keeping your shoulders and belly-button pointed down the fall line. Are you squirting forward (i.e. backseat), or are you able to stop gently (sideslip to a stop) in a corridor down the fall line?

Yes, I am just endless questions! Look forward to hearing back.

One more thing: Maintain your comfortable, slightly-forward athletic stance while standing in the lift line (or standing in general). It makes a big difference.

 

[EAS78]

Thanks for the quick response!
I mainly ski sunshine for resort and kananaskis/Banff for touring.
1. Just tried the boots on again and they don't seem to be packed out. Fit nice and snug.
2. body has changed but would say am more fit than last year.
3. Technique seems to be what's needed for improvement. Hoping to get out to just do groomers and compare difference in deeper snow!
4. Agree, confidence not so much an issue.
5. My last day out everything felt sloppy. But usually feel pretty good on most terrain other than deep, icey moguls. I did get new skis last year mid season and they're longer than what I'm used to. However, that being said never had the issue of quads burning last season.
6. Been forever since I've had a lesson! If i can't get my technique back I'll definitly get a lesson before end of season.
Thanks so much for your insight!!

 

[Pequenita]

One other thing I've noticed is my skiis tend to cross at times.

My skis cross(ed) when one of two things is going on: (1) boot alignment on one leg was off or (2) when I am tired, in the back seat, and try to steer a turn rather than tip the edge <-- also coincides with heavy snow.

 

[EAS78]

Shadoj is spot on with the questions. New skis? Did someone borrow them and set return bindings a few cm off? Different snow? Those can all also affect our body position.

I have seen some students have some weird issues skiing after their first rounds of covid infections. I know this sounds whacky, but I wonder if there was a temporary neuro balance or strength issue. Both have since returned to normal skiing selves. In no way scientifically valid observations, but this was what they attributed the odd challenges to.

Newer skis, but skied second half of last season and no quad burning. No one's used them except me. I never considered covid side effects..definitly a possibility. Also it could be snow...will try some easy groomers my next day out and see how things feel (focus on technique)
Thanks for the response

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Yes the snow is a huge factor. My quads burn in deep snow even when I remind myself to recenter.

 

[EAS78]

@EAS78 Do you do any warm-up green runs at the start of your ski day? Some hopping, shuffling, drills, and paying attention to a "springy" athletic stance before you hit the blues/blacks? This really helps me loosen up (we're both older than last season, after all); I then micro-adjust my buckles for foot happiness before hitting more challenging terrain. Do you have your head/chest "up" in a confident manner, or are you looking at the weird snow & your ski tips?

Homework: See what you're feeling in your feet/legs on easy terrain next time out. Are you able to make round, C-shaped turns that bring your skis back across the fall line? How are you moving your body and/or pressuring your feet to initiate a turn? When do you feel pressure on your feet during your turn (beginning, middle, end)? Inside or outside foot? On/along the balls of your feet, arch, heel, or a combo? Inside or outside of the foot (big-toe / little-toe edge)?

Stance check drill: let your skis run slightly downhill on a gentle slope. Hockey-stop while keeping your shoulders and belly-button pointed down the fall line. Are you squirting forward (i.e. backseat), or are you able to stop gently (sideslip to a stop) in a corridor down the fall line?

Yes, I am just endless questions! Look forward to hearing back.

One more thing: Maintain your comfortable, slightly-forward athletic stance while standing in the lift line (or standing in general). It makes a big difference.

I'm loving the questions and advice!! I definitly did not warm up..went straight to an easy black lol. And I'm no spring chicken ;)
Head and chest are usually up but maybe on this day i was looking at skiis more due to conditions. I will do the homework...this is very helpful thank u again

 

[EAS78]

My skis cross(ed) when one of two things is going on: (1) boot alignment on one leg was off or (2) when I am tired, in the back seat, and try to steer a turn rather than tip the edge <-- also coincides with heavy snow.

Could be boot alignment...any tips on how to align properly? My right foot has a bunion and i often need to readjust the right boot throughout the day due to pressure points.

 

[Pequenita]

Could be boot alignment...any tips on how to align properly?

Make an appointment with a bootfitter to have them evaluate your stance. A footbed might solve an alignment issue buuuut if it doesn't and your alignment is still off, I am not sure how much the Scarpa Gea's soles can be modified if you need boot canting (and I am not sure how safe it is to cant tech bindings, assuming that's what you have?).

 

[Jilly]

I'm loving the questions and advice!! I definitly did not warm up..went straight to an easy black lol. And I'm no spring chicken ;)
Head and chest are usually up but maybe on this day i was looking at skiis more due to conditions. I will do the homework...this is very helpful thank u again

BIG NO! You need to warm up. My favourite warm up is an easy green. I start with some easy carving turns, where I just bounce against the front of the boot, warm up the ankles, knees and hips. Then I have a great balance drill that I do for maybe about 3 turns. As you traverse the slope, bounce/hop on flat skis 3X. On the last bounce, stay there, tips the skis and go round the corner. When you land, you're balanced on the skis and ready to go. After that....it's go and scare the beginners with some high speed crusin.

 

[BlizzardBabe]

Yes the snow is a huge factor. My quads burn in deep snow even when I remind myself to recenter.

I'm so glad to read this. We've had the most horrible season imaginable (almost) in the mid-Atlantic this year and I've skied almost nothing but mashed potato slush over dinner plate ice. I've been blaming myself for occasionally getting thrown too far back and having to constantly adjust my fore/aft balance, but I think much of it is probably attributable to the gawdawful conditions. I'm just hoping I'm not creating "new" bad habits as a result.

And by the way, my tulips are up. IT IS FEBRUARY!!!

 

[shadoj]

I'm so glad to read this. We've had the most horrible season imaginable (almost) in the mid-Atlantic this year and I've skied almost nothing but mashed potato slush over dinner plate ice. I've been blaming myself for occasionally getting thrown too far back and having to constantly adjust my fore/aft balance, but I think much of it is probably attributable to the gawdawful conditions. I'm just hoping I'm not creating "new" bad habits as a result.

And by the way, my tulips are up. IT IS FEBRUARY!!!

I hear ya! Our hill closed due to rain yesterday. Ugh!

Yes, heavy and/or slushy snow is just more work. More surface area in contact with the snow (top AND bottom of ski!) = more friction, snow builds up on top of skis, warmer temps eating wax after a couple runs... plus lots of subtle dynamic balance adjustment in 3D snow. Soft, active knees and ankles get a lot more use. Patient turns and steeper terrain helps, up to a point

 

[EAS78]

BIG NO! You need to warm up. My favourite warm up is an easy green. I start with some easy carving turns, where I just bounce against the front of the boot, warm up the ankles, knees and hips. Then I have a great balance drill that I do for maybe about 3 turns. As you traverse the slope, bounce/hop on flat skis 3X. On the last bounce, stay there, tips the skis and go round the corner. When you land, you're balanced on the skis and ready to go. After that....it's go and scare the beginners with some high speed crusin.

Will for sure do this next time out!! Thanks

 

[EAS78]

Make an appointment with a bootfitter to have them evaluate your stance. A footbed might solve an alignment issue buuuut if it doesn't and your alignment is still off, I am not sure how much the Scarpa Gea's soles can be modified if you need boot canting (and I am not sure how safe it is to cant tech bindings, assuming that's what you have?).

Great idea! And yes have the shift 10 bindings. Thanks for the advice